High School Speed

[ImFrigginFly]

I don't see a difference in speed, I see a difference in schemes, as Nutriaitch said. The athletes are pretty much the same, but if you're watching a Purdue/Northwestern game then turn to a Florida/Auburn game, you HAVE to see the difference.

I don't know what exactly it is, the game speed just seems slightly faster.

Well shit, between those teams, you have to notice the talent difference before anything. You're comparing lower-teir B10 schools (yes, I know Northwestern had a decent record this year) to the 2008-09 National Champs and a mid to upper-teir SEC school. Just sayin'

 

[martinss01]

Cinci, what do you say to my list of elite nfl dts almost exclusively from the south? I don't buy that you can coach a Glenn Dorsey. You can harness his natural gifts, but can't give them to another athlete.

i think your on the right track honestly. no, you can't coach talent. you can however direct that talent to the right sport, position, and provide it with the proper instruction. this is where i think the sec states have really shined as far as the dl is concerned. imo a LOT of guys who would make absolute stud dt's and de's go to other positions on the football field in ohio and other norther schools. its not that schools like tOSU don't stress the importance of the dline as much as an lsu. but rather in the pee wee world the dline is a more sexy position in the south than it is in the north.

the same as a kid who plays cb would look at tOSU and see a brighter future than say psu. i think kids in the south view the dline as a path of success at a much younger age than they do in the north. look at the number of lb's and olinemen ohio produces and compair that number to dlinemen.

there is no speed difference. there is no god given talent difference. the difference is the direction that ability is directed and the quality of instruction provided at a young age. population is obviously a clear factor. a set % of any population will naturally be athletically gifted. the only difference is the access to proper instruction and a viable path to success.

with spread offenses taking root in the north more and more every year and these types of players gaining acceptance in the local colleges. kids are going to start seeing a potential road to success via those positions and you will see a fundamental shift in the paths talent is directed.

 

[cincibuck]

I don't know whether there is a difference in true speed or not between the South and the North. All that I know is that my eyes told me that UF and LSU's DT's and especially DE's were quicker off the ball than tOSU's Olinemen. Whatever you want to chalk it up to, when the RT and LT whiff many times a game on getting out to block opposing DE's something is going on. Now maybe tOSU's Olinemen in those games were just not elite Olinemen and they went up against elite D-linemen from the southern schools, I don't know, but in my opinion, during those two NC games, in the trenches, specially tOSU's offense vs. their defense, there was a quickness and speed difference, benefitting the SEC schools.

Or the blocking technique and play design isn't doing the job. Someone mentioned the obvious line up where the Bucks leave a DE unblocked and where JT says the DE is the quarterbacks responsibility. If true, that's an outrageous plan, inviting disaster.

I think all of us who watched the 07 NC game would state that we expected adjustments in the blocking to be made at halftime and watched in bewilderment as the Bucks continued to line up and block in the same pattern.

That has nothing to do with speed and everything to do with coaching.

 

[Sportsbuck28]

Or the blocking technique and play design isn't doing the job. Someone mentioned the obvious line up where the Bucks leave a DE unblocked and where JT says the DE is the quarterbacks responsibility. If true, that's an outrageous plan, inviting disaster.

I think all of us who watched the 07 NC game would state that we expected adjustments in the blocking to be made at halftime and watched in bewilderment as the Bucks continued to line up and block in the same pattern.

That has nothing to do with speed and everything to do with coaching.

So when Boone consistently got worked that has to do with the coaching?

There's only so much coaching you can do, the players have to execute.

 

[cincibuck]

So when Boone consistently got worked that has to do with the coaching?

There's only so much coaching you can do, the players have to execute.

Yep, and nope. If Boone can't get to the DE on his own then you have to put a tight end on his side, or you can't go empty backfield and you can't double team the tackle.

Someone else on this list cited the repeated interviews with JT in which he was questioned about a formation that left one of the DEs unblocked and JT repeatedly ducked the question, week after week, until the reporter evidently wore him out and he stated that in that formation the DE was the responsibility of the QB. If I'm the QB in that formation I interpret that to mean one of three things, 1. I better zig when he zags, 2. I better get rid of the ball before he gets to me, preferably by throwing to a receiver who fills the area the DE just left, or 3. consult my hymnal.

It's not inheriently bad play design if you have someone who can do 1 or 2, or both.

And yes, when you have a force such as Dorsey you're not going to coach a kid up to iso blocking him one-on-one. Some games are like that.

The point of the thread is that "Southern Speed" has been used to describe the superiority of southern football, ie SEC football, over northern, ie Big 10 football. The argument quickly led to a concession that there was no gene mutation that caused SEC RBs, WRs, DBs and LBs to be faster than their Big 10 counterparts. That is bull shit.

Now its down to "well, the style of play is faster," or "it's the difference in the speed, style, size and inherent ability to 'out mean the other guy' among the defensive linemen (and Jwins certainly presents an impressive list of linemen from the SEC that I can't match with Big 10 athletes).

Maybe that is at the heart of the difference. But I don't think it would show out simply by lining them up and having them go at each other for 40 yards. ie, it ain't speed, it's something else.

Further, aside from this year's results, the Big 10 (Ohio State excepted) has more than held its own against the SEC in bowl games and this despite the fact that all of those contests but one were played in the SEC region and most of the games involved a Big 10 team playing "up," both of which would add to the advantage of the SEC.

I don't see it as a difference in playing style. I don't see SEC football as "wide open," say like the style you see in T. Tech, Mizzou, Kansas, Utah, Oregon, Cal, WVU and Ga Tech. I don't see Big 10 football as still dominated by "3 yards and a cloud of dust."

I do see an Ohio State team that suffered two embarrassing losses in bowl games and one in an OOC game. In one of those games they lost their playmaker/gamebreaker on the opening kickoff and in the next two they got outmanned at each and every position. I might also add that both of those games were decidely "home games" for the opposition.

 

[GrizzlyBuck]

I do see an Ohio State team that suffered two embarrassing losses in bowl games and one in an OOC game. In one of those games they lost their playmaker/gamebreaker on the opening kickoff and in the next two they got outmanned at each and every position. I might also add that both of those games were decidely "home games" for the opposition.

Agreed, I know UF crushed tOSU, but losing Ginn, in my opinion had a huge affect on the outcome of the game. I think everyone over looks this with the old, one guy can't win or lose a game. While I'm not saying tOSU wins with Ginn, not only was his loss devastating mentally, but allowed UF to change their coverages and pressure schemes, and made tOSU make major changes as well. Ginn stretched the field horizontally and vertically and if you have to put your second corner man to man on Gonzo, or 3rd corner man to man on Robo, good luck with that. TS would have been in a much better position to take care of that unblocked DE (I know he wasn't supposed to be unblocked, but uhhhhh), with the recievers having better matchups, therefore being open earlier. Having Ginn also could have forced the Safeties deeper, opening up the run even more (worked pretty well anyway, until it was abandoned)

Add to that, a major reason tOSU got crushed was because of the soft zone D they played which allowed Leak to pick them apart, that's not speed, it's scheme and execution.

Against LSU and USC, the Bucks seemed overmatched in the trenches and didn't have playmakers (except Beanie vs LSU) to make any difference. The difference in the trenches may have been speed, it sure looked like it against UF and USC (Dorsey wasn't faster, just a Beast) but to simply chalk the losses up to a difference in speed, as the media has done is simply a lazy man's way to get out of actually looking at the games and doing analysis, and not just marching lockstep with the espIn trash.