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Coronavirus (COVID-19) is too exciting for adults to discuss (CLOSED)

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Buckeyeskickbuttocks said:
A friend of mine sent me that article yesterday. You know what the author doesn't note? Sweden lags behind it's neighbors Finland and Norway by orders of magnitude when it comes to death rate. In roughly 7000 Swedish cases, about 475 have died (6.8%). In roughly 5900 Norwegian cases there have been roughly 80 deaths (1.4%). In Finland there have been 2300 cases and only 27 deaths (1.2%). I bet you can figure out how Sweden is different than it's immediate neighbors. Hint: It's the approach worth exploring.
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The rate may be higher but look at the bigger picture

If social isolation worked, wouldn’t Sweden, a Nordic country of 10.1 million people, be seeing the number of COVID-19 cases skyrocket into the tens of thousands, blowing past the numbers in Italy or New York City? As of today, there are 401 reported COVID-19 deaths in Sweden.

The really good news is that in Sweden’s ICU census, which is updated every 30 minutes nationwide, admissions to every ICU in the country are flat or declining, and they have been for a week. As of this writing (based on currently available data), most of Sweden’s ICU cases today are elderly, and 77 percent have underlying conditions such as heart disease, respiratory disease, kidney disease, and diabetes. Moreover, there hasn’t been a single pediatric ICU case or death in Sweden — so much for the benefits of shutting down schools everywhere else. There are only 25 COVID-19 ICU admissions among all Swedes under the age of 30.

Sweden is developing herd immunity by refusing to panic. By not requiring social isolation, Sweden’s young people spread the virus, mostly asymptomatically, as is supposed to happen in a normal flu season. They will generate protective antibodies that make it harder and harder for the Wuhan virus to reach and infect the frail and elderly who have serious underlying conditions. For perspective, the current COVID-19 death rate in Sweden (40 deaths per million of population) is substantially lower than the Swedish death rate in a normal flu season (in 2018, for instance, about 80 per million of population).
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400 some odd deaths but the ICU numbers are flat or declining. They haven't done irreparable financial, emotional and psychological harm to millions of their population that will be a drain on the system for generations to come.

They basically followed option #2 from the Imperial College study and it appears to have been the smart decision.
 
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Many of the hospitals in Tri-state are out of body bags...
Reason almost everyone is listing Covid as reason for death... the front line have no idea what the cause is
They're not trying to fake statistics.. there is so much they don't know about this virus...
each patient has different issues... all have breathing issues, but each has other severe pains and issues...
and they have no time to investigate the death further.. the next wave of patients is already lined up

Your medical front line is petrified... they know they are at immense risk..
They are extremely stressed they could infect their families and others at the hospital
None of them want to be there... they desperately want to be home and safe...

A next very significant issue will be the shortage of nurses and doctors... when this wave is over..
they don't want to be in this situation again... These aren't Navy Seals...
They chose the profession to help... not to die

Keep them in your prayers
 
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Jaxbuck said:
The rate may be higher but look at the bigger picture



400 some odd deaths but the ICU numbers are flat or declining. They haven't done irreparable financial, emotional and psychological harm to millions of their population that will be a drain on the system for generations to come.

They basically followed option #2 from the Imperial College study and it appears to have been the smart decision.
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How big a picture do I need? I mean, if Sweden's economy is up and running, who gives a rats ass since the rest of the world is closed?

I'm not in the 'irreparable harm' camp. I don't doubt there will be financial casualties and I don't want to minimize that. But, with that said, there isn't something inherently broken right now. There's no underlying economic unhealth. That's why there's not a lot to be learned about comparing this to other financial hard times. I mean... when this is over, I'm still gonna need someone to cut my hair. And.. you know what? There will be plenty of hair cutting pros out there wanting the gig too. I may be over simplifying, but I'm optimistic that this isn't 1929.
 
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks said:
How big a picture do I need? I mean, if Sweden's economy is up and running, who gives a rats ass since the rest of the world is closed?

I'm not in the 'irreparable harm' camp. I don't doubt there will be financial casualties and I don't want to minimize that. But, with that said, there isn't something inherently broken right now. There's no underlying economic unhealth. That's why there's not a lot to be learned about comparing this to other financial hard times. I mean... when this is over, I'm still gonna need someone to cut my hair. And.. you know what? There will be plenty of hair cutting pros out there wanting the gig too. I may be over simplifying, but I'm optimistic that this isn't 1929.
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Agreed. And if a few barbershops don't make it, the other ones will pickup that business and need to hire new barbers. The demand is inelastic for a lot of these services -- there will be a reconfiguration and it will take time and suffering for some, but it will bounce back sooner rather than later.

And this isn't the aftermath of a war where the entire infrastructure is completely demolished. Everything is still in place to get back to business.

And not to downplay what is going on right now, but I truly believe that our country as a whole has no idea what true suffering is. We haven't had a full-blown war on this continent in 150 years. Other countries have gone through so much worse over the last century. And you know what they do? They fight through it and rebuild. London survived two months of bombings from the Luftwaffe --- this ain't shit.
 
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I'm sure we can all agree getting the shit bombed out of us would be most unpleasant, but being aware of that does nothing for most people living through the present.

Shutting down the economy isn't just about the economy. Few people who become desperate and/or despondent are going to sit back and go "You know, this isn't really so bad. At least we aren't getting bombed."

If it was that easy for humans to rationalize there would be no suicides, or mental illness in general, but they exist and will get worse the longer things stay in lockdown.
 
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Jake said:
I'm sure we can all agree getting the shit bombed out of us would be most unpleasant, but being aware of that does nothing for most people living through the present.

Shutting down the economy isn't just about the economy. Few people who become desperate and/or despondent are going to sit back and go "You know, this isn't really so bad. At least we aren't getting bombed."

If it was that easy for humans to rationalize there would be no suicides, or mental illness in general, but they exist and will get worse the longer things stay in lockdown.
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You are absolutely right, of course. On an individual level, this will absolutely be a traumatic, life-altering, and possibly life-ending event for many people. And it certainly wasn't my intention to ignore or denigrate their 100% legitimate suffering.

I was simply looking at it from more of birds-eye view regarding the overall damage to the nation compared to what the US (and many other nations) have suffered through before.

EDIT - and on that note, if you (collective you, not you in particular) know someone who is suffering or struggling with mental illness or putting food on their tables, reach out to them and offer some help.
 
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Jake said:
I'm sure we can all agree getting the shit bombed out of us would be most unpleasant, but being aware of that does nothing for most people living through the present.

Shutting down the economy isn't just about the economy. Few people who become desperate and/or despondent are going to sit back and go "You know, this isn't really so bad. At least we aren't getting bombed."

If it was that easy for humans to rationalize there would be no suicides, or mental illness in general, but they exist and will get worse the longer things stay in lockdown.
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OTOH, if it was that easy to expect humans, in this country in particular, to be highly disciplined in what they do, we would have tried that too. Actually, we did in some states, and watched morons congregate for spring break, get sick, and travel back to their communities with it. A Sweden option would never work in this country. Ever.
 
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