Do you think Mark McGwire should be in the Hall of Fame?

[The Man]

I fucking can't stand Sammy fucking Sosa. I hate his little hop, I hate his banging his chest, I hate his corked bats, I hate his moon shots, I hate the way he runs out to the field, I hate the way he hops, and I really hate it whe he hops. I do like it when he hops and the ball stays in the park, but that's about it. I hate, hate, hate, that fuckin guy.

And he's got hall numbers, and it pisses me off. Fuck Sammy Sosa. But, he's still getting in the hall... or at least he should, all things being equal.

hate him also, and no way he gets into the HOF, at least not for awhile. You know he doesn't speak English right? Racist........

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

hate him also, and no way he gets into the HOF, at least not for awhile. You know he doesn't speak English right? Racist........

Well, if voters are all up in arms about Mac's alleged roid use, at least the guy didn't try to bolster his juice by corking his bat too. Strike 2 against Slammin Sammy... roid suspicion and busted using the cork. Fucking fucker. I hate that fucking guy.

Lo odio

 

[CCI]

Well, if voters are all up in arms about Mac's alleged roid use, at least the guy didn't try to bolster his juice by corking his bat too. Strike 2 against Slammin Sammy... roid suspicion and busted using the cork. Fucking fucker. I hate that fucking guy.

Lo odio

but he loves America and blows kisses with the peace sign. He is a fucking cheater and he is going to attempt a come back :(
who wants him?

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

but he loves America and blows kisses with the peace sign. He is a fucking cheater and he is going to attempt a come back :(
who wants him?

I can not say this enough, Fuck Sammy Fucking Sosa.

Thanks for giving me another opportunity to get that off my chest CCI.
Mad props my brothah!

 

[tyrus]

have you ever played baseball before? His FP is irrelevant, he couldn't get to balls that most 1B could, meaning he gave the other team hits/extra at-bats. He was immobile. Is it hard to catching the ball while standing on the bag? If you believe FP is the determining factor on how good a 1B he was the you are the one to be laughed at. He was a white Mo Vaughn at 1B. MM was a one dimentional player, I'm not sure how you can argue against that. What did he do that was HOF worthy except hit HR's? If he is in so is Sammy Sosa, and Sammy actually had some SB's on his resume.

If you are interested, I could post my baseball resume. I am not one to brag, but it is pretty impressive. I have played at a pretty high level and coach HS. I am sure you look real smart at your kids Tball games since you actaully know what FP stands for. The other Dads must be impressed.

1st, there is more to playing first than standing on the bag and catching a ball from the 2B (man, I cant believe I am actually being forced to explain this) Sometimes they actaully field groundballs and the other fielders make bad throws.

I will give you the fact that he lost mobility his last few years, but he still made the plays he was suppose to. He just wasnt going deep in the hole anymore. Early on he was considered a good defensive player and WON A GOLD GLOVE. You dont win a GG as a bad 1B.

If FP is irrelevent, why do they keep it? It is a measuring tool to help determine if guys are making plays, not highlight reel plays, but the ones they are suppose to....and for some reason you want to disregard MM having 1 of the best FP in the history of the game. If he was bad, it would be as low as the other HOFers. If you want to say "MM had limited range late in his career" that would be accurate, but for you to say "he was a bad defensive 1B" well, that is just 100% incorrect. If you cant see that, well, I am not question if you've ever played, but.....I wonder how good Peter Gammonds was?

And yes, he was a power hitter, no shit. Pete Rose was singles hitter...so what? There are plenty of PH in the Hall, but evidently you are not willing to compare, so the hell with it.

 

[Mike80]

Well, if voters are all up in arms about Mac's alleged roid use, at least the guy didn't try to bolster his juice by corking his bat too. Strike 2 against Slammin Sammy... roid suspicion and busted using the cork. Fucking fucker. I hate that fucking guy.

Lo odio

Strike Three - he leaves early from games late in the season

 

[The Man]

Early on he was considered a good defensive player and WON A GOLD GLOVE. You dont win a GG as a bad 1B.

Agree with this, sometimes you don't even need to play the position to win a GG. Ask Rafael Palmeiro. Don't you think fielding % is a stat that really is skewed for 1B? They have so many easy putouts compared to other positions.

 

[tyrus]

Agree with this, sometimes you don't even need to play the position to win a GG. Ask Rafael Palmeiro. Don't you think fielding % is a stat that really is skewed for 1B? They have so many easy putouts compared to other positions.

Yes, the FP is skewed if you are comparing it to a SS, 2B or 3B, but I was comparing his to other 1B. there is no doubt a 1B will have a higher FP than other fielders due to the easy POs....that is why I compared him to other 1B. It isnt fair to compare a 1b to other positions.

 

[Buckin' A]

I think Dale Murphy use to eat Pop Rocks before every game....fucking cheater.

 

[Dryden]

An interesting question to me is how many extra home runs juiced players ended up hitting because they were juiced. There is, of course, no real way to measure that, because even if you count the fact that some of the home runs went "just" over the fence versus ones that were crushed, you can't take into account how the player was pitched differently once they started hitting more home runs, where they were in the lineup versus where they would have been, etc. An example: Ken Caminiti, who admitted juicing, went from 13, 13, 13, 18 to 26, 40, 26, 29 once he started hitting the needles...that's an increase of about 13-18 per season or so.

Of course if McGwire and Bonds have juiced, who knows how many extra they did or didn't hit, but I think the increase in Caminiti's numbers indicates there is a tangible benefit, unless hitting all those extra home runs had absolutely nothing to do with extra muscle mass and accelerated recovery generated by steroids, which I would find hard to believe.

The problem with the steroid game is that there is no way to factor that "x" home runs have been created out of thin air by drug use, when it's widely believed that just as many pitchers are juiced as the hitters.

The sample size is very small, but power numbers are UP across the board from where they were five years ago in MLB, and I think that generally, where the pitchers and the hitters are locked in a cat-and-mouse, zero-sum game, the offensive explosion is due to a more tightly wound ball and smaller ballparks.

Using Barry Bonds as an example, would his career numbers change dramatically if he never (presumably) juiced, but also played his entire career in a venue more forgiving of a left handed hitter? Let's be honest, Three Rivers, Candlestick, and AT&T Park are all very, very difficult places to hit home runs. Those mammoth blasts that Barry launches into McCovey Cove are incredible, and he does it with such regularity that viewers forget that something like only five or six other hitters have done that, ever.

Are Barry's numbers less legitimate than those for players in Colorado, Cleveland, Houston, or Philadelphia who presumably play fair?

There are a hundred variables that are effecting the HR numbers, and my feeling is that 'roids aren't as big a factor in baseball as many of us would first think. There's some validity that steroids would actually do more harm for a baseball player than good, since the increased mass would probably be accompanied by decreased range of motion and hand speed -- and despite all of that, when all is said and done, none of that helps you hit a baseball thrown by a MLB pitcher, which I consider one of the most difficult feats of any pro sport.

Steroids didn't help Bonds's batting eye, and that is arguably his best asset -- not his HR power.

Speaking of eyes ... are Tiger Woods or Greg Maddux cheaters since they had Lasik?

 

[CookyPuss]

Interesting blog by Mike Schmidt on the subject. He also comes down on the "it was part of the era" side of the argument. Interestingly, he can't seem to spell McGwire.

http://mikeschmidtcom.blogspot.com/

 

[OSUBasketballJunkie]

Cincy

McGwire's slugging overshadowed by off-field record

BY MIKE LOPRESTI | GANNETT NEWS SERVICE

No more dilly-dallying. They want the baseball Hall of Fame ballot and they want it now, which means the Mark McGwire decision must be made immediately, without further delay or waffling or deliberation.
But we'll get to him in a minute.
First, the easy part.

Continued....

 

[Thump]

have you ever played baseball before?

He was an All-Ohio pitcher who played college ball.

The guy is a fucking bulldog!

 

[harrydangler]

This argument could go in a several different directions but let me throw out a few questions.

Should a one dimensional player go in the Hall of Fame?

If you answer yes, my follow up questions are does it matter that the one dimension was possibly helped through an outside substance?

If one dimensional players should go in, then shouldn't a guy who only hits doubles, or the best singles hitters, or the top saves leaders, etc go in?

If you think McGwire should go in the hall, shouldn't Canseco go in also? They're essentially the same hitter...the only difference in their stat line is 150 homers in McGwire's favor and 150 steals in Canseco's favor.

Actually Canseco has better all around hitting numbers but thats an entirely different argument.

 

[PrincetonBuckeye]

This argument could go in a several different directions but let me throw out a few questions.

Should a one dimensional player go in the Hall of Fame?

If you answer yes, my follow up questions are does it matter that the one dimension was possibly helped through an outside substance?

If one dimensional players should go in, then shouldn't a guy who only hits doubles, or the best singles hitters, or the top saves leaders, etc go in?

If you think McGwire should go in the hall, shouldn't Canseco go in also? They're essentially the same hitter...the only difference in their stat line is 150 homers in McGwire's favor and 150 steals in Canseco's favor.

Actually Canseco has better all around hitting numbers but thats an entirely different argument.

NO...Canseco admitted he used 'roids....There is no way he should be in....End of discussion about Canseco...