High School Speed

[jimotis4heisman]

IMO the difference is that the SEC teams don't need to go to smaller guys for more quickness...

look at the size of the guys, they are typically lighter lbs, des and often times shorter.

no one has discussed us population and demo shifts... that certianly plays a role.

 

[Gatorubet]

Nah Cinci, we just want it more. <ducking>


:p

 

[buchtelgrad04]

I played a year of high school football in Texas. I went to Mayde Creek, they're the main rival to powerhouse Katy. I had a football "class". It would be right after lunch, where we would just do nothing but practice. The overall competition is the same as here in Ohio, but the resources in Texas are more abundant. We had morning practice before school, football "class" (I think it was called something like 'football fundemental studies' but only the players on the team could take the "class") and regular after school practice.

 

[Basebuck]

I know that the majority of the top three divisions have "wellness coordinators" that just work on speed and conditioning for the football team. Most head coaches make well into 6 figures as well

 

[Gatorubet]

Look at our population stats. More kids playing year round. MANY more than before.

 

[Nutriaitch]

"Southern Speed," regardless of position, is a myth.

You're looking at it differently than I always have.
It's about styles of play, not speed of individual players.

Northern teams tend to play a more physical style of game.
They practice and train to overpower their opponent and push them around on the lines, while RBs are out there training to stiff arm and break tackles. This means you need stronger LBs to take on a fullback or power runner in the hole. WR's tend to be a lil bigger so they can block downfield as often as possible. This forces defenses to find CBs with the strenth to battle these WRs instead of the speed to keep up.


Whereas southern teams tend to run a faster paced scheme.
Lineman need to be quick and agile, because defenses are more trying to beat you off the line than push you backwards. RBs are more taught to beat a guy to the corner and make him miss instead of Bowling him over.
So now, your linebackers have to be fast enough to catch a RB instead of just strong enough to blow up a blocking FB. WRs are running quick slants and timing routes and turning the game into a track meet, forcing teams to find quicker DBs to help disrupt that.


Of course there are exceptions on both sides of this, and some freaks of nature that dominate in either style.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

I know that the majority of the top three divisions have "wellness coordinators" that just work on speed and conditioning for the football team. Most head coaches make well into 6 figures as well

i think you might be suprised how many ohio coaches in hs get a nice chunk of change...

 

[jwinslow]

Cinci, what do you say to my list of elite nfl dts almost exclusively from the south? I don't buy that you can coach a Glenn Dorsey. You can harness his natural gifts, but can't give them to another athlete.

Texas churns out athletic tackles regularly. For all of ohio's talent they just don't come along very often.

Do our athletic bigs end up at offensive tackle or in basketball? Or do we simply not have that many born here?

Is southern food more conducive to beefing up? when they finish playing football, are they drawn there? :p

 

[cincibuck]

no one has discussed us population and demo shifts... that certianly plays a role.

Well, yes I did:

I would be willing to accept that there are pronounced differences in population between the South and the states that make up the Big 10.

and here's an interesting stat to think about: The Mean Population Center, a statistical location at which there are as many people North, South, East and West of the US has moved steadily South and West, especially since 1950. This graph is from 2000 and given what has happened to American heavy industry (formerly an asset of the Midwest) in the last 8 years I can't imagine that the figure has imporved.

1900 Bartholomew County, Indiana 6 miles southeast of Columbus.

39?09′36″N 85?48′54″W / 39.16000?N 85.81500?W / 39.16000; 85.81500
1910 Monroe County, Indiana in the city of Bloomington.

39?10′12″N 86?32′20″W / 39.17000?N 86.53889?W / 39.17000; 86.53889
1920 Owen County, Indiana 8 miles south-southeast of Spencer.

39?10′21″N 86?43′15″W / 39.17250?N 86.72083?W / 39.17250; 86.72083
1930 Greene County, Indiana3 miles northeast of Linton.

39?03′45″N 87?08′06″W / 39.06250?N 87.13500?W / 39.06250; 87.13500
1940 Sullivan County, Indiana2 miles southeast by east of Carlisle.

38?56′54″N 87?22′35″W / 38.94833?N 87.37639?W / 38.94833; 87.37639
1950 Richland County, Illinois 3.)8 miles north-northwest of Olney. 3.)

38?50′21″N 88?09′33″W / 38.83917?N 88.15917?W / 38.83917; 88.15917 3.)
1950 Clay County, Illinois 4.)3 miles northeast of Louisville. 4.)

38?48′15″N 88?22′08″W / 38.80417?N 88.36889?W / 38.80417; 88.36889 4.)
1960 Clinton County, Illinois 5.)6-1/2 miles northwest of Centralia. 5.)

38?35′58″N 89?12′35″W / 38.59944?N 89.20972?W / 38.59944; 89.20972 5.)
1970 St. Clair County, Illinois5 miles east-southeast of Mascoutah.

38?27′47″N 89?42′22″W / 38.46306?N 89.70611?W / 38.46306; 89.70611
1980 Jefferson County, Missouri1/4 mile west of DeSoto.

38?08′13″N 90?34′26″W / 38.13694?N 90.57389?W / 38.13694; 90.57389
1990 Crawford County, Missouri9.7 miles southeast of Steelville.

37?52′20″N 91?12′55″W / 37.87222?N 91.21528?W / 37.87222; 91.21528
2000 Phelps County, Missouri2.8 miles east of Edgar Springs

37?41′49″N 91?48′34″W / 37.696987?N 91.809567?W / 37.696987; 91.809567 [4]

In other words, since 1900 the US population center has shifted from Central Indiana to the Middle of Missouri. Add this to Gatorubet's graph and you may have a partial answer.

Other items that might be in play: loss of athletes to soccer, lacross and volleyball in the North. Tougher admission standards at the schools in the Big 10 in comparison to SEC schools (excepting Vandy and Florida). lax rules or enforcement of rules that limit coaching contact with kids during the off season in southern states...

I simply don't buy that there is a statistical measurement, aside from population numbers, that demonstrates a significant difference between kids in the SEC/Big 12 states and those from the Big 10 states. They (southern players) may benefit from a bigger talent pool, from different academic requirements, from lax rules or lack of enforcement of rules, but they're not inherently faster.

 

[cincibuck]

You're looking at it differently than I always have.
It's about styles of play, not speed of individual players.

Northern teams tend to play a more physical style of game.
They practice and train to overpower their opponent and push them around on the lines, while RBs are out there training to stiff arm and break tackles. This means you need stronger LBs to take on a fullback or power runner in the hole. WR's tend to be a lil bigger so they can block downfield as often as possible. This forces defenses to find CBs with the strenth to battle these WRs instead of the speed to keep up.


Whereas southern teams tend to run a faster paced scheme.
Lineman need to be quick and agile, because defenses are more trying to beat you off the line than push you backwards. RBs are more taught to beat a guy to the corner and make him miss instead of Bowling him over.
So now, your linebackers have to be fast enough to catch a RB instead of just strong enough to blow up a blocking FB. WRs are running quick slants and timing routes and turning the game into a track meet, forcing teams to find quicker DBs to help disrupt that.


Of course there are exceptions on both sides of this, and some freaks of nature that dominate in either style.

Before Miami blistered Nebraska in an NC game I would have agreed with you. A couple of years later and Nebraska had speed all over the field... and they still had strength and bulk. 07 Arkansas damn near won the SEC with a pathetic passing game and McFadden.

I'm not a football coach, just an average fan, but I honestly don't see a difference between an SEC game and a Big 10 game in terms of athleticism, size or speed of play. Add the Big 12 and the only significant difference I see is Texas Tech, possibly Mizzou, and again it's a difference driven by the need to make up for talent inequities.

I think he weather issue is way overblown. The Buckeyes play all but one or two games each year in much the same weather as SEC teams. You get more rain and high winds, we get a more cold and a rare snow game.

We play our bowl games on the road, you play yours at home. That's about it for differences.

 

[Nutriaitch]

Before Miami blistered Nebraska in an NC game I would have agreed with you. A couple of years later and Nebraska had speed all over the field... and they still had strength and bulk. 07 Arkansas damn near won the SEC with a pathetic passing game and McFadden.

I'm not a football coach, just an average fan, but I honestly don't see a difference between an SEC game and a Big 10 game in terms of athleticism, size or speed of play. Add the Big 12 and the only significant difference I see is Texas Tech, possibly Mizzou, and again it's a difference driven by the need to make up for talent inequities.

I do see a difference in styles.
I don't watch as many Big Ten games as y'all do, so I may be wrong completely.

The running games seem to be a lot more up the middle/off tackle oriented. Passing game seems to be based off of precise routes, where receivers run more complete routes, and the QB makes all of the decisions.

Southern teams seem to run a lot more sweeps, drwas, and option type running plays. Pass plays are a lot of crosses screens and slants, where the WR does most of the work instead of the QBs


It may not seem like a big difference, but it's a difference.
Line al of these guys up on a field and ask them to race in a straight line on a track, and there probably ain't much difference position by position.

But when you see both on the same field, any speed based play tends to favor the team that does nothing but practice those styles plays all year long. And guys like Beanie can stiff arm Chevis Jackson like he was lil school girl, because Beanie has done nothing but train for a physical style, while Jackson is more accustomed to just having to catch guys.

I think he weather issue is way overblown. The Buckeyes play all but one or two games each year in much the same weather as SEC teams. You get more rain and high winds, we get a more cold and a rare snow game.

We play our bowl games on the road, you play yours at home. That's about it for differences.

during the regular season, you are correct.
In January (postseason time) the weather difference is quite large.

 

[cincibuck]

I know that the majority of the top three divisions have "wellness coordinators" that just work on speed and conditioning for the football team. Most head coaches make well into 6 figures as well

I don't know about HS coaches making in the six figures in Ohio, but I was making $70 K, masters + 30, 30 years of experience, when I retired. If I had remained a head coach for Track and crosscountry I would have been damn close to 100K and I was in a district that paid somewhere in the middle of Hamilton County's (Cincinnati) public school pay scale. I would imagine the big suburban districts could put a coach well into the 6 figure bracket.

And yeah, we had a team trainer and an S&C guy who monitored any athlete if the coach took the time to work with him and tell him what he wanted his athletes to do. I used to open up the indoor facility before school and do run throughs for the jumpers and vaulters to get their steps down. It's not like the coaches up here are working in the 1960s.

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

The dangers of high school speed are widely known:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljtuGoIIKGs]YouTube - saved by the bell[/ame]

 

[GrizzlyBuck]

I don't know whether there is a difference in true speed or not between the South and the North. All that I know is that my eyes told me that UF and LSU's DT's and especially DE's were quicker off the ball than tOSU's Olinemen. Whatever you want to chalk it up to, when the RT and LT whiff many times a game on getting out to block opposing DE's something is going on. Now maybe tOSU's Olinemen in those games were just not elite Olinemen and they went up against elite D-linemen from the southern schools, I don't know, but in my opinion, during those two NC games, in the trenches, specially tOSU's offense vs. their defense, there was a quickness and speed difference, benefitting the SEC schools.

 

[buchtelgrad04]

I don't see a difference in speed, I see a difference in schemes, as Nutriaitch said. The athletes are pretty much the same, but if you're watching a Purdue/Northwestern game then turn to a Florida/Auburn game, you HAVE to see the difference.

I don't know what exactly it is, the game speed just seems slightly faster.