• New here? Register here now for access to all the forums, download game torrents, private messages, polls, Sportsbook, etc. Plus, stay connected and follow BP on Instagram @buckeyeplanet and Facebook.

Dozens of climbers walk by a dying man on Mt Everest...

Jump to latest Follow Reply
plum diamonds buckeye planet
Sort by date Sort by votes
Mili, SCUBA isn't a fair analogy either... You don't climb up the mountain with any excess weight whatever. You have literally 100s of pounds of supplys on your back as is, you make yourself as light as you can. In water, you can carry two tanks with little issue.

And, I'm not being a bad-ass. I'm realizing the "Climbers Code" as it were. As relief of moral responsibility goes, I should hope I'm being clear: that the lack of oxygen is more than a little responsible for the decisions being made by people at elevation. You think they don't feel bad for leaving a friend behind, especially once they themselves make it down? Of course they do. But, they're not simply out walking around on a cold day, my man.. they're freezing their tits off, can't breathe, damn near death themselves, physically and emotionally spent, and you want to treat them like they're at some roadside accident? Not a fair analogy in my view.
 
Upvote 0
MililaniBuckeye said:
What's funny is all the bad-asses here saying, "Fuck it, he knew the risks...tough shit", while the man who conquered the mountain in the first place is the one criticizing the non-actions of the climbers. I think he's got the credentials to make that criticism.

Back to my scuba analogy, scuba divers also know the risks when diving, but that doesn't make it OK to abandon another diver just because "he knew the risks". Being at 27,000 feet doesn't relieve you of your moral responsibility as a human being. Morality isn't inversely proportional to elevation.
Click to expand...

Not comparable Mili.

Lets say you were swimming on the Great Barrier Reef with some strangers and one guy got attacked by a Great White taking off his leg. He is still alive but in shock and not able to swim. The boat is 1/2 mile away. You see the Shark turn and you know damn well if you hang around to help you have a good chance to be a meal for Jaws but...there is a chance you could save him, bring him to the boat and still live.

Would you do it or would you leave him there to die and save yourself?

Edit: To add what BKB says above it was 100- below zero on top of the Mountain. Extremly cold even for Everest. You stop and you die.
 
Upvote 0
BCSBust said:
Well, if that group of climbers was in good enough health (which I assume they were), then they could have helped the guy out. I don't really want to hear bullshit about the guy not being in good enough health and "he wasn't going to makie it, anyway." Just stay with the guy until he passes on or medical attention arrives.
Click to expand...

Do you have any idea what it is like up there? It's not like you're sitting around in your backyard waiting for an ambulance, you're on the top of a fucking mountain. Everyone up there is accepting their own risks of living or dying. I have talked to a guy who has climbed the mountain, and he said that he was glad to just make it himself, and that some climbers can not make it, and that is accepted as part of the sport.

Oh8ch said:
Car full of nuns? Probably so.

If an aggressive and erratic driver caused an accident on a busy highway and helping him would put my life in direct and serious danger I would have to think it over.

These guys know what is at risk and they know the risks they are taking to help someone else. The article clearly states he could not have been saved. Getting near the top of Everest takes a heck of a lot more planning and effort than it takes to get on the freeway. For most this is a once in a life time event that involved tremendous effort.

I would be quicker to condemn someone who went up there expecting others to put their lives at risk.
Click to expand...

StooGrimson said:
Uh, they are two radiaclly different things. Everyone who makes an attempt at the Everest summit has been made aware that this scenario is a very real possibility by their support team and guides. It's essentially an unwritten rule that if you are responsible for yourself during a final attempt at the summit. Assisting someone else in those conditions puts both of your lives in extreme peril along with everyone else who may be behind you either driving for the summit or making their way back down. Only the very best mountineers in the world are capable of extending help, and that can have very fatal consequences (check out the great book "Into thin Air" for a prime example of what can happen with the some best climbers in the world try to help people out). The notion that someone could be slid down to safety at that altitude and those conditions is simply false. The drops are too extreme and the chance of starting an avalanche aren't worth the risk.
Click to expand...

Buckeyeskickbuttocks said:
Read "In to Thin Air"

Everest is not like driving past an accident scene. If you die, you die. ANd you're left up there forever. The mountain is literally littered with bodies of the dead. At 29,000 feet your responsiblity is YOU and that's it. Not your buddy, not anything else. You. And all big mountain climbers are aware of this.

It'd be nice to think you can help, but you can't. You don't carry extra oxygen, because you cant. You are barely alive yourdamnself, and you can't really think straight. Morality? You probably left that somewhere around 15,000 feet.
Click to expand...


Thank you.
 
Upvote 0
MililaniBuckeye said:
Back to my scuba analogy, scuba divers also know the risks when diving, but that doesn't make it OK to abandon another diver just because "he knew the risks". Being at 27,000 feet doesn't relieve you of your moral responsibility as a human being. Morality isn't inversely proportional to elevation.
Click to expand...

I'd suggest you pick up a copy of "Shadow Divers" (one hell of a book). These guys have a very similar code as mountaineers while working in extreme conditions. Attempting rescues or providing help at the extreme depths they dive to is incredibly dangerous and can be quite fatal. If you're not part of a particular diving group, you're pretty much on your own (and even then it's risky as hell to help someone). Even if you think that's BS, I'd still recommend the book.
 
Upvote 0
Folanator said:
Not comparable Mili.

Lets say you were swimming on the Great Barrier Reef with some strangers and one guy got attacked by a Great White taking off his leg. He is still alive but in shock and not able to swim. The boat is 1/2 mile away. You see the Shark turn and you know damn well if you hang around to help you have a good chance to be a meal for Jaws but...there is a chance you could save him, bring him to the boat and still live.

Would you do it or would you leave him there to die and save yourself?

Edit: To add what BKB says above it was 100- below zero on top of the Mountain. Extremly cold even for Everest. You stop and you die.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that's a good analogy either, since the danger here (the shark) is an unknown (will or will it not attack again), while being on the mountain the danger is a known constant (cold, wind, thin air). But, to answer your question, I'd probably try to save him, because if I'm a half mile from refuge (boat, shore, etc.), if that shark wants me for lunch he's going to get my ass regardless if I help the injured guy or try swimming away alone. Besides, most sharks don't mess with anything that fights back...first time the shark comes within leg range, I'm booting his snout, and chances are he'll go find something else to try to eat.

Buckeyeskickbuttocks said:
Mili, SCUBA isn't a fair analogy either... You don't climb up the mountain with any excess weight whatever. You have literally 100s of pounds of supplys on your back as is, you make yourself as light as you can. In water, you can carry two tanks with little issue.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and in scuba you don't stop in mid-dive to set-up camp, rest, or get warm. Nor do you have replishments (food, water). When you're in the water at 60-130 feet down, you're as isolated as you can possibly be. Rapidly accending to the surface after being down for a while is not an option (unless you happen to be within immediate access to a de-comp chamber), so you have to slowly rise to the surface, with set safety stops at certain depths. When doing buddy-breathing assistance, that doesn't change. Also, it doesn't matter if you're at 130 feet or 3 feet, if you're underwater with no air, you drown. On the mountain, once you get back down to a certain elevation, the effects of hypoxia diminish/disappear. Now, had the climbers tried to assist the guy and he was already too weak to move at all, then it sucks to be him. But, from what the article implies, most climbers didn't even bother to check the guy despite seeing he's still alive but not knowing whether he could move or not, and that's what is unacceptable.

exhawg said:
Thanks, but I'll take the helicopter.
Click to expand...
I don't think helicopters fly at 27,000 (forgot at what altitude that the air is too thin for the helicopter to climb past).
 
Upvote 0
exhawg said:
Thanks, but I'll take the helicopter.

3.jpg
Click to expand...

Here Mili, the picture was posted on the previous page.
 
Upvote 0
I don't know that the "rest" and "getting warm" are accurate, but then I've never climbed anything to a snow line, so....

It wasn't my assertion that diving is not without it's dangers. It's that diving and climbing are not accurate comparables. Building a tunnel under the English Channel is dangerous, it's not comparable to Flying a rocket to the moon. I don't know which of diving or climbing is more dangerous, but it's clear that the diving code is different from the climbing code.. and, I should also restate the biggest difference appears to be the hallucinations/etc. one gets at altitude, which does not occur on a dive (at least not that I'm aware) You're asking people to think straight, and I'm saying, it's not possible.
 
Upvote 0
Did a little looking into why it is called the 'death zone'.

As you ascend a mountain your body can acclimate to certian altitudes and oxygen levels. After a while liquid ox becomes mandatory.

But at the altitude that is called the 'death zone' (above 24,000 feet) it is impossible for the body to acclimate. Even with liquid oxygen your body functions will deterioate and your consciousness will be impacted for as long as you are at that altitude. Everybody who climbs Everest above a certain level is dying for the duration of time they are above 24k. So technically, not only was the Brit dying, but everyone who passed him was dying as well.

Further reading also discloses that the dead guy was cutting corners. He went with a 'bargain' outfit that saved him thousands of dollars but sent him up unprepared and with insufficient ox. That should be the headline. Maybe other dimwits would read it and lives would be saved after all.
 
Upvote 0
Thump said:
Here Mili, the picture was posted on the previous page.
Click to expand...

I do not believe that is Everest. Wrong shape top.

Hellicopters do not fly much above 24,000 ft becasue there isn't enough air to get a bite with their roters. No way over Everest.

Mili, trust me on this one. You do not "rest and get warm" anywhere over 25,000 ft. Your body and brain basicly starts to die at that altitude. It is a race against time to save your skin.

BTW you are a fucking nut case for thinking you are going up against a great white. I would rather die falling off the top of Everest rather than be eaten. Psyco boy. :biggrin:
 
Upvote 0
Folanator said:
I do not believe that is Everest. Wrong shape top.

Hellicopters do not fly much above 24,000 ft becasue there isn't enough air to get a bite with their roters. No way over Everest.

Mili, trust me on this one. You do not "rest and get warm" anywhere over 25,000 ft. Your body and brain basicly starts to die at that altitude. It is a race against time to save your skin.

BTW you are a fucking nut case for thinking you are going up against a great white. I would rather die falling off the top of Everest rather than be eaten. Psyco boy. :biggrin:
Click to expand...
(video on the first link)
http://www.greatoutdoors.com/published/general/expeditions/helicopteroneverestmakeshistory/
http://www.everestnews.com/stories2005/everestcopter05272005.htm
http://www.mounteverest.net/story/s...steryChoppersUtopiasummit-VIDEOJun12005.shtml

believe it! :p
 
Upvote 0
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top