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Coronavirus (COVID-19) is too exciting for adults to discuss (CLOSED)

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Yes. It's true. Everyone has had it on their phones since basically February.

It comes on an APP that you download. You can also get it through a common payment APP called Alipay, or a messaging APP called Wechat, both of which everybody has on their phones. Then it checks to see where you've been (I'm guessing based on GPS info and phone company info and car / train / taxi / bus details when you travel). These APPs, when you download them and register ask for your personal information and ID and whatnot, so I'm sure there are back doors built it for the government to keep track of people and to make sure people are where they're supposed to be... and this isn't just during corona, it's always been this way that the government keeps track of everybody, all the time, everywhere.

If you have young children or family who don't have phones you can set your account up to include their names so they can also move around during the outbreak. They are color-coded. Green means you can move around the area where you are living (everybody has, as a rule in China always, to register their "home town" where they are resident), yellow means that maybe you haven't finished your 14-day quarantine or that you traveled outside your home area, and red means that you've traveled to an affected area (Hubei or an another country which has experienced an outbreak) or that you've come into contact with a confirmed case.

It's "real time". That means that each time you go somewhere they ask you for it and you have to run the check. Just cuz you're green right now doesn't mean you'll stay green indefinitely. I know people who had green codes that suddenly changed to red when it was discovered that they'd possibly come into contact (maybe on a train or in a restaurant, etc.) with a confirmed case after contact tracing. So, basically, it constantly updates. If you try and get through a checkpoint by showing them a picture of your QR code (which maybe you took yesterday), they'll ask you to go to the APP and update it and show them the updated one.

I think it's great if it helps contain and stabilize things and helps to get thing back up and running. I'm sure there are libertarian arguments against it. But, like I said, for me it's been really good because it's allowed me to move around. Hasn't hampered my movement, though, as a foreigner, I tend to try and keep a low profile during this outbreak. Other foreigners... not so much. They seem bound and determined to show everybody that they "ain't skerd" and refuse to let the virus bully them into giving up their "freedoms". For sure there are folks on this board who would pull out their shotguns if anybody told them that they had to comply with this requirement. To each his own...

This is just my experience. I'm sure if you look around on the net you'll be able to find anecdotal stories which paint a different picture from what my experience.

For me it's clear what China is and what to expect when living / working here. I think some folks get fooled by the "capitalist" trappings and want to believe or expect that they're living in a place like London or New York or Paris. It's easy to forget, lights and glitter and advanced tech and all, this is still, in many ways, Mao's communist China and every foreigner should remind themselves of that all the time. The fact that you see nice cars on the streets, or people wearing the latest fashions or enjoying pop / rap / hip-hop music, and getting tatoos doesn't change the underlying fact.

Here's what the Shanghai one (where I am) looks like:

b4b016cf-a12a-4a3e-80b5-7596f38940da_0.jpg
Thanks for the info. That's what it sounded like when I saw the story on it.

It's both impressive and frightening to realize that they can change somebody's status from green to red based on that person sitting close on a train to another person that's already red. It allows them to get some control over potential clusters fairly quickly.

I don't think there's any way something like that would be accepted inside the USA. At least not knowingly, and not at this point in time.

Stay green.
 
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Yes, but considering their options, I think that it’s hard to completely fault the voters. Kinda hard to separate the two in that regard.
Yet the two parties wouldn't exist without substantial support. For now anyways it is within the voters power to change. Continuing to support a 2 party system though is going to keep leading to the same mediocre at best results.
 
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It's both impressive and frightening
Yep. Absolutely.

... to realize that they can change somebody's status from green to red based on that person sitting close on a train to another person that's already red. It allows them to get some control over potential clusters fairly quickly.
If you're red, you can't go anywhere, let alone to use public transportation. So it's very unlikely that you will sit next to somebody who is "red". What can happen is that a day or a week later that person you were sitting next to gets infected, or it's found that they came in contact with somebody who was asymptomatic at the time, etc., and then you get turned "red". It's like dominoes.

I don't think there's any way something like that would be accepted inside the USA. At least not knowingly, and not at this point in time.
Absolutely not.

Stay green.
You too... :paranoid:
 
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If you're red, you can't go anywhere, let alone to use public transportation. So it's very unlikely that you will sit next to somebody who is "red". What can happen is that a day or a week later that person you were sitting next to gets infected, or it's found that they came in contact with somebody who was asymptomatic at the time, etc., and then you get turned "red". It's like dominoes.
I don't think there's any way something like that would be accepted inside the USA. At least not knowingly, and not at this point in time.
Absolutely not.

Do you even Facebook bro?
 
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Clearly there are "issues" on both sides of the political / social spectrum. Thankfully, I'm not at or near either of those edges, personally.

If I was an artist or a writer or somebody whose calling was to call attention to stuff that the powers-that-be would rather not deal with, then I wouldn't be here. There are serious issue with a guy like Ay Wei Wei not being able to express himself. Some of China's greatest creative minds have emigrated to the West, and probably for this exact reason.

To put things in perspective, though, this kind of tracking has been going on here in China since the beginning of time. It's just how stuff is done and people know it and they make decisions accordingly. I also tend to think that people in the West are naive to think that it doesn't happen there to some degree, but that's a hole other hornet's nest. I'm just saying that there isn't, conveniently, just one "bad guy" or "rogue state" in the world at any given time. And "freedoms" and "civil liberties" look different for different people.

Yes... the consequences of refusal are harsh. You get whisked away and that's it.

Having said that, are you ABSOLUTELY certain that you're not already marked?

That final question is quite provocative. I can’t say what the government is doing with my digital footprint. Is it being collected? I’m absolutely sure of that. How it’s being used, that I’m not certain about. I am convinced that when it comes to being on their radar for something, the availability of the data for their use is not in question. But to suggest that it’s actively being used to track me as an individual, I’m not sure. What I am sure of is that I’m not high enough on any radar that it’s worth their time or the disk space that my data consumes.

I do work in an industry where I have access to an amazing amount of digital data (data science in marketing). The industry, for the most part, is pretty good about self governing use of the data / privacy because we know that if we don’t, that data will go away. In anonymous channels (digital display, social media, etc.) all information that can allow one to trace data back to the identifiable person (think: name / address) is decoupled from the data. On a daily basis I’m working with data from pretty much all the top of mind publishers and social media platforms. In many / most cases we can track data back to a device and person... and track that person over multiple devices and over time and across locations... but I still do not have the ability to, under our self-imposed rules, link it back to name / address.

That said, those are our self-imposed rules... if one wanted to do it, and had the data, it would be very easy to do. However, those that have the linkages do a good job of ensuring that data is not available for non-approved use so as an industry, it’s pretty clean. I cannot answer what would happen if the government had legal cause to use that data though.

I’m also well aware of some technology that is used in the fraud space that would scare the living crap out of you... well... maybe not someone who lives in China... but a normal American citizen. Suffice it to say, ‘made for the movies’ kind of stuff. Imagine a searchable database of images / locations that can return results based on multiple inputs ranging from license plates to photo images of people... The technology exists and it’s in use. I won’t say who is deploying that system, but it isn’t the government... and it’s not anyone that I work with from a data perspective, it’s completely outside of my line of work.

So, am I already marked? I guess I’d say that in some ways, absolutely. Perhaps not explicitly, but implicitly. Does it bother me? Absolutely. Does it impact me? Not so long as I don’t fuck up, lol. Perhaps this is the typical stupid American in me, but if it doesn’t impact me, it isn’t real? And that kind of attitude is exactly what they are banking on. If it’s used and not too intrusive, we lazy Americans won’t bother to say a word about it.
 
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Yet the two parties wouldn't exist without substantial support. For now anyways it is within the voters power to change. Continuing to support a 2 party system though is going to keep leading to the same mediocre at best results.

Well, I can only do my part in changing the world. I didn’t vote for the guy who won, nor did I vote for the guy who took second place...

I will admit, as a voter in Illinois, my vote is wasted anyhow... regardless of which side I’d favor. There’s zero question in my mind how much my vote counts here.
 
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... I’m also well aware of some technology that is used in the fraud space that would scare the living crap out of you... well... maybe not someone who lives in China... but a normal American citizen. Suffice it to say, ‘made for the movies’ kind of stuff. Imagine a searchable database of images / locations that can return results based on multiple inputs ranging from license plates to photo images of people... The technology exists and it’s in use. I won’t say who is deploying that system, but it isn’t the government.
Facial recognition is all over the place here. I doubt the systems are developed entirely here in China. One of the amusing things that happened during the outbreak is that all the systems started to crash when everybody started wearing masks. They somehow quickly came up with a workaround, so that the system still works even when you're wearing a mask, which is also kinda freaky.

Chinese businesses are geniuses at getting people to hand over their data, or maybe it's easy to get people to hand over their data because people assume that it's already all out there anyway, so what's another thing.

Funny story... a couple years ago, vending companies started rolling out face recognition capability on their machines. People could go up to a machine and buy stuff without doing anything that resembles payment. The machine would scan their face, match the face to the ID, make a couple of blockchain hops and voila... your stuff drops down into the chute. The first time I saw one of these machines, there was a crowd of people lined up to try it. Like a group of little kids gathered around when one of their classmates brings a bunny rabbit to school. And here I am, kinda slowly backing away from it and saying "F* that... I ain't doin' that!"[/QUOTE]

So, am I already marked? I guess I’d say that in some ways, absolutely. Perhaps not explicitly, but implicitly. Does it bother me? Absolutely. Does it impact me? Not so long as I don’t fuck up, lol. Perhaps this is the typical stupid American in me, but if it doesn’t impact me, it isn’t real? And that kind of attitude is exactly what they are banking on. If it’s used and not too obtrusive, we lazy Americans won’t bother to say a word about it.
I basically have the same view, except for the fact that it doesn't *really* bother me. I don't lose sleep over it. I've lived under hostile firing-squad regimes. And maybe that's why I don't have such an issue being in China. But, it probably should bother me.

Here's why I say that "it probably should"...

Business has become as powerful, or even more powerful, than government. To the extent that businesses *primarily* (but maybe not *exclusively*) exist to make money for their shareholders, there can be cases where business leaders put that primary motive beyond anything else, for whatever reason. It's difficult (but not impossible) for society to keep oversight, either to prevent or to prosecute, those cases. It just depends what kind of tax we're willing to pay to fund that level of oversight.

For now, I guess selfishly and ignorantly, I don't feel directly and immediately "harmed" by actions of governments or businesses to a degree that I can't still keep moving along somehow living in an "invisible prison" of my own making, so to speak. So, for now, I'm not willing to check the box on my tax filing that asks if I want to donate money to the presidential election, or, presumably a box that asks if I want to donate money to strengthen the SEC or the Justice Department.

Somebody's going to say "your taxes are already supposed to be doing that", to which I'd say, "how's that workin' out for ya?"... :)
 
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Clearly there are "issues" on both sides of the political / social spectrum. Thankfully, I'm not at or near either of those edges, personally.

If I was an artist or a writer or somebody whose calling was to call attention to stuff that the powers-that-be would rather not deal with, then I wouldn't be here. There are serious issue with a guy like Ay Wei Wei not being able to express himself. Some of China's greatest creative minds have emigrated to the West, and probably for this exact reason.

To put things in perspective, though, this kind of tracking has been going on here in China since the beginning of time. It's just how stuff is done and people know it and they make decisions accordingly. I also tend to think that people in the West are naive to think that it doesn't happen there to some degree, but that's a hole other hornet's nest. I'm just saying that there isn't, conveniently, just one "bad guy" or "rogue state" in the world at any given time. And "freedoms" and "civil liberties" look different for different people.

Yes... the consequences of refusal are harsh. You get whisked away and that's it.

Having said that, are you ABSOLUTELY certain that you're not already marked?
images
 
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Facial recognition is all over the place here. I doubt the systems are developed entirely here in China. One of the amusing things that happened during the outbreak is that all the systems started to crash when everybody started wearing masks. They somehow quickly came up with a workaround, so that the system still works even when you're wearing a mask, which is also kinda freaky
...
So, for now, I'm not willing to check the box on my tax filing that asks if I want to donate money to the presidential election, or, presumably a box that asks if I want to donate money to strengthen the SEC or the Justice Department.

Somebody's going to say "your taxes are already supposed to be doing that", to which I'd say, "how's that workin' out for ya?"... :)

Something we can almost all agree on - we don't want to strengthen the SEC. Fuck that conference.
 
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