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Coronavirus (COVID-19) is too exciting for adults to discuss (CLOSED)

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MililaniBuckeye said:
And was one of how many college basketball players who have played since 1990? Not trying the trivialized his death, but his was one of an astronomically low number of college athletes who have died from heart disease/defects.
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I know you’re not.

Hey, I’m still ticking. Hahaha!! I played against him a few months earlier which is why it was so memorable to me.
 
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DaddyBigBucks said:


Doctor says "Hey, this works with my patients"



Other Doctors: "Where are the double-blind studies"



Patients of 1st Doctor: "What do you think he is, the Mayo clinic? It worked for all of us"


OK, admittedly the first doctor calls it a "silver bullet". He should know better than to say that. But I have seen the "not invented here" tendency in the healthcare industry (I work for a medical device supplier). I do have to wonder how much of that is going on here.

Above are the short videos that give both sides. Here is an interview with him in which he claims that the low death rates in Japan, Taiwan, etc are because those countries are also using inhaled steroids.

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DaddyBigBucks said:
seems odd to call it an improvement in the available treatments

dexamethasone has been available and has been used for months. Same appears to be true of the inhaled steroids

What’s new, and the main difference between the treatments, is that double-blind, peer-reviewed studies in the uk have recently been published, and they prove dexamethasone to be a positive factor in survival. All that we appear to have for the inhaled steroids is anecdotes.

What is important to understand is that doctors are not required to wait for the studies to be done. The FDA allows off-label use at a doctor’s discretion, they just forbid the drug companies from advertising the off-label use. That’s a vast oversimplification, but for this discussion it’s good enough to be getting on with
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Update on the use of Inhaled Cortical Steroids. This is a bit late, so may have been posted by someone else already. I've been so swamped at work I haven't kept track of the Covid-19 news.

To recap, a Texas doctor claimed that he was using inhaled cortical steroids to great effect. Other doctors immediately excoriate him publicly. Some doctors can be very touchy about someone else coming up with a treatment that they hadn't thought of, but what they were saying about this guy was way beyond the usual "not invented here" stuff. It seems that politics affects people's ability to see clearly in the medical community as well as on Buckeye Planet.

What was most bizarre about the criticism was the righteous indignation expressed at the lack of peer-reviewed double-blind studies. A new treatment for a new disease... When did they expect that this study could have been done? In a time machine?

Fast forward to the point in time when such a study WAS completed (a couple of weeks ago) Dr Dan Nicolau of Oxford University (the same place that did the study on dexamethasone) announced results that confirm that inhaled cortical steroids are indeed extremely beneficial. He went further and noted that, worldwide, patients with asthma and copd are UNDER-represented among patients with severe disease, although they were expected to be at increased risk for the disease. He cited (in very scientific, uncertain terms) their "habitual use of inhaled steroids" as the probable reason that such people are not developing severe disease at nearly the rate of the normal population.

He noted at one point that, as far as he knows, the WHO is still not recommending systemic steroids, while the science has gone farther and has confirmed that not only systemic, but inhaled steroids are proven to be beneficial. I definitely agree with those who say, "let's listen to the doctors". But please note that there are doctors on both sides of every issue. The doctors who are not attached to government and UN organizations are the ones who have been vindicated most often, and it's not close. Doctors are people. Some are more scientifically minded than others, and they are far from immune to competing or even perverse incentives.

EDIT: I typed most of this before I finished watching the video. The only thing to add is that Oxford has several Inhaled Cortical Steroid (ICS) studies underway and that more announcements will be forthcoming before the end of 2020.
 
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Blood plasma as a treatment has a long history. How efficacious it actually is is up for research. And debate.
Steroids as a Covid treatment is more current and early data shows a solid effectiveness. (taking a steroid may have saved me in March when I contracted Covid in my doctors waiting room)
The longer this pandemic runs the more effective treatments will be found. This all drives the deaths down but doesn't address the numbers getting Covid. There will be a price to pay for that eventually.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30314-3/fulltext (steroids)

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30141-9/fulltext (blood plasma)
 
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