Futuristic Gun You Can Own...Now!

[Muck]

My interest in guns is simply one of an interest in all things mechinaical. Like most guys I like to see how things function, whether it's a high tech weapon or a car or a stereo/tv.

You should take a look at the TDI Kriss Super V.

Essentially it redirects the bolt at a downward angle rather than straight back to reduce muzzle climb. (Don't believe the claims that it eliminates recoil....it still kicks, it's just that the energy is straight back rather than turning your shoulder into a pivot point for it to rotate upwards around).

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHrsQriJb5c]YouTube - Kriss SuperV Submachine Gun with Matt Burkett[/ame]

Borelli Consulting Review
Modern Firearms Article

I have given up my personal collection long ago. They mostly collected dust. And my hearing suffered. :(

But, I digress. Science and weapons thought marches on. There is a difference in thought between NATO and American military. The handgun to NATO partners is generally considered a weapon of last resort. While American thought is oneof a front line/in use tool.

Trust me the US military does not consider sidearms to be front line/primary weapons.

The difference is that most European armies (and the rest of the world) view the pistol as primarily a symbol of rank for officers (keep in mind the social gap between officers & conscript enlisted in those armies is far more vast than here) whereas in the US military it is still first and foremost a weapon that needs to perform when used.

 

[Taosman]

Actually, I've always fancied Civil War artillery! Like this little beauty.

 

[Gatorubet]

Actually, I've always fancied Civil War artillery! Like this little beauty.

I've seen that before. I thought it was European....

Didn't some obstinate artilleryman tell us that?

 

[Taosman]

Once you've seen one 14ft, 8 ton piece they all look the same!

 

[TRON]

Retired Green Beret Gets Court Martial After Shooting Intruder

Oh ok.

I get it.

 

[Mike80]

The Aussies I talked too in Iraq love this weapon even though it's essentially a .22....

One of the older guys (I think he was a CMSgt, but their ranks are a bit different, he could have been a Warrant Officer) was around when they used the old StG 58 (which was essentially a separately licensed FN FAL) back in the 70s and he says the newer rifle doesn't jam as much as the older one did but lacks the punch........

 

[Muck]

The Aussies I talked too in Iraq love this weapon even though it's essentially a .22....

When comparing the 5.7 to a .22 I specifically meant .22 rimfire.

Yes the 5.56 is .22 caliber but it's got a lot more ass behind it.

Notice the difference in the size of the cartridge cases:

 

[Mike80]

When comparing the 5.7 to a .22 I specifically meant .22 rimfire.

Yes the 5.56 is .22 caliber but it's got a lot more ass behind it.

Notice the difference in the size of the cartridge cases:

I know, that's why I said essentially :p

 

[Muck]

BTW there are currently two companies making AUG clones for the US market.

The Tactical Product Design AXR:

...and Microtech's STG-556:

Microtech is chambering their version in 6.8 as well.

 

[Taosman]

"The Caliber Conflict" a excellent read................
The Caliber Conflict

 

[Muck]

The 6.8 SPC is dead in the water as far as the military is concerned, NOT because of bureacratic red tape but rather because when 5th SFG started using it in the field the results weren't exceptionally greater than those produced by the current platforms.

All the internet pontificating by armchair generals is as usual, mostly hot air.

The 6.8's biggest pimp one Gary Roberts aka DrGKR (he's a Navy Dentist btw) is now pushing 7x43 as the new super duper magic bullet.

If you want to see where the military truly wants to go on future developments start looking into plastic cased telescoped ammunition:

CTA is 30-50% lighter than current brass cartridges (and costs less given the rising price of brass).

Caseless ammunition is another possibility. Caseless rounds look about the same as the CTA except there is no outer casing, rather the round is encased in a solid block of propellent (do a search on Heckler & Koch's G-11).

Other shorter term possibilities include going to steel instead of brass casings. Steel is cheaper than brass and because it is stronger you can go to a case with thinner walls which reduces weight 10-20% (allegedly).

Also being looked at are advances in propellents that give you equal velocity with a smaller volume of powder. That would allow you to use a physically smaller case...again saving weight.

The weight/size saving designs all equate to a lighter basic load for the infantryman and/or the ability to carry a greater number of rounds.

Which of course goes back to a large part of the move to 5.56 in the first place.

FWIW virtually all of the studies carried out by the various militaries in the 20th century tend to come back something in the 6-6.5mm range as being the "optimal" size for ammunition. But like everything it comes down to trade off's, what are your priorities and is a small increase in terminal ballistics worth the negatives (greater weight, increased recoil, shorter component life etc etc).

Regardless Dunnigan still gets major props for creating Panzer Blitz. I loved that game as a kid.

 

[Taosman]

Still workin' on the "caseless" stuff I guess. And the "energy" weapons.

The 4.73 x 33mm caseless ammunition used in the Heckler & Koch G11 rifle, shown disassembled. The components are, from left to right, the solid propellant, the primer, the bullet, and a plastic cap that serves to keep the bullet centered in the propellant block.

 

[Muck]

FWIW here are the wound profiles of some of the various rounds discussed thus far:

5.7x28 (SS190)

5.56x45 (M855 Green tip)

.22 LR

9mm ball (M882)

Pretty much all of the major studies on wound trauma agree that 12" of penetration on a torso is the absolutely minimal acceptable amount while 18" is optimum for reaching the important bits that you want to damage in order to stop a human as quickly as possible.

The two demonstrated wound profiles of the 5.7x28 show roughly 9 and 11 inches of penetration against 10% ballistic gelatin. The photo which shows the lesser amount of penetration is from Fabrique Nationale itself.

The large "blob" in the photo is the temporary cavity. You can see the permanent cavity track on the line drawing and as you can see it is not terribly different from that caused by a .22 LR round...except it displays significantly less penetration.