High School Speed

[cincibuck]

So where does all that Southern Speed come from? Damned if I know. Here's a composit I made of the results from 5 state track meets last year. If you see a dramatic difference let me know.

2008 State Track Finals 100 M Dash:

Georgia:
Classification: AAAA
100 METER DASH

Place Name School Time Points
1 Dangelo Cherry Mt. Zion, Jonesboro (4-AAAA) 10.330 10
2 Branden Smith Washington (6-AAAA) 10.560 8
3 Dominique Hubert Eastside (8-AAAA) 10.700 6
4 Drayton Calhoun Tucker (6-AAAA) 10.770 4
5 Anthony Riley Bainbridge (1-AAAA) 10.920 2
6 Johnathan Finch Evans (3-AAAA) 11.000 1
7 Evan Gillette Sequoyah (5-AAAA) 11.020 0
8 Joshua Clemons Whitewater (2-AAAA) 11.080 0

Texas 2A
Finals Wind Points
============================================================================
Finals
1 RJ Evans San Antonio Cole 10.65 3.1 10
2 Aarrhon Flores Floydada 10.71 3.1 8
3 Jeremy Brown Whitewright 10.75 3.1 6
4 Duke Truitt Mart 10.78 3.1 4
5 Kennan Henry Early 10.86 3.1 2
6 Dustin Thompson Edna 11.00 3.1 1
7 Jarvarious Tatum Tatum 11.07 3.1
8 Larry Ellis Pottsboro 11.25 3.1

Florida:
Name Year School Finals Wind
=====================================================================
Finals
1 Locke, Dentarius 11 Chamberlain 10.72 -2.1
2 Farlow, Larry 11 Central 10.89 -2.1
3 robinson, denard 11 Deerfield Beach 10.92 -2.1
4 McRoy, Javares 09 Lakeland 10.97 -2.1
5 Steward, Jeremy 12 Flagler Palm Coa 11.13 -2.1
6 Reyna, Carlos 12 Columbus 11.14 -2.1
7 Jones, Samuel 12 Santaluces 11.21 -2.1
8 Debose, Andre 11 Seminole 11.75 -2.1

Tennessee:
Finals
1 Myricks, Johnny Ooltewah 10.97 -1.5 10
2 Scales, Chaz 11 Centennial 11.02 -1.5 8 .0139
3 Gray, D'Angelo 11 Stratford J11.02 -1.5 6 .0169
4 Marshall, Brian Ooltewah 11.03 -1.5 5 .0230
5 Jackson, Raymond 11 Centennial J11.03 -1.5 4 .0261
6 Brooks, Roland 12 Memphis Overton 11.14 -1.5 3
7 Sensabaugh, Adrian 12 Dobyns-Bennett 11.18 -1.5 2
8 Sanders, Derrion 12 White Station 11.21 -1.5 1

Ohio

1 774 James Allen 12 Young. East 10.77 - .9 = 9.8 100 yds
2 184 Carlin Isles 12 Massillon Ja 10.78 8
3 215 Princeton Bryson 12 Tol. Bowsher 10.84 6
4 730 DeVier Posey 12 Cin. LaSalle 10.87 5
5 305 Mark Mays 11 Clayton Nort 10.87 4
6 401 Ryan Jones 12 Day. Thurgoo 10.93 3
7 250 Blake Callahan 12 Col. Whetsto 10.98 2
8 741 Kendall Owens 12 Cin. LaSalle 11.14 1 = 10.24 100 yds

 

[Sportsbuck28]

For around the 10 millionth time, there is little difference between the skill position players as far as speed is concerned.

The difference lies in the big men and the rest of the trenches...

 

[BigWoof31]

What's the correlation with these track times and the blue chippers that are signing in two days? How many play football?

 

[jimotis4heisman]

What's the correlation with these track times and the blue chippers that are signing in two days? How many play football?

in ohio posey plays for the buckeyes. he was a blue chip wr.

sb28-ive always felt the difference was in the guys not in the speed. sec lbs being more of the rolle mold not as much in carp, animal, etc. de being more of the wilson, heyward than the will smith/derrick harvey mold. teams tend to play guys who are a tad smaller and thus quicker. but hey ive always felt that guys 15lbs heavier helped win games when the weather changed...

 

[cincibuck]

What's the correlation with these track times and the blue chippers that are signing in two days? How many play football?

Must be some because I saw many football coaches at the state meet over the years. Especially around the dashes and the shot. I could just as easily listed the finishes in shot put and again you would see very little difference.

My point is that if there were a regional difference in speed, if there really was something like "Southern Speed," it would surely be bourne out in the 100 finals.

You might also ask yourself about the correlation between the number of kids JT has signed from Cleveland Glenville (many of them on that school's track team) and the fact that the school is a track powerhouse.

 

[BayBuck]

Must be some because I saw many football coaches at the state meet over the years. Especially around the dashes and the shot. I could just as easily listed the finishes in shot put and again you would see very little difference.

My point is that if there were a regional difference in speed, if there really was something like "Southern Speed," it would surely be bourne out in the 100 finals.

You might also ask yourself about the correlation between the number of kids JT has signed from Cleveland Glenville (many of them on that school's track team) and the fact that the school is a track powerhouse.

Well of course there are fast players everywhere, many of whom also play football (each state you listed includes some FB prospects), but you have not addressed the other responses in this thread which suggest the speed difference takes place in the trenches, not at the typical speed positions.

 

[Sportsbuck28]

in ohio posey plays for the buckeyes. he was a blue chip wr.

sb28-ive always felt the difference was in the guys not in the speed. sec lbs being more of the rolle mold not as much in carp, animal, etc. de being more of the wilson, heyward than the will smith/derrick harvey mold. teams tend to play guys who are a tad smaller and thus quicker. but hey ive always felt that guys 15lbs heavier helped win games when the weather changed...

IMO the difference is that the SEC teams don't need to go to smaller guys for more quickness...

 

[sandgk]

IMO the difference is that the SEC teams don't need to go to smaller guys for more quickness...

I'm not sure how this jives with the extensive and impeccable research of noted biochemist and bio-hazards expert Dr. Walter Van de Grop - SEC Speed Explained at Last

It's clear from Walter's work that the SEC (the Big 10, Oklahoma, WVU and Michigan?!?) hosts States that are breeding grounds for big, fast athletes, and it is all about how obese the State populations truly are:

One of the grand unified theory challenges in college football is explaining not only why the SEC is perceived as being ?faster? than other conferences, but also, why Michigan, Oklahoma, and West Virginia could hang with the perceived speed of the SEC.
We?ve uncovered the real reason behind it, but it requires some theoretical background.
:: ::
Sexual intercourse is far more athletic than one might realize: a test not only of willpower, concentration, and aerobic capacity, but also of explosiveness, grip, and hip flexibility. If athletes are indeed receiving similar training, then the margins of extracurricular training must factor in, as well.
This brings us to the ten fattest states in the United States as determined by biodata compiled last week from the CDC?s Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System database. Eight of the top ten states have schools in the SEC, leading us to propose the theory of three-plane core training unwittingly performed during sexual intercourse. We hope this represents a bold new frontier of study in biomechanics, and provides new and exciting answers just like my former research with puppies and mustard gas. I mean, with the migratory patterns of African elephants!

So there you have it. Fatness rules when looking for speedy football players of any size. Counter-intuitive, yes. But it is clearly the product of rigorous research ... with diagrams and everything, so, it must be true.

 

[stxbuck]

Andre Debose-UF commit-bigtime WR recruit-I simply can't believe he only ran an 11.75-he must have fallen or something. Also, the times for the Texas schools are all from the equivalent of Div-4/5 schools in Ohio-I'm sure the big boys from Dallas and Houston were faster. That said, Southern DL are bigger, faster, and meaner than their Northern counterparts-I will believe this till my dying day-RBs, WRs-no speed difference. Big boys-huge difference.

 

[cincibuck]

I'm getting some curious responses here. For a group that thinks OSU football is among the top five programs in the US you folks seem to find it hard to believe that Ohio results in speed tests match up with Texas (and yeah, that's the Texas big schools), Florida, Georgia and Tennessee. Further, at least in the case of Georgia and Texas, it is not unusual to find 19 year olds competing because they were deliberately held out of Kindergarten so that they would be bigger and faster in high school.

Go back to the bowl game postings of 07, 06 and 05, when Big 10 teams did very well (with the exception of OSU and Michigan.) Are you suddenly convinced that SEC linemen are bigger, faster, meaner than kids from Ohio and other Northern states?

I'm really confused. First you complain about those who cite "SEC speed" and say it's a myth, then you turn around and say, "Well, RBs, WRs and DBs are just as fast, but the Big 10 has slow linemen."

Was last night's Super Bowl dominated by "Southern Speed?" If so, what the hell were Gabe Watson and LaMar Woodley doing out there?

Go through NFL rosters and prove to me that Big 10 linemen can't compete with linemen from the Big 12 and SEC.

OSU may have been out coached in one game and out talented in the other bowl game, but "Southern Speed," regardless of position, is a myth.

 

[jwinslow]

Go back to the bowl game postings of 07, 06 and 05, when Big 10 teams did very well (with the exception of OSU and Michigan.) Are you suddenly convinced that SEC linemen are bigger, faster, meaner than kids from Ohio and other Northern states?

The SEC is littered with ultra-talented interior linemen. The b10 has very few.

Was last night's Super Bowl dominated by "Southern Speed?" If so, what the hell were Gabe Watson and LaMar Woodley doing out there?

LB and DT are two completely different things, and Gabe Watson is a very spotty player. He's no Dockett.

Dockett, Stroud, Haynesworth, Wilfolk, Harris, Henderson, Hampton, Pat Williams, Kevin Williams, Jamal Williams, Rogers, Kelly, Seymour, etc.

The north has who? Kris Jenkins, who didn't play b10 ball. Lots of underachieving bigs from MI like Watson. There may be one or two I'm missing, but the trend is quite obvious.

Compare that to the volume of talent the north produces at the skill positions.

Go through NFL rosters and prove to me that Big 10 linemen can't compete with linemen from the Big 12 and SEC.

LSU single-handedly had better DTs vs OSU than the entire b10 conference. Georgia, Tennessee & Florida also produce talented interior linemen.

 

[Basebuck]

No statistical evidence but after living in Texas for a few years I can tell you that football never ends here. There are constant 7 on 7 camps, outdoor practices, outdoor conditioning, etc. While Ohio kids are forced to be indoors right now because of weather, the kids down here are running sprints outdoors in 75 degree weather.

I don't care what position the kid is playing, it has to make a difference being able to run and work out outside year round. Not many schools have good enough facilities up north to simulate an outdoor environment.

It's also kind of tricky using the state meets as a baseline. I know in Texas the fastest kid faulted in Districts. Who knows what the weather was like in each state too.

 

[BUCKYLE]

No statistical evidence but after living in Texas for a few years I can tell you that football never ends here. There are constant 7 on 7 camps, outdoor practices, outdoor conditioning, etc. While Ohio kids are forced to be indoors right now because of weather, the kids down here are running sprints outdoors in 75 degree weather.

I don't care what position the kid is playing, it has to make a difference being able to run and work out outside year round. Not many schools have good enough facilities up north to simulate an outdoor environment.

It's also kind of tricky using the state meets as a baseline. I know in Texas the fastest kid faulted in Districts. Who knows what the weather was like in each state too.

Well, I played for a...mmm...decent program up here in Ohio, and I can tell you, we had our asses outside in the snow. Not necessaraly running seven on sevens, but we had one month off after the end of the season. Then, straight into winter conditioning. Running outside in the snow all year long.

 

[cincibuck]

No statistical evidence but after living in Texas for a few years I can tell you that football never ends here. There are constant 7 on 7 camps, outdoor practices, outdoor conditioning, etc. While Ohio kids are forced to be indoors right now because of weather, the kids down here are running sprints outdoors in 75 degree weather.

I don't care what position the kid is playing, it has to make a difference being able to run and work out outside year round. Not many schools have good enough facilities up north to simulate an outdoor environment.

You've obviously not been around programs in Ohio such as the GCL, Elder, St. X, Moeller and LaSalle, or St. Eds and Ignatius in Cleveland or some of the public programs in Colerain, Centerville. Wayne, Massillon, Canton McKinley. As the Kirk Herbsreit series has shown, those teams can stay on the field with the best from any state.

It's also kind of tricky using the state meets as a baseline. I know in Texas the fastest kid faulted in Districts. Who knows what the weather was like in each state too.

The weather was listed in each of the records. All five meets ran in good weather. Wind was not enough to cause an asterisk by the times. Shit happens. In 1998 it rained and the two best High Jumpers in Ohio, one who had jumped 6'11 and one who had jumped 6'10 the week before no heighted and the winner was some kid who cleared 6'6 for the first time in his life.

I don't buy that there is a gene pool in the south that produces faster linemen, but mysteriously doesn't produce a pronounced difference in in DBs, RBs, WRs and LBs.

I would be willing to accept that there are pronounced differences in population between the South and the states that make up the Big 10.

I would buy into the fact that track is better supported, bigger in the South, SEC and Big 12 and that this shows up in pole vault, high jump, long jump.

I would buy into the notion that there are lower admission standards to SEC schools, other than Vandy and Florida, than we see in the Big 10.

I would also want to look at how linemen are coached and see if there is a difference between technique in the Southern schools and technique used in the North. Coaches are slow to change. Most copy whatever the best teams in the conference are doing. They may borrow a play or two, but something like the Spread, the Hurry UP, the West Coast Offense, the Wildcat or the Wishbone take a long time to become common. Most of these are designed by a coach from a smaller football school who needs something to offset the talent difference. Case(s) in point T. Tech, Mizzou and Kansas in the Big 12, Vandy in the SEC, Northwestern in the Big 10.

 

[Basebuck]

You've obviously not been around programs in Ohio such as the GCL, Elder, St. X, Moeller and LaSalle, or St. Eds and Ignatius in Cleveland or some of the public programs in Colerain, Centerville. Wayne, Massillon, Canton McKinley. As the Kirk Herbsreit series has shown, those teams can stay on the field with the best from any state.

My point had nothing to do with the best schools, more to do with the middle of the road schools. I would not say that the schools you mentioned fall under the "most" category.

I don't buy that there is a gene pool in the south that produces faster linemen, but mysteriously doesn't produce a pronounced difference in in DBs, RBs, WRs and LBs.

I don't buy the gene pool theory either. However, I do think that it makes a difference that kids are outside in nice weather 12 months out of the year. Hell, even outdoor track is year round down here.

I would also want to look at how linemen are coached and see if there is a difference between technique in the Southern schools and technique used in the North. .

I think you may have hit on the biggest thing here. Southern schools don't have to prepare to play in the terrible weather. They can play a faster style of offense and defense. There is no reason to pound the ball when you can get the ball to guys who can take it the distance every play.