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Do you say "Thank you" to waiters for expected tasks?

Biggest tip I ever gave was to a server who I was originally going to give nothing to. He came up and said, "Hey, look, I know you're service has been awful here today. I dont' want to make an excuse, but I'm not normally like this." He proceeded to tell me of all the troubles going on in the Kitchen with some kind of walk - out that had taken place, and how the server staff was having to pick up some of that slack whilst still serving.

So, I figured, not only was he honest about it, but he's actually been working his ass off.
 
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Dryden:

Waiters don't make shit. A full time waitress at a good restaurant might make maybe 20 - 25K a year yet receives jack for benefits and insurance. That's full time, 40+ hours, plus overtime, on her feet for eight solid hours. Screw that!
I guess my questions for you is why enter that job assuming most understand that ahead of time & how much do you feel they deserve to be paid? I'd argue that fast food workers and many workers in factory jobs work harder and either make the same or not a large enough difference for the work they've done and damage to their bodies.
The only time a waiter, waitress, hostess, etc has a shot at getting a pay raise is when the President of the United States mandates one about once every fifteen years -- and they're all still waiting on the insurance and health care.
It is a service job, the average restaurant simply would have to close it's business if it had to insure such workers with benefits. It is a downfall to the job for sure; and should keep many people away from doing the work as a career
WTF? Does anybody aboard this plane speak jive?
...
I think you need to look up the word common in the dictionary, because 'common courtesy' shouldn't be modified by the word 'requirement,' that's pretty much the point of the prefix common. Would you prefer that courtesy be uncommon? Yes, obviously, since being polite to other people is apparently a reward for doing an otherwise thankless, yet necessary job for you as quickly as possible.
You missed my point here (probably my fault). I'm arguing that you are getting too upset over the 'thank you' specifically. I feel there are plenty of ways to be polite to a waiter without saying 'thank you'. I think common courtesy is an obvious need to take with you anywhere you fo; I just am more stingy with my 'thank you's' then most, not more stingy at showing appreciation. To me a 'thank you' just means a little more. (This goes beyond waiters)
Saying "thank you" is not a requirement. Saying "thank you" is not a reward.
By requirement I'm referring to a requirement to not be deemed an asshole by fellow board members. 'Thank you' IS a reward, but as was already pointed out by someone a pretty crappy award.
This was the ending statement in the very first post in this thread. When you have to justify, explain, and apologize for taking a position before the conversation even starts, you've already lost the argument.
I'm not justifying my position of the argument for the sake of winning, I'm sparing myself from a response that would have otherwise been pretty common.
 
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I say "thank you" when they provide a service.

Money can be made as a server if the server is employed at a high-end restaurant... Some of the better country clubs pay their servers an hourly wage (usually $15 or so an hour... which is roughly $30k per year... not great money but not $125-$20k either).

I worked at Damon's while I was in college... some days I made $10-$15 per hour, Other days (if there was a big game on) I'd walk with a few hundred bucks for five hours of work (not to mention the fact servers declare roughly half their tips... so the other half is tax free income :wink2: )...
 
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What if it is the server's fault and no one elses? Do you still tip?

That's the price a server pays for being the "Frontman" of the food service industry. You're the one who takes the blame when something goes wrong. After tips they usually make more money than the cooks and the bussers so that goes with the territory.

Besides don't a lot of servers tip out anyways or is that just for bussers? Not tipping them is proving your point to the people in the back that possibly screwed up.

First if it is only the servers fault I am still goiong to leave something usually around 10% This go for a situation where you see the server just basicly not doing their job... ie talking to fellow employees, watching tv etc...

And actually many places the server doesn't make as much as the cook, some resturants a cook is going to make between 10 to 15 dollars an hour, which is going to be close to what a server is making an hour when you add in the amount of time a server is there that they are only getting paid the 2.13

Most places the server also tips out, but only to the bartender, and the busser, sometimes the hostess. Usually the way the tip out works it is based on sales not on the tip received, and usually it's in the 1.5% of you sales to each area that you tip out to. So say it was a hundred dollar tab, someone may have to tip out as much as 4.5% of that tab to those three positions, so that would be $4.50 that comes out of the servers pocket right there, so if someone say only tips you 5 bucks you only made .50 cents for yourself.

Don't get me wrong I am not defending all servers, I know there are some people out there who should not be waiting tables, I have worked with them and also had some work for me. Some people I have seen get pissed when they get a shitty tip, and I'm just like well what did you expect. Other people I have seen them bust their ass for a table only to get less than 10%. The whole point I think is for people to understand it's not an easy job. I think movies, like waiting, sometimes give people the wrong idea. Most people that are servers like their job 99% of the time, dealing with the customers is actually the easy part most of the time. It's dealing with the management, or the cooks, or host etc that takes the most out of a server.

The whole point of the thread for the most part is if someone says thank you when I drop of a water they get a your welcome, or a no problem, if they don't say thank you I', not offended. It is the people who come in, and are in a bad mood and decide to take it out on the server that I think are the problems.
 
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What do you say when you order a drink? "I want a Coke" rather than "I'll have a Coke please". Anyone who doesn't use "please" or "thank you" needs to learn some manners. It isn't that hard.

If the waiter is taking my order "I'll have a coke" or if i'm at a bar or for some reason requesting my drink outside of the main order "Could I have a coke please" 'sure thing' "Thank you"
 
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First if it is only the servers fault I am still goiong to leave something usually around 10% This go for a situation where you see the server just basicly not doing their job... ie talking to fellow employees, watching tv etc..

Why?

Because you feel sorry for how much they are making?

What then is their motivation to improve their service if people are going to tip them for being a waste of space?
 
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I agree with everyone that a tip should not be required. Although if someone bust thier ass, then it is obviously a shame that they get bad tips. I've never met a great waiter though that didn't do alright for themselves when it all is said in done.
 
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Why?

Because you feel sorry for how much they are making?

What then is their motivation to improve their service if people are going to tip them for being a waste of space?

Part of it yes, since indeed I am a server myself right now. I will be honest for the most part I don't even notice the service when I am at a resturant, which I think is how it should be with a good server. If I'm at a resturant I am there for a reason and becoming buddies with the server isn't one of them.

Also being a former manager I am more willing to talk to a manager if I really feel the service sucked. and if that doesn't seem to help I just won't go there again.
 
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Recent USA Today article on just this thing. I've actually personally experienced this during my internship with P&G. The VP of our division takes us out to Montgomery Inn and, like someone flipped a switch in their head, some of the other interns acted like completely different people to the waiters. Hope they weren't given another job offer...

CEOs say how you treat a waiter can predict a lot about character <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" height="25" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td>Updated 4/17/2006 10:45 AM ET</td> <td align="right"> E-mail | Save | Print | <script language="JavaScript"> var tempshowReprintSSI = &quot;&quot;; if(window.showReprintSSI) { tempshowReprintSSI = showReprintSSI; } if ((navigator.os.indexOf(&quot;Mac&quot:wink:==1) && (navigator.type==2)) { // macIE if((document.forms.hiddenValForm.hiddenMacPrintValue.value == &quot;0&quot:wink: || (document.forms.hiddenValForm.hiddenMacPrintValue.value==&quot;2&quot:wink:) { if(document.forms.hiddenValForm.hiddenMacPrintValue.value == &quot;2&quot:wink:{ document.forms.hiddenValForm.hiddenMacPrintValue.value = &quot;0&quot;; } else{ document.forms.hiddenValForm.hiddenMacPrintValue.value = &quot;1&quot;; } if(tempshowReprintSSI == 'showReprintSSI'){ writeReprintLink(); } writeSubscribeToLink(); } else { document.forms.hiddenValForm.hiddenMacPrintValue.value = &quot;2&quot;; } } else {// non macIE - write top and bottom if(tempshowReprintSSI == 'showReprintSSI'){ writeReprintLink(); } writeSubscribeToLink(); } function writeReprintLink(){ document.write('Reprints | '); } function writeSubscribeToLink(){ var url = document.location.toString(); var urlArray = url.split(&quot;/&quot:wink: var nurl = &quot;&quot;; for (i = 3; i < urlArray.length - 1; i++) { if(i<urlArray.length-2){ nurl += urlArray + &quot;|&quot;; } else { nurl += urlArray; } } document.write('Subscribe to stories like this http://images.usatoday.com/marketing/_images/rssbox.gif&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; alt=&quot;&quot; />'); } </script>Reprints | Subscribe to stories like this </td></tr> </tbody></table> <table style="float: left;" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="245"> <tbody><tr><td><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td colspan="2"></td><td rowspan="3" valign="top" width="20">
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</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="vaLink" height="18" width="80"> Enlarge</td> <td class="photoCredit" align="right" width="165">By H. Darr Beiser, USA TODAY</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1">
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</td> </tr> <tr><td class="photoCredit" colspan="2"> Raytheon CEO Bill Swanson chats with waiter Goran Gvozderac at the Ritz-Carlton Pentagon City in suburban Washington, D.C. Swanson makes it a point to treat wait staff well. </td> </tr> </tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
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SWANSON'S UNWRITTEN RULES</td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" valign="top">
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</td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="vaText">1: Learn to say, "I don't know." If used when appropriate, it will be used often.
2: It is easier to get into something than to get out of it.
3: If you are not criticized, you may not be doing much
4: Look for what is missing. Many know how to improve what's there; few can see what isn't there.
5: Presentation rule: When something appears on a slide presentation, assume the world knows about it and deal with it accordingly.
6. Work for a boss to whom you can tell it like it is. Remember, you can't pick your family, but you can pick your boss.
7: Constantly review developments to make sure that the actual benefits are what they were supposed to be. Avoid Newton's Law.
8: However menial and trivial your early assignments may appear, give them your best effort.
9: Persistence or tenacity is the disposition to persevere in spite of difficulties, discouragement or indifference. Don't be known as a good starter but a poor finisher!
10: In doing your project, don't wait for others; go after them and make sure it gets done.
11: Confirm the instructions you give others, and their commitments, in writing. Don't assume it will get done.
12: Don't be timid: Speak up, express yourself and promote your ideas.
13: Practice shows that those who speak the most knowingly and confidently often end up with the assignment to get the job done.
14: Strive for brevity and clarity in oral and written reports.
15: Be extremely careful in the accuracy of your statements.
16: Don't overlook the fact that you are working for a boss. Keep him or her informed. Whatever the boss wants, within the bounds of integrity, takes top priority.
17: Promises, schedules and estimates are important instruments in a well-run business. You must make promises — don't lean on the often-used phrase: "I can't estimate it because it depends on many uncertain factors."
18: Never direct a complaint to the top; a serious offense is to "cc" a person's boss on a copy of a complaint before the person has a chance to respond to the complaint.
19: When interacting with people outside the company, remember that you are always representing the company. Be especially careful of your commitments.
20: Cultivate the habit of boiling matters down to the simplest terms: the proverbial "elevator speech" is the best way.
21: Don't get excited in engineering emergencies: Keep your feet on the ground.
22: Cultivate the habit of making quick, clean-cut decisions.
23: When making decisions, the "pros" are much easier to deal with than the "cons." Your boss wants to see both.
24: Don't ever lose your sense of humor.
25: Have fun at what you do. It will be reflected in you work. No one likes a grump except another grump!
26: Treat the name of your company as if it were your own.
27: Beg for the bad news.
28: You remember 1/3 of what you read, 1/2 of what people tell you, but 100% of what you feel.
29: You can't polish a sneaker.
30: When facing issues or problems that are becoming drawn-out, "short them to the ground."
31: When faced with decisions, try to look at them as if you were one level up in the organization. Your perspective will change quickly.
32: A person who is nice to you but rude to the waiter, or to others, is not a nice person. (This rule never fails).
33: Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, an amateur built an ark that survived a flood while a large group of professionals built the Titanic!
Postscript: The qualities of leadership boil down to confidence, dedication, integrity and love.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" height="20">
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</td></tr><tr><td class="photoCaption" align="right" valign="bottom">USA TODAY</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" height="20" valign="top">
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</td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="photoCaption">Office Depot CEO Steve Odland spilled purple sorbet onto the white gown of an obviously rich and important woman while working at an upscale French restaurant. But the woman dealt with it in a kind and dignified manner.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" height="20">
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</td></tr></tbody></table> <script language="javascript">swapContent('firstHeader','applyHeader');</script>By Del Jones, USA TODAY
Office Depot CEO Steve Odland remembers like it was yesterday working in an upscale French restaurant in Denver.
The purple sorbet in cut glass he was serving tumbled onto the expensive white gown of an obviously rich and important woman. "I watched in slow motion ruining her dress for the evening," Odland says. "I thought I would be shot on sight."
Thirty years have passed, but Odland can't get the stain out of his mind, nor the woman's kind reaction. She was startled, regained composure and, in a reassuring voice, told the teenage Odland, "It's OK. It wasn't your fault." When she left the restaurant, she also left the future Fortune 500 CEO with a life lesson: You can tell a lot about a person by the way he or she treats the waiter.
Odland isn't the only CEO to have made this discovery. Rather, it seems to be one of those rare laws of the land that every CEO learns on the way up. It's hard to get a dozen CEOs to agree about anything, but all interviewed agree with the Waiter Rule.
They acknowledge that CEOs live in a Lake Wobegon world where every dinner or lunch partner is above average in their deference. How others treat the CEO says nothing, they say. But how others treat the waiter is like a magical window into the soul.
And beware of anyone who pulls out the power card to say something like, "I could buy this place and fire you," or "I know the owner and I could have you fired." Those who say such things have revealed more about their character than about their wealth and power.
Whoever came up with the waiter observation "is bang spot on," says BMW North America President Tom Purves, a native of Scotland, a citizen of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland, who lives in New York City with his Norwegian wife, Hilde, and works for a German company. That makes him qualified to speak on different cultures, and he says the waiter theory is true everywhere.
The CEO who came up with it, or at least first wrote it down, is Raytheon CEO Bill Swanson. He wrote a booklet of 33 short leadership observations called Swanson's Unwritten Rules of Management. Raytheon has given away 250,000 of the books.
Among those 33 rules is only one that Swanson says never fails: "A person who is nice to you but rude to the waiter, or to others, is not a nice person."
Swanson says he first noticed this in the 1970s when he was eating with a man who became "absolutely obnoxious" to a waiter because the restaurant did not stock a particular wine.
"Watch out for people who have a situational value system, who can turn the charm on and off depending on the status of the person they are interacting with," Swanson writes. "Be especially wary of those who are rude to people perceived to be in subordinate roles."
The Waiter Rule also applies to the way people treat hotel maids, mailroom clerks, bellmen and security guards. Au Bon Pain co-founder Ron Shaich, now CEO of Panera Bread, says he was interviewing a candidate for general counsel in St. Louis. She was "sweet" to Shaich but turned "amazingly rude" to someone cleaning the tables, Shaich says. She didn't get the job.
Shaich says any time candidates are being considered for executive positions at Panera Bread, he asks his assistant, Laura Parisi, how they treated her, because some applicants are "pushy, self-absorbed and rude" to her before she transfers the call to him.
Just about every CEO has a waiter story to tell. Dave Gould, CEO of Witness Systems, experienced the rule firsthand when a waitress dumped a full glass of red wine on the expensive suit of another CEO during a contract negotiation. The victim CEO put her at ease with a joke about not having had time to shower that morning. A few days later, when there was an apparent impasse during negotiations, Gould trusted that CEO to have the character to work out any differences.
CEOs who blow up at waiters have an ego out of control, Gould says. "They're saying, 'I'm better. I'm smarter.' Those people tend not to be collaborative."
"To some people, speaking in a condescending manner makes them feel important, which to me is a total turnoff," says Seymour Holtzman, chairman of Casual Male Retail Group, which operates big-and-tall men's clothing stores including Casual Male XL.
How people were raised
Such behavior is an accurate predictor of character because it isn't easily learned or unlearned but rather speaks to how people were raised, says Siki Giunta, CEO of U.S. technology company Managed Objects, a native of Rome who once worked as a London bartender.
More recently, she had a boss who would not speak directly to the waiter but would tell his assistant what he wanted to eat, and the assistant would tell the waiter in a comical three-way display of pomposity. What did Giunta learn about his character? "That he was demanding and could not function well without a lot of hand-holding from his support system," she said.
It's somewhat telling, Giunta says, that the more elegant the restaurant, the more distant and invisible the wait staff is. As if the more important the customer, the less the wait staff matters. People view waiters as their temporary personal employees. Therefore, how executives treat waiters probably demonstrates how they treat their actual employees, says Sara Lee CEO Brenda Barnes, a former waitress and postal clerk, who says she is a demanding boss but never shouts at or demeans an employee.
"Sitting in the chair of CEO makes me no better of a person than the forklift operator in our plant," she says. "If you treat the waiter, or a subordinate, like garbage, guess what? Are they going to give it their all? I don't think so."
CEOs aren't the only ones who have discovered the Waiter Rule. A November survey of 2,500 by It's Just Lunch, a dating service for professionals, found that being rude to waiters ranks No. 1 as the worst in dining etiquette, at 52%, way ahead of blowing your nose at the table, at 35%.
Waiters say that early in a relationship, women will pull them aside to see how much their dates tipped, to get a read on their frugality and other tendencies. They are increasingly discussing boorish behavior by important customers at www.waiterrant.net and other blogs. They don't seem to mind the demanding customer, such as those who want meals prepared differently because of high blood pressure. But they have contempt for the arrogant customer.
Rule works with celebrities, too
The Waiter Rule also applies to celebrities, says Jimmy Rosemond, CEO of agency Czar Entertainment, who has brokered deals for Mike Tyson, Mario Winans and Guerilla Black. Rosemond declines to name names, but he remembers one dinner episode in Houston a few years back with a rude divisional president of a major music company.
When dinner was over, Rosemond felt compelled to apologize to the waiter on the way out. "I said, 'Please forgive my friend for acting like that.' It's embarrassing. They go into rages for simple mistakes like forgetting an order."
Rosemond says that particular music executive also treated his assistants and interns poorly — and was eventually fired.
Odland says he saw all types of people 30 years ago as a busboy. "People treated me wonderfully and others treated me like dirt. There were a lot of ugly people. I didn't have the money or the CEO title at the time, but I had the same intelligence and raw ability as I have today.
"Why would people treat me differently? Your value system and ethics need to be constant at all times regardless of who you are dealing with."
Holtzman grew up in the coal-mining town of Wilkes-Barre, Pa., and in the 1950s saw opportunity as a waiter 90 miles away in the Catskill Mountains, where customers did not tip until the end of the week. When they tipped poorly, he would say: "Sir, will you and your wife be tipping separately?"
"I saw a lot of character, or the lack thereof," says Holtzman, who says he can still carry three dishes in his right hand and two in his left.
"But for some twist of fate in life, they're the waiter and you're the one being waited on," Barnes says.
 
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buckeyefool: I'm really perplexed by some of yout comments here especially since you said you worked as a waiter. What kind of place did you work in? If it was something like the neighborhood pizza shop then I understand, if you are talking about either a casual family or upsclae resturant I am surprised. I guess my first question is why do you feel waiters make to much money? Is there a difference in someone who is in college and living with mom and dad then a person who waits tables for a living? howe much do you think a server should make? You do know most resturants pay servers 2.13 and hour plus tips right?


I think that many waiters make too much money because I've worked at 2 restaurants (A Italian place and a neighborhood pizza shop); I've also had about eight other jobs in my lifetime. To me the waiter job was the easiest dollar for my effort. This is true mostly because of the fact that as most have pointed out, it is frowned upon to tip the worst of waiters 10%.

Is there anything different between a college student living with his parents and a waiter? Yes; If you're implying that the student doesn't pay for his college and mooches off his parents, while the waiter is more independent, I'd be hard to argue with assuming the waiters parent didn't help them out. The other difference is that you don't get paid money to be a college student and a large percent of people fail out or don't finish college making it a fairly large financial risk on an individual. I agree it is unfortunate when teenagers don't have a very easy route to go through college, but if it's the road that they paint for themselves then i have no problem with saying I think there is a difference. Being a student is a job that you pay to have.

I feel your average full time waiter/waitress should make roughly 23K a year.

I knew the avg. was low, but assumed about four dollars.

As for the high school comment. No it's not okay for them not to leave a tip of leave a small tip, that is still a table that was taken up for a amount of time in which a sever could have made money off of. To me it goes for high schoolers or any cheapskates....if you can't afford a tip don't go out to a nice place, go to a fast food joint or eat at home. You can not depend on someone else leaving a big tip to make up for the lack of one from someone else.

If you remove kids from going to restaurants you are going to kill the restruanat that you work FORs money. I feel that a teenager who eats in restaurants more as a kid will also probably eat there more as an adult and it is just a period of time that benefits restaurants and screws over waiters, although not enough to get worked up about unless it happens consistently. Kids need to remember when they tip poorly though, so when they are older they are able to make up for there past now that they have the funds. I'm not saying it's okay to completely stiff the waiter, but it's acceptable to tip low.

Why do you not like the percent system? Overall if you go into a restaurant that has higher priced items the server has to be more knowledgeable as to what is on the menu. They need to be able to answers questions quickly and accurately. They need to know how things are cooked and every ingredient that is in that item. Would you rather have a restaurant just jack up the prices in order to make sure that they can have enough staff on to wait the tables?

If you need help and knowledge about the order you are making and the waiter gives it to you then you should be paid more. However, lobster is priced based on availability. So should someone who waits tables on the coast that serves lobster get tipped less then someone in the mid-west.
Again if I need the waiters help on making my order or describing a dish to me, I'll tip them better, but just because I select a salad lobster (or other high priced single item) does not typically mean the waiter has to put out more effort then if I buy a salad.
 
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Another part of the equation is that these people are preparing the food you're going to be eating--and doing it in the back where you can't see them. I've worked in food service and seen enough things, and heard many other disgusting stories, to make me go out of my way to be extra nice to my servers--including a please or thank you at every chance.


On an issue related to tipping--does anyone here NOT tip on tax? That's always been one of my dad's rules, since tax is already a built-in percentage of the price of a meal.
 
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Thank you Ma'am

As I have mentioned a million times I travel a great deal.
I always say please and thank you, not only to wait staff but stewardesses, cabbies, hotel front desk people and anyone else I encounter in business. My wife would say most of these people are women and I am just a flirt but that is not totally true.:!
I am a demanding customer so if something does not go right I will let you know about it but it has to be really bad for me to become rude.

I do a lot of business over the internet and where there are places for notes I always write please and thank you. I had a leasing agent that worked with me on dozens of deals. I finally met her once and she told her team how nice I was. Her opinion was on based on nothing more than emails and online quotes that included please and thank you. She has never read my posts on the political forums!
 
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