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"Fredo, you're nothing to me now" (2008 version)

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HailToMichigan;1086494; said:
Keep in mind that OSU has zero in-state competition for its talent. If a guy wants to play close to home at the highest levels, he goes to OSU. If a guy in Michigan wants to play close to home at the highest levels, he has a choice between two schools. If a player in Ohio is sick of hearing all OSU all the time, he goes to Michigan. (We have gotten a few recruits this way.) If a guy in Michigan is sick of hearing all U-M all the time, he goes to MSU. In other words given that we don't have a monopoly on the talent, we have to raid Ohio and other states, while Tressel can simply pluck the low-hanging fruit and not worry that Toledo is gonna compete with him. That's always been my theory, anyway.
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I hear this a lot from the aforementioned MSU fan - OSU has no in-state competition, which is true. However, his argument is that MSU can't get talent because scUM has the pick of the Michigan litter, and between tOSU, scUM and ND, MSU ends up with the leftovers of the Midwest. That being said, except for the kid who wants to stay in Michigan, how much of a recruiting rival is MSU for you guys? I don't ask this in an argumentative way, but seriously, because I am not up on the yearly UM-MSU recruiting battles. From an MSU fan's perspective scUM is in the driver's seat, and MSU has much less to choose from.

We do, however, now have increased competition from Illinois and ND, and they've jumped the fence to pluck a couple out of out backyard this year.
 
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HailToMichigan said:
I think you're exaggerating.

Given a couple hours and my own damn computer (I'm stuck away from home for another two weeks or so) I'd research this more fully. Which I still will probably do. It's my estimation that Ohio does produce more talent than Michigan but it's farfetched to say Michigan "doesn't turn out anywhere near the amount of top-level talent." Keep in mind that OSU has zero in-state competition for its talent. If a guy wants to play close to home at the highest levels, he goes to OSU. If a guy in Michigan wants to play close to home at the highest levels, he has a choice between two schools. If a player in Ohio is sick of hearing all OSU all the time, he goes to Michigan. (We have gotten a few recruits this way.) If a guy in Michigan is sick of hearing all U-M all the time, he goes to MSU. In other words given that we don't have a monopoly on the talent, we have to raid Ohio and other states, while Tressel can simply pluck the low-hanging fruit and not worry that Toledo is gonna compete with him. That's always been my theory, anyway.
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wait....you're serious?
 
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HailToMichigan;1086494; said:
I think you're exaggerating.

Given a couple hours and my own damn computer (I'm stuck away from home for another two weeks or so) I'd research this more fully. Which I still will probably do. It's my estimation that Ohio does produce more talent than Michigan but it's farfetched to say Michigan "doesn't turn out anywhere near the amount of top-level talent." Keep in mind that OSU has zero in-state competition for its talent. If a guy wants to play close to home at the highest levels, he goes to OSU. If a guy in Michigan wants to play close to home at the highest levels, he has a choice between two schools. If a player in Ohio is sick of hearing all OSU all the time, he goes to Michigan. (We have gotten a few recruits this way.) If a guy in Michigan is sick of hearing all U-M all the time, he goes to MSU. In other words given that we don't have a monopoly on the talent, we have to raid Ohio and other states, while Tressel can simply pluck the low-hanging fruit and not worry that Toledo is gonna compete with him. That's always been my theory, anyway.
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Based on the Scout star-ratings:

The state of Michigan produced:
1 5-star, 6 4-stars, 11 3-stars in 2008;
2 5-stars, 11 4-stars, 6 3-stars in 2007;
1 5-star, 1 4-stars, 8 3-stars in 2006;
1 5-star, 3 4-stars, 11 3-stars in 2005
...

The state of Ohio produced:
3 5-stars, 11 4-stars, 31 3-stars in 2008;
2 5-stars, 10 4-stars, 30 3-stars in 2007;
3 5-stars, 18 4-stars, 28 3-stars in 2006;
2 5-stars, 13 4-stars, 16 3-stars in 2005

Of course, star-ratings by a national service are to be taken with a grain of salt, but those numbers give a pretty good indication that TSUN doesn't produce "anywhere near the amount of top-level talent" that Ohio does. :)
 
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HailToMichigan;1086494; said:
Keep in mind that OSU has zero in-state competition for its talent.
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Speaking of exaggeration -

There are plenty of D-1A programs within the border of the State of Ohio, including one other BCS Conference school with a football team.

Not traditionally competitive for talent in the past, that I will grant, but they are here now. And today is the only day that counts, not the past.

Besides which there are all the aforementioned MAC schools.

Plus, to clarify matters further, since when did only in-state competition count?
 
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buckandguinfan;1086507; said:
I hear this a lot from the aforementioned MSU fan - OSU has no in-state competition, which is true. However, his argument is that MSU can't get talent because scUM has the pick of the Michigan litter, and between tOSU, scUM and ND, MSU ends up with the leftovers of the Midwest. That being said, except for the kid who wants to stay in Michigan, how much of a recruiting rival is MSU for you guys? I don't ask this in an argumentative way, but seriously, because I am not up on the yearly UM-MSU recruiting battles. From an MSU fan's perspective scUM is in the driver's seat, and MSU has much less to choose from.

We do, however, now have increased competition from Illinois and ND, and they've jumped the fence to pluck a couple out of out backyard this year.
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Michigan loses at most 2 kids per year to MSU, some years none, and this year one (Fred Smith).

Michigan is not total garbage, but Ohio has about 25 more players in the NFL and a ton more D1 college talent than Michigan.
 
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HailToMichigan;1086494; said:
I think you're exaggerating.

Given a couple hours and my own damn computer (I'm stuck away from home for another two weeks or so) I'd research this more fully. Which I still will probably do. It's my estimation that Ohio does produce more talent than Michigan but it's farfetched to say Michigan "doesn't turn out anywhere near the amount of top-level talent." Keep in mind that OSU has zero in-state competition for its talent. If a guy wants to play close to home at the highest levels, he goes to OSU. If a guy in Michigan wants to play close to home at the highest levels, he has a choice between two schools. If a player in Ohio is sick of hearing all OSU all the time, he goes to Michigan. (We have gotten a few recruits this way.) If a guy in Michigan is sick of hearing all U-M all the time, he goes to MSU. In other words given that we don't have a monopoly on the talent, we have to raid Ohio and other states, while Tressel can simply pluck the low-hanging fruit and not worry that Toledo is gonna compete with him. That's always been my theory, anyway.
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MSU is at the top levels? Do you really believe that? :slappy: Five more years of Dantonio and maybe but Duffy Daugherty has been gone a long time.

TSUN, Penn State, Notre Dame, Illinois, Minny, hell half the NCAA are anxiously recruiting in Ohio. Cincy is becoming more attractive, possibly as attractive as MSU, and there are more mid-majors in Ohio.

Low-hanging fruit? Is that you Chimp?
 
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HailToMichigan;1086494; said:
I think you're exaggerating.

Given a couple hours and my own damn computer (I'm stuck away from home for another two weeks or so) I'd research this more fully. Which I still will probably do. It's my estimation that Ohio does produce more talent than Michigan but it's farfetched to say Michigan "doesn't turn out anywhere near the amount of top-level talent." Keep in mind that OSU has zero in-state competition for its talent. If a guy wants to play close to home at the highest levels, he goes to OSU. If a guy in Michigan wants to play close to home at the highest levels, he has a choice between two schools. If a player in Ohio is sick of hearing all OSU all the time, he goes to Michigan. (We have gotten a few recruits this way.) If a guy in Michigan is sick of hearing all U-M all the time, he goes to MSU. In other words given that we don't have a monopoly on the talent, we have to raid Ohio and other states, while Tressel can simply pluck the low-hanging fruit and not worry that Toledo is gonna compete with him. That's always been my theory, anyway.
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You're not going to like the results of that research. Again, check the offer lists. I believe Koger was the only one of your "Ohio" kids to get an offer from tOSU. Not something to crow about.
 
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NFBuck;1086570; said:
You're not going to like the results of that research. Again, check the offer lists. I believe Koger was the only one of your "Ohio" kids to get an offer from tOSU. Not something to crow about.
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Omameh also had one also, albeit a very late one.
 
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Bleed S & G;1086549; said:
Traitor! :biggrin:

I tried to lookup hall of famer's by state - but couldn't find it. :(
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:lol:

Michigan (4)
George Allen - Detroit
Joe DeLamielleure - Detroit
Bill Hewitt - Bay City
Paul Krause - Flint


Ohio (21)
Cliff Battles - Akron
Bob (Boomer) Brown - Cleveland
Paul Brown - Norwalk
Joe Carr - Columbus
Larry Csonka - Stow
Len Dawson - Alliance
Dan Dierdorf - Canton
Benny Friedman - Cleveland
Lou Groza - Martins Ferry
Wilbur (Pete) Henry - Mansfield
Clarke Hinkle - Toronto
Jack Lambert - Mantua
Dante Lavelli - Hudson
Tom Mack - Cleveland
Mike Michalske - Cleveland
Chuck Noll - Cleveland
Alan Page - Canton
Don Shula - Grand River
Roger Staubach - Cincinnati
Paul Warfield - Warren
Bill Willis - Columbus
 
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BUCKYLE;1086596; said:
Michigan (4)
George Allen - Detroit
Joe DeLamielleure - Detroit
Bill Hewitt - Bay City
Paul Krause - Flint


Ohio (21)
Cliff Battles - Akron
Bob (Boomer) Brown - Cleveland
Paul Brown - Norwalk
Joe Carr - Columbus
Larry Csonka - Stow
Len Dawson - Alliance
Dan Dierdorf - Canton
Benny Friedman - Cleveland
Lou Groza - Martins Ferry
Wilbur (Pete) Henry - Mansfield
Clarke Hinkle - Toronto
Jack Lambert - Mantua
Dante Lavelli - Hudson
Tom Mack - Cleveland
Mike Michalske - Cleveland
Chuck Noll - Cleveland
Alan Page - Canton
Don Shula - Grand River
Roger Staubach - Cincinnati
Paul Warfield - Warren
Bill Willis - Columbus
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Just as I thought.. game over. Soon to be adding two more to the Ohio list...

These are not scout star rankings.. according to the best of the best to ever play the game - Ohio owns M*ch*gan

Damn it feels good to be a gangsta
 
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NFBuck;1086582; said:
True...forgot about him, but his offer came in after he already verballed, right?
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Remind me about that next time someone sides with Joe Tiller and trashes Rich Rod for "stealing" someone else's recruit :wink2:

MSU is at the top levels?
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They play in the Big Ten, don't they?

On the other hand, there being "more mid-majors in Ohio" is also kind of a dubious argument, isn't it? I don't pretend that Central Michigan is in competition for Michigan's recruits, and I don't pretend Kent State is in competition with Ohio State.

Regarding MSU, of the top 15 state recruits as chosen by the Detroit News, 5 went to U-M, 5 went to MSU, and 5 went out of state (Alabama, USC, Penn State, Notre Dame, Cincy). Competition is better than maybe it seems. State fans can bitch all they want about getting the leftovers from Michigan, OSU, and Notre Dame, but 1) they've had lousy coaches for nearly a decade now and 2) they've still managed a few wins over Michigan, so they must be doing something right in the recruiting department. True enough, nearly every Michigan commit from Michigan also has an offer in hand from MSU, while the other way round isn't true.
 
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