Guiton vs Bauserman

[3074326]

You've clearly have never seen Jonathon Crompton play quarterback

Throwing a pick is bad, but you can theoretically do worse, it could have been a pick 6 or some sort of a fumble

Seriously though, just because Bauserman throws an int doesn't mean he's the more prone to make mistakes with the ball, just means he threw an int.

I'm talking about his entire career. He's never looked remotely confident in the pocket, other than against EMU, which is probably the worst defense we've played since he's been here.

He just looks bad. I hate to say it, not trying to bash, but I'm tired of beating around the bush. He doesn't look like he should be playing QB at a school as big as Ohio State.

 

[billmac91]

That was my whole argument. I provided facts that showed Guiton had zero passing experience in a true game.

People bring up mobility, guess what happened? They ignored my statistical evidence that showed Guiton and JB were nearly identical in rushing stats.

Somehow even when you give stats people still revert that they know better than the coaches and cling to "they think". Whatever.

1. Kenny G was picked ahead of JB during the spring game draft by his teammates. A statement by the team that they thought Guiton was a more effective QB.

2. Kenny looked significantly better in the spring game. That isn't debatable.

3. JB looked shaky at best during mop-up time last year.

4. You can run the same offense with Kenny that you do with Terrelle, which simplifies things for the entire offense. Advantage KG.

We (message board posters) don't really owe anything to KG and JB, we are just stating opinions. One of coach Tressel's best traits is his loyalty to players. He, and the coaching staff talked JB out of transferring last year and this year. To move a RS Freshman above him on the depth chart would be gut-wrenching to JB. The fair thing to do to JB is give him first crack at Terrelle's job should something happen.

That being said, I wouldn't expect that opportunity to last long should he continue to lob balls 10 yards over the receivers head on an ill-advised throw across his body.

I won't question the coaches decesions, and I hope JB steps up the next time he gets a chance. But all things being equal, after what I've seen based on spring game scrimmages, mop-up duty, and practice reports...if I needed a QB and it came down to JB or Kenny G, I'm picking Kenny.

But all things aren't equal in this situation and lot's of factors come into play. Let's hope Terrelle stays healthy and this discussion becomes irrelevant.

 

[MaxBuck]

There are lots of good comments on this thread, and I have to admit my personal bias favors Guiton in this comparison. But I'm willing to acknowledge that our coaching staff no doubt sees many factors that I'm unaware of.

With all that being said, I wouldn't be surprised to see Guiton move above Bauserman on the depth chart for next week. Same with Jordan Hall over Saine, honestly. Saine is so fast and explosive, but he needs gaping holes of the type that our line (against the defenses we face) don't seem capable of opening. In a broken field where he needs to pick his way to daylight, BSaine doesn't shine. Great 3rd-and-long back, though.

All this needs to be tempered by the realization that I really don't have much of a clue about football, other than I love the Bucks. :osu:

 

[Merih]

This will all be sorted out soon enough. I expect Tress will give these two more reps during the week to see who he wants to go with.

Hopefully TP will recover fine and this will all be a moot point.

 

[Wingate1217]

With all that being said, I wouldn't be surprised to see Guiton move above Bauserman on the depth chart for next week. Same with Jordan Hall over Saine, honestly.:osu:

I necessarily don't disagree, but I do remember it taking an in-ornate amount of time before Smith supplanted Zwick as the starter. Granted some of that time was served as Troy was in JT's doghouse but it still took a huge amount of time. It seems JT gives a guy a lot of chances before he moves on....

 

[buckeye78]

That was my whole argument. I provided facts that showed Guiton had zero passing experience in a true game.

People bring up mobility, guess what happened? They ignored my statistical evidence that showed Guiton and JB were nearly identical in rushing stats.

Somehow even when you give stats people still revert that they know better than the coaches and cling to "they think". Whatever.

I'll give you the sticking up for KB part. What bothers me is the way you're trying to belittle other posters opinions. Which is all any of us are offering. Ultimately, as I mentioned before and many others have as well, Tressel will make the decision and rightfully so. This thread doesn't dictate that decision, it's just a bunch of fans saying what they think. You're entitled to your opinion, and we are ours as well. Mine happens to be that JB isn't comfortable enough in the pocket to be truly productive and that KG is. I get that you disagree. You're entitled...so are we.

As for last year's stats being relevant...if you're using experience as evidence that JB belongs in over KG, then it's relevant.

As for the throwaways, there is a HUUUUGGGEEE difference between making a confident decision to throw out of bounds on a dead play and panicking, never seeing open recievers and throwing it out because you can't make a decision. That's like saying it's always right or wrong to go on 4th and 1, period...no grey, all black and white. Sometimes it's appropriate, sometimes not.

As someone else mentioned, let's all keep our fingers crossed that it's irrelevant and TP is fine. If not, we're screwed anyway.

 

[Bestbuck36]

the obviosu downside to Joe is that the offense has to change. You aren't running a read/option attack with Bauserman. The best thing about Kenny is you can run the same playbook Terrelle runs, and create a lot of easy throws for Kenny based on his running ability.

This is the full and complete answer. With Beanie Wells still in the backfield the answer is probably Joe Bauserman. With no dedicated RB and dominant run game, the answer is Kenny Guiton until it is proven otherwise. You cant change an offense now that has been implemented over the last year to go with our guys strengths. Guiton isnt as good a runner as TP but his passing is very similar, imo. Lets just all hope this is a moot discussion anyways. :(

 

[OhioExile]

When Joe takes over it reminds me about this offense with Tod Beochman...remember a true freshman (pryor) beat him out of this offense who hadnt even learned to play the position until maybe the rosebowl last year! We dont have the defense to win games like its 2002...not even close. For us to be successful when Pryor is down there is no choice..IMO but to hand the ball to Kenny.

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

I think what he meant was (or at least as I understand it):

If you have a 4 point lead and TP goes down, Bauserman might be the better candidate, because he has better fundamentals. Less likely to screw up something on the snap or hand-off.

If you are down by 4 points and TP goes down, Guiton might be the better candidate because he's a more dynamic player. Guiton is more likely to make a play and if he screws up and turns the ball over, oh well, loosing by 11 points is just a bad as loosing by 4.

Bausermans INT in the exact above situation might tip the scales a bit toward KG going forward.

I hope a QB who got a D1 scholarship is able to handle a snap. Other than that possible edge JB might have, I think the answer to both questions would be Guiton based on what I've seen from JB so far. Like so many others have said.....he can't be much worse.

 

[kn1f3party]

Long term KG may be a better fit for the offense. However, JB has had the meaningful reps and has now had the pressure of playing when we're under duress. JB is a safer play until something changes and when and if that happens the coaches will make that call.

2005 was a different beast. TS wasn't supposed to be maturing as a QB the way he was and JZ wasn't supposed to be regressing. I think it took a lot of people time to accept that was just the way it was going to be.

 

[Tlangs]

I necessarily don't disagree, but I do remember it taking an in-ornate amount of time before Smith supplanted Zwick as the starter. Granted some of that time was served as Troy was in JT's doghouse but it still took a huge amount of time. It seems JT gives a guy a lot of chances before he moves on....

and it took a shoulder injury to Zwick in the Iowa debacle for him to get a chance.

 

[UpNorthBuckeye]

I had not heard that the coaches had to talk JB out of transferring.

It's not too late for Bauserman to transfer, if that's what he wants.

I'd really like KG to get some time now because I don't think he's the QB of the future, so getting second string playing time this year might be one of his better chances of live action playing time.

I really don't think Bauserman is bad, but what he did Saturday (throwing that ugly pick) did not look like the second string QB.

Of course, he has not gotten that much playing time either, so I'm not saying he should be playing like a "grizzled vet".

Let's see some Kenny G this week, give us some more data to consider!

 

[leroyjenkins]

I would like for the OLine to get pissed off and maul IU. Then instead of bringing in JB when were up big, bring in KG and call some passes. When we score a few more times, bring in JB to handoff for the rest of the time. Then we can see where were really at. But of course this is predicated on my first point.

 

[IronBuckI]

One backup has been allowed to throw the ball in a game, and the other hasn't been allowed to throw the ball, is the same "trust the coaches" argument given for Zwick over Smith.

Trust the coaches is not an easy thing to do when it comes to quarterbacks, because the coaches (this regime and previous regimes) don't seem to be able to tell who is the gamer and who is just the better practice QB. McMullen was the QB that started the first game of Bellisari's suspension. Zwick was the first choice of the coaches, and who knows if he actually would have been pulled against Iowa if he hadn't been injured? I've heard both sides of that story. There may never be a consensus as to who the best choice was between Boeckman, Schoenhoft, and Henton, because all three experienced breakdowns of varying degrees at various points after the decision to go with Boeckman was made. Also, the Pryor/Boeckman thing damn near ripped the team apart.

 

[woofermazing]

One backup has been allowed to throw the ball in a game, and the other hasn't been allowed to throw the ball, is the same "trust the coaches" argument given for Zwick over Smith.

Trust the coaches is not an easy thing to do when it comes to quarterbacks, because the coaches (this regime and previous regimes) don't seem to be able to tell who is the gamer and who is just the better practice QB. McMullen was the QB that started the first game of Bellisari's suspension. Zwick was the first choice of the coaches, and who knows if he actually would have been pulled against Iowa if he hadn't been injured? I've heard both sides of that story. There may never be a consensus as to who the best choice was between Boeckman, Schoenhoft, and Henton, because all three experienced breakdowns of varying degrees at various points after the decision to go with Boeckman was made. Also, the Pryor/Boeckman thing damn near ripped the team apart.

There was alot more that went into the Boeckman/Pryor switch than just who was the better QB though. Beanie was out so with Boeckman in, we didn't have a good run threat. The offensive line was blocking horribly for a lot of the season and Todd didn't have the tools to compensate for that. That decision was easy. I do agree with you on the other QB controversies though.