Coronavirus (COVID-19) is too exciting for adults to discuss (CLOSED)

[scarletmike]

And therein lies the rub even when looking at opening things at a state/level region. You can't really quarantine the metro areas and keep them on lockdown while the rest of a state goes about its business, at least not effectively. What does it look like when the statewide infection rate ticks up even a few percent? Are the facilities in the rest of the state able to handle it? Best case scenario you see a slight decrease in the metro areas and you break even on facility capacity across the state, bringing distant cases to your metro areas to treat.

There's no good answer to the problem, at least not without a serious increase in testing and subsequent tracing. And even then the answer only goes from "bad" to "it could be worse."

 

[Jagdaddy]

Unfortunately I think we'll be very lucky if there is a season. Or maybe they can play starting in October.

My SWAG is a conference season only and, since there won't be OOC games to base conference strength on, an expanded eight team playoff with all Big 5 conference champions and three at large bids.

 

[Thump]

If we haven't generally reached that point(New York city) we probably won't reach that point. That being said a lot of deaths will still happen in the near future without readily available treatment. I hope and believe that multiple "treatments' are just a month or two out. That would take pressure off the "system" and give more freedom. Gain us more time that is critical right now.

Keep praying.

 

[Thump]

I know it would suck for gameday, but assuming students go back to school could they have the games with empty stands? Maybe only allow team family members and students with season tickets in as long as they spread out. That way there would still be some level of social distancing, but maintain a home field advantage. If we do have sports in the fall I wouldn't be surprised to see temperature scans and masks handed out when fans enter the stadium. Until there is a vaccine I think masks are going to be mandatory for large groups. I see the same type of thing for amusement parks if they open this year. Need to get my collectors edition masks from Disney in the fall.

 

[OSU_D/]

One absolute triage determinant should be smoking. If you're a smoker, you go to the back of the line for an ICU bed or ventilator. A) You're likely to kack out anyway, so why not give it to someone with a fighting chance. and B) You've been warned about smoking your whole life and yet made the conscious decision to ignore those warnings, and now we're supposed to all weep because it's biting you in the ass. and C) You never should have put your Kools out on Billy Ray Valentine's floor.

I would have agreed with this 24 hrs ago. However, the data from France is keeping my mind open to smoking not being a factor.

French researchers suggest nicotine could protect against Covid-19

.....


Researchers from several institutions saw that of the 11,000 or so patients hospitalised in Paris public hospitals for Covid-19 at the start of April, only 8.5 per cent were smokers, compared to 25.4 per cent of the general public.

http://www.rfi.fr/en/science-and-te...ggest-nicotine-could-protect-against-covid-19

 

[muffler dragon]

I would have agreed with this 24 hrs ago. However, the data from France is keeping my mind open to smoking not being a factor.



http://www.rfi.fr/en/science-and-te...ggest-nicotine-could-protect-against-covid-19

Which would augment the concept behind vaping as a cigarette alternative as well.

 

[AKAK]

I would have agreed with this 24 hrs ago. However, the data from France is keeping my mind open to smoking not being a factor.



http://www.rfi.fr/en/science-and-te...ggest-nicotine-could-protect-against-covid-19

Which would augment the concept behind vaping as a cigarette alternative as well.

I saw the France smoking thing the other day, and I was like... yeah, I mean that's weird but its one study, I would however not be surprised if its much less important than age or sex (notice you don't see any 102 dudes pulling through, there's a few theories on that but the male death rate is considerably higher)

As to the vaping thing... so, last week I'm social distancing in line from my favorite cheeseball old school italian restaurant that I go to every Thurs for carryout, and this dude is talking to this other guy about how if you see someone vaping to stay away from them because they are weaponizing virus with the vapor droplets... (if they are infected) and then goes, I'm in healthcare, I know how it gets spread. (I mean, I guess the janitor at the urgent care is "in healthcare" as far as that goes) but I thought it an interesting if most likely crackpot theory.

But, now y'all are gonna give the vapers the stink eye and move far away, admit it.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

It's just more unpleasant to look at it on an individualistic level when they are saying "Tony, you are 80 and have COPD, while Angela over there is 12 and otherwise healthy. Sorry, dude, she gets the last ventilator." Versus "60,000 more senior citizens with various comorbidities are going to die from COVID if we open things up but 60,000 mostly healthy working people are going to die from various ailments related to unemployment/poverty/stress if we don't". It's the same decision, but on an individual level.

So what does the doctor say to the 80-year-old when Gramps sees a ventilator being hooked up to the 12-year-old while none is provided to him? That's right, he/she is going to have to tell him that he just lost the tie-breaker solely because of his age.

1. It's not arbitrary. It's developed by medical professionals to help other medical professionals make a decision when there are only wrong answers.

It's still essentially and play-and-play method of determining who gets treated. No other factors are considered. Joe has 10 points and Jane has 20 points so Joe gets the ventilator (“Total scores would range from one to eight, with priority for ventilators given to those with lower scores.")

2. In a situation where there is one ventilator available and 3 patients equally in need, it is unfair to make the doctor make the decision unilaterally. They are being forced to make a one-sided decision on who lives and who dies.

Triage is part of a doctor's job.

 

[sparcboxbuck]

Which would augment the concept behind vaping as a cigarette alternative as well.

Actually, not so much. The size of the inhalant from vape is much smaller than it is for a standard cigarette and as such penetrates further. Have been told by a friend in the medical community that during this mess that vaping may be even more dangerous. Chew gum or dip if you want your nicotine.

 

[muffler dragon]

I saw the France smoking thing the other day, and I was like... yeah, I mean that's weird but its one study, I would however not be surprised if its much less important than age or sex (notice you don't see any 102 dudes pulling through, there's a few theories on that but the male death rate is considerably higher)

Undoubtedly.

As to the vaping thing... so, last week I'm social distancing in line from my favorite cheeseball old school italian restaurant that I go to every Thurs for carryout, and this dude is talking to this other guy about how if you see someone vaping to stay away from them because they are weaponizing virus with the vapor droplets... (if they are infected) and then goes, I'm in healthcare, I know how it gets spread. (I mean, I guess the janitor at the urgent care is "in healthcare" as far as that goes) but I thought it an interesting if most likely crackpot theory.

But, now y'all are gonna give the vapers the stink eye and move far away, admit it.

As a vaper myself, my stink eye is strong. As to the vapor droplets consideration, I'm not exactly buying it. What I would believe though is that because you see someone's exhale more than usual, then you may know where not to walk. Other than that, meh.

 

[AKAK]

Undoubtedly.

As a vaper myself, my stink eye is strong. As to the vapor droplets consideration, I'm not exactly buying it. What I would believe though is that because you see someone's exhale more than usual, then you may know where not to walk. Other than that, meh.

Like I said, I think he was the janitor.

 

[muffler dragon]

Actually, not so much. The size of the inhalant from vape is much smaller than it is for a standard cigarette and as such penetrates further. Have been told by a friend in the medical community that during this mess that vaping may be even more dangerous. Chew gum or dip if you want your nicotine.

I should have noted that I was speaking just from a carcinogen quantity amount while getting nicotine. Obviously gum would be best. Dip may be.

 

[sparcboxbuck]

I should have noted that I was speaking just from a carcinogen quantity amount while getting nicotine. Obviously gum would be best. Dip may be.

All good. And don’t get me wrong, nicotine is without question, my favorite drug... I understand how you’re looking at it. Smoke ‘em if you got ‘em!

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

So what does the doctor say to the 80-year-old when Gramps sees a ventilator being hooked up to the 12-year-old while none is provided to him? That's right, he/she is going to have to tell him that he just lost the tie-breaker solely because of his age.

And without the tiebreaker, the doc is going to tell him what? "Somebody else needs it more and we will get you on one as soon as we can". The tiebreaker is just helping determine who needs it more.

This is a difficult philosophical debate and something that's been a common question about self-driving cars. If the car is 100% going to hit either a child or an old person and there is no possibility of avoidance, the car HAS to be programmed on how to make that choice. So how do you write the program? Apparently, CA would write it to rundown the old person.

It's still essentially and play-and-play method of determining who gets treated. No other factors are considered. Joe has 10 points and Jane has 20 points so Joe gets the ventilator (“Total scores would range from one to eight, with priority for ventilators given to those with lower scores.")


Triage is part of a doctor's job.

So how you propose a doctor determine who gets priority access to the 1 ventilator available? Patient need? That's always going to be the first factor that is going to be considered. This is NOT superseding the doctor's medical expertise on who needs it more, it is supplementing that knowledge should the doctor find him or herself in a position where there are two equally needful patients.

Sen. Richard Pan, a medical doctor, told the Times that creating a blueprint for a crisis that may come was vital, asserting, “That’s where the rubber meets the road. You can put [guidelines] out and have people discuss them, or if you don’t have them when the crisis comes, each person at the bedside is figuring it out for themselves. At least we have standards and an opportunity to discuss it

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

And without the tiebreaker, the doc is going to tell him what? "Somebody else needs it more and we will get you on one as soon as we can". The tiebreaker is just helping determine who needs it more.

The tie-breaker "determines" squat. It already mandates that young get treated first, old last. It doesn't take into account the that 67-year-old is a professor at a world-renowned university and the 38-year-old is a registered sex offender.

So how you propose a doctor determine who gets priority access to the 1 ventilator available? Patient need?

Gee, how about his/her medical expertise and first-hand knowledge of the specific situation?