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Game Thread Game Six: Ohio State 35, Michigan State 24 (final)

Troy played better yeaterday, but my opinion on the QB play holding back the effectiveness of this offense has not changed. He has a beautiful stat line, but he missed plenty of opportunities in that game. He did make strides to get better though and I can handle that.
 
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I am completely at a loss as to why some are still going on and on about which QB is better/gets a fair shake/etc.

A) TS is clearly the coaches choice as to the best QB for this team.

B) TS isn't very good

C) JZ can't unseat him so based on a logical assumption and his career performance to date you have to admit he's even worse.

Whats the big controversy? We have a mediocre, at best, starting QB and a slightly more mediocre back up. Not trying to bash the kids individually but the numbers don't lie.

The real question for me is whay after 4 years in this system have 2 different elite 11 QB's progressed so very little? I can buy the argument one Elite 11 kid just didn't pan out, but 2? The odds are getting long indeed if you want me to believe its just bad luck.
 
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I agree with those points, and grad's post above.

How good was Troy coming out of HS? I have heard rumblings that he was sort of raw, was he a very good passer back then?

And did Zwick struggle with non-spirals and throwing off of his back foot in HS?

I didn't follow recruiting back then so I can't comment. A good measuring stick might be Robbie Schoenhoft, he seems to have a laser, great vision and touch, has poise and toughness, and can scramble if needed (it was funny hearing the quotes from the players during camp when they were shocked he could run). How did 2001 HS Zwick match up with 2005 HS Schoenhoft?
 
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Ok, I went back and broke down the game film as a pure amateur fan, but it gave better and worse insight into my judgment of smith on the day.

Congrats to all of you first off, and shame on any of the Buckeye fans who I thought I heard booing.

It was good to see Tressel stick with Troy Smith, there are a lot of other coaches that would have pulled him.

I did not see the entire game, but from what I saw, it did look like you guys were a little flat during the first half, but either the team leaders or Tressel did a great job of instilling your players that you guys good still beat this team, no matter what happened in the first 25 min. of the game.

The Youbouty TD was crazy, but it was great that your defense took advantage of the opportunity, did I see it right, or were there two buckeyes that were close to blocking the kick?

When we played against Oklahoma and Mizzou this year, many of us talked about how we still didn't play our best game, yet we took care of business. It sucks that when you have to bring up the mistakes in a game and all, but it also makes you realize that if you do get everything working, you are going to be a beast. but hey, its the middle of the season, so with your staff and your talent, you guys take out some of the mistakes, and you are def. back on the fast track to a strong finish and hopefully a BCS bid. It's crowded at the top of the Big Ten right now, your guys conference always befuddles me, competitive no matter how good/bad any of the teams are. Our BCS situation could use a little bit more competitive conference. I mean Colorado was a joke, their coaching staff's comments make it sound as if they gave up in the first quarter.

We have Tech next week, they are going to be fired up for the game, but we are going to kick the crap out of them. You guys keep it up also.

Oh and remember the pollsters, talking heads, etc. who said Purdue had an easy road to being undefeated and winning the Big Ten? Greatness.
 
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whoopdeedo, this is exactly what zwick does and people worship him for it. I agree Zwick often progresses better, but if you take away short passes Zwick has almost no stats this year...

Why do you always have to turn things into a "Smith vs Zwick" pissing match? I don't recall mentioning Zwick at all. What I did say is that Smith's 67% completion rate is not indicative of his overall performance. He had 249 yards passing, but 75 of those came solely after missed tackles (46 yards on Ginn's TD and 29 yards on Holmes' second TD. If those tackles were made, the yardage for those 15 passes would be 174 yards, not 249 yards. And I don't recall anyone "worshiping" Zwick.

This is not as much about Smith's physical passing ability but rather his not being able to find open receivers down field on a consistent basis.
 
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Why do you always have to turn things into a "Smith vs Zwick" pissing match? I don't recall mentioning Zwick at all. What I did say is that Smith's 67% completion rate is not indicative of his overall performance. He had 249 yards passing, but 75 of those came solely after missed tackles (46 yards on Ginn's TD and 29 yards on Holmes' second TD. If those tackles were made, the yardage for those 15 passes would be 174 yards, not 249 yards. And I don't recall anyone "worshiping" Zwick.
sorry, my disputes with a few others in a smith/zwick discussion kind of rolled over onto your comments. my bad, I was letting that happen too much.
 
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Its odd how our (to some "worse" QB) goes 10-15 with 4 total TD's on the day, and our defense has a school record 12 sacks and Hawk puts up near 20 tackles on his own - yet we still struggled. We lost in just about every slot except the score (TOP, TO, pass yards, toal yards, first downs, plays, etc.). I would say we outplayed MSU in the mid-third to end of fourth quarter in a USC fashion to win the game. We put up over 100 yards and didnt settle on field goals. Game would have been ours plain and simple if it wasnt for turnovers - not JUST by Smith, but Ginn, Pittman and Holmes as well. We figure out how to eliminate the Turnovers and as Corso predicts - we win out to a BCS.
 
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Its odd how our (to some "worse" QB) goes 10-15 with 4 total TD's on the day, and our defense has a school record 12 sacks and Hawk puts up near 20 tackles on his own - yet we still struggled. We lost in just about every slot except the score (TOP, TO, pass yards, toal yards, first downs, plays, etc.).

Well, when you commit four turnovers to their none, have one of your senior LBs commit a total bonehead roughing penalty after making a crucial third-down stop inside your five-yard line which allows them to score a TD, have the opposition on the field almost twice as long as you, and have to rely on two missed tackles to win the game for you, I'd say that's struggling.
 
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Well, when you commit four turnovers to their none, have one of your senior LBs commit a total bonehead roughing penalty after making a crucial third-down stop inside your five-yard line which allows them to score a TD, have the opposition on the field almost twice as long as you, and have to rely on two missed tackles to win the game for you, I'd say that's struggling.

Read my WHOLE post Mili...

Just some numbers:

Smith is now 7-0 as a starter in Ohio Stadium. (7-1 total).

OSU has won 25 of 27 of their last home games.

It has taken 38 touches between Ginns last TD and his first TD (Miami to MSU).

Carpenter had 11 tackles and 4 sacks on the day.
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
Well, when you commit four turnovers to their none, have one of your senior LBs commit a total bonehead roughing penalty after making a crucial third-down stop inside your five-yard line which allows them to score a TD, have the opposition on the field almost twice as long as you, and have to rely on two missed tackles to win the game for you, I'd say that's struggling.
two blocked kicks, 1-6 on third down, 12 first downs, 4 offensive players touch the ball, 6 fumbles, 13 yards in the second qtr, one drive of more than 5 plays (a six play drive)... i can see milis point.

heres a question, when was the first time we ran a play on the msu territory?
 
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O-Zone quotebook from MSU game

Just thought I'd put this up here, there are some great TEAM quotes from the guys this week...

The-Ozone Note and Quotebook
By John Porentas

Paper, Plastic, or Other?: Sacks come in many forms and can be quite useful, especially at the supermarket, but Drew Stanton found out on Saturday that the kind of sacks the Buckeye defense likes the best can leave marks on you. OSU recorded a school-record 12 sacks against Stanton and the Spartans, eight of them in the second half.
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bobby Carpenter[/FONT]​
</td> </tr> </tbody> </table> "At the end of the day pass rush is just raw determination and we've got a lot of determined guys in there," said OSU linebacker/defensive end Bobby Carpenter.


"Kuds (defensive end Mike Kudla) is a determined guy, Quinn (defensive tackle Quinn Pitcock), Marcus (defensive tackle Marcus Green), Dave (defensive end /tackle David Patterson), Jay (defensive end Jay Richardson), we're all trying to get there. When you've got guys with a lot of fight and fire they're going to find a way to get to the quarterback and you're going to win," Carpenter said.


Carpenter led the Buckeyes with four sacks against MSU. Right behind him was Patterson with three. Patterson is suddenly a more active player and has really come into his own in the last two games. He credits the OSU coaching staff for making a bit of a change in how they use him for his increased productivity.


"I think what's really helping me is that I'm playing inside more," said Patterson.


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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]David Patterson[/FONT]
</td> </tr> </tbody> </table> "I think I do a little bit better when I play inside. I'm not a real speed guy, but I'm quick and I can use my quickness inside. I'm only about 6-1 or 6-2 and that helps me use my leverage out there.


"Those big tackles, sometimes when I bull rush them sometimes it's hard to see. On the inside it doesn't matter if you see because you just want to get under them and get leverage."


Shouldering the Blame: Michigan State Head Coach John L. Smith was obviously disappointed with the loss on Saturday, but not with the effort of his team. While crediting OSU for the win, Smith put the blame for the loss on the head coach.
"This loss today goes to the coaches. Bottom line it goes on my name. It should say that Ohio State won the game but the loss goes the coaches, and that goes on me. That's the way I feel," said Smith.
Smith was hard on himself and his coaches, but had praise for the Buckeyes.


"They have great, great players. Those defensive kids are something else. Offensively they have some very special skill. They continued to fight and ended up getting the win," said Smith.


"You can't get into a slugging match with those guys. It's hard to do. They deserve a lot of credit. We had trouble blocking them, but we were able to move the ball. Drew did a great job. They played hard and we played hard. It was a great football game and a great match. "


Mutual Admiration: MSU quarterback Drew Stanton and the MSU offense have impressed a lot of people this season. You can now add the Buckeye defense to that number.


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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Quinn Pitcock [/FONT]
</td> </tr> </tbody> </table> "Stanton is a great quarterback. He's an athlete. He can run the ball, throw the ball, throw the ball on the run. He's a really great quarterback," said OSU defensive tackle Quinn Pitcock.


"I believe they're definitely about the best (offense he has faced this season, the most effective," said OSU defensive back Nate Salley.


"They don't run a whole lot of different plays but they execute them well. They have a good quarterback and good receivers who catch the ball when they need to. They have a pretty effective offense," Salley said.


"Stanton is an exceptional quarterback," said linebacker Anthony Schlegel.
"We were pressuring him and he kept getting up and finding those guys when we were attacking him and moving just enough in the pocket to dump it off to somebody. He's a great quarterback and they have a great offense. It was a challenge today."


For his part, Stanton left Ohio Stadium impressed with the Buckeyes and the OSU program.


"It's hard to beat Ohio State at home," said Stanton.


"They had the crowd behind them. This is one of the loudest places anybody will every play. If you look at Ohio State, they could very well be undefeated if they didn't have to go into Happy Valley and that atmosphere, and that Texas game kind of slipped away from them as well.


"I think A. J. Hawk is everything as advertised. The way he plays, some of our wide receivers, he's just as fast as us out there. He hits like a ton of bricks. He's the stable part of that defense. He's the one who made all the plays and he's a leader. You see why they're so successful," Stanton said.


Mentoring: Freshman offensive tackle Alex Boone was pressed into action as a starter against MSU when regular right tackle Kirk Barton suffered a leg injury last week against Penn State. Boone got the job done well enough to help the Buckeyes to the win, but had some shaky moments as well.


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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Alex Boone [/FONT]​
</td> </tr> </tbody> </table> "There were a few times when they did their blitzes that I was a little confused," said Boone.


"I know that was on the edge getting beat real late a couple times in the first half and did get called for one holding penalty, but anytime you can have a guy step in like that for you you're happy to win the game," said OSU offensive coordinator and line coach Jim Bollman.


Boone's problems were more of the mental nature, knowing who to block. Fortunately for Boone and the Buckeye offense, he had a mentor right out there on the field that he could turn to when he felt a little unsure of himself.
"(Right guard) T. J. (Downing) could be considered my dad today because of what he did," said Boone.


"Without T. J. I wouldn't have been doing what I did. If I had a question I went right to my left and he's be right there. A few times he just came over and helped me out. It was just awesome," Boone said.'
Downing said he was happy to help out.


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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]T. J. Downing [/FONT]​
</td> </tr> </tbody> </table> "He did a great job of preparing this week, knowing he was going to be taking all the reps.


"I had to assist him every once in a while, but Rob Sims told me that Adrien Clark did the same thing with him when he was a freshman stepping in there. Rob said that I'm an upperclassman and that is my role and I have to take it. When Alex was having some problems on where to go I was there helping him out," said Downing.


"I told him that when he makes the NFL one day he better put aside a little bit for me for helping him along the way," said Downing with a chuckle.


"I'm more than happy to help out anybody out there because I love this university, I love this team, more than anything. To be able to help any way I can, I'll do that. If that means bringing along a freshman quicker, I'm good with that."


Boone did what he had to do, but Downing sees much, much better days ahead for the Cleveland area native.


"You give him an off-season under Al Johnson and the kid is going to be an unstoppable force in the Big Ten," Downing said.


For his part, Boone was not awed by being on the field, but seemed almost star-struck at being out there with some of his fellow line mates.
"It's crazy. Sometimes at practice I look down the line and I see these guys that I just watched two or three years ago. I say to myself 'This is amazing,'" said Boone.


"It's exciting to be out there with those guys, it's exciting to see who I'm out there with."


Evolving Personality: The plan on offense when 2005 began was to become a spread team to take advantage of the large number of skilled wide receivers on the OSU roster. The offense, however, has sputtered this season. Ironically, the two best days on offense have been on days when the Buckeyes got away from the spread a little and used more two-back formations and tight end formations. That's what they did against Iowa, and they did a fair amount of that this week against MSU. OSU offensive coordinator Jim Bollman hinted the Buckeyes could be headed toward more "regular" offense this season.
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Jim Bollman [/FONT]
</td> </tr> </tbody> </table> "We went back to a little more regular thing with two backs in the backfield," said Bollman.
OSU's big plays against MSU came out of those formations.


"Those were plays that coming into game we hoped we could get out of some regular things," Bollman said.


The Buckeyes also seem to becoming more comfortable with Antonio Pittman as their main man in the running game, particularly out of their regular formations.


"I think that that will be part of the deal. He's become a little more reliable . It's a shame he put the ball on the ground. We were coming out of the blocks on that first drive. I thought he ran pretty good today for the most part," said Bollman.


Though they have yet to actually say it, you get the feeling that the Buckeye offensive line would like to see more regular formations as opposed to the spread and the ball in Pittman's hands more.


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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Antonio Pittman [/FONT]
</td> </tr> </tbody> </table> "We like keeping the ball on the ground because we're very confident as offensive linemen that we can push the line of scrimmage backward and that we can put a hat on everybody and create those lanes for him to run in. We just feel like having Antonio back there we're going to get the job done because he's a helluva running back," said starting right guard T. J. Downing.
"I love that. I just love blocking for him. He just hits those holes and doesn't complain," added Robbie Sims.


"Tony Pittman is running the ball well right now. Frankly I'd like to see him get the ball 25 or 30 times a game. He's a workhorse and he wants that," added linebacker Bobby Carpenter.
Pittman says he can feel the Buckeye offense begriming to depend on him more on Saturday, and he likes the feeling.


"It felt good that they finally put it all on me," said Pittman.


"I'm ready for it. It's what I've been asking for the whole season and it finally came to me. I had to make something happen with it."


Gutting it Out: Ashton Youboty's return of a blocked field goal for a touchdown was undoubtedly the turning point of the game. Ironically, Youboty almost left the field before that play due to an injury, but decided to gut it out.


"Ashton was hurting," said Bobby Carpenter.


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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ashton Youboty [/FONT]
</td> </tr> </tbody> </table> "His hip flexor was hurting. He ran that in on pure adrenaline. He came in (at half) and he had tears in his eyes in the training room. I felt for him. That's the kind of guys we have that are willing to give it up for the team," Carpenter said.


"Ashton was hurt the play before that, and he picked it up and he ran and he scored," added Antonio Pittman.


"He got helped into the locker room (at the end of the half). The dude couldn't even walk really. That was big for him to keep fighting really."


For his part, Youboty shrugged off what everyone else thought was a pretty heroic play.


"I saw there was 25 seconds on the clock so I just stayed in. I got a shot to the hip," said Youboty describing his injury situation prior to his big play.
Youboty was escorted down the sideline by Donte Whitner, but there wasn't a Spartan anywhere near them for Whitner to block. According to quarterback Troy Smith, that's because another Buckeye had taken out the last vestige of hope the Spartans had of stopping the run.


"I want to give all kinds of respect and credit to A. J., because if you watch that play that ball might not get picked up if A. J. doesn't push the kicker over," said Smith.


"He made a great play. He could have gotten the ball also, but he was an unselfish player, pushed that guy over and Ashton was able to pick it up and score a touchdown. That block was huge. That was huge. That turned the game around, the whole way around. It got our fans back into it and we were able to come back and do some things."
 
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