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Cleveland Indians (2013 Season)

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NFBuck said:
Just saw the Reds are bringing back Dusty Baker next year. Jesus Christ. At least we're not in that boat. Talented roster with an absolute imbecile in the dugout. Short of dressing up like Marge Schott and goose stepping all over down town Cinci, seems like he just cannot get fired.
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I was gonna post the following here as an add on to 'Lion's post (and I think he gets it almost all exactly right). Point being that that smartest thing Shapiro, Antonetti and company did was 360 days ago getting Tito here. Without him I don't think you get Swisher, and without Swisher, I don't think you get Bourn (and critcisms of him, valid as they are, he really doesn't make all that much money, and when he's going well, he gets on base... a lot... both earlier this year, and in the past... not sure how healthy he's been but, hopefully he can be serious in the offseason with no contracts to not get signed and is ready to go, I think his approach will be addressed, if nothing else than having the you might run like Hayes... talk) But, bottom line, we have a lot of things in the air, Kazmir (I think), Ubaldo... we still have Brett Myers... (Remember that guy?). But, I think the cool thing is, that what I'd call, "Regularly priced" Free Agents who are looking for 1 or 2 year deals, will give Tito and the rest of this team a look. Who knows, you might be able to trade Cabrera for a DH/OF/1B type to replace Reynolds... the other option is, maybe, tell him, look, you're a shitty SS... you're not a SS anymore, go drink all the beer you want in the offseason but make sure you hit the weight room 4 times a week... and see if he can play 3rd... to me, it seems like he's struggling with his weight most of the time, and he's over matched at the plate at times... so... fuck it... embrace the madness, feed him a pile of HGH and tell him to go up there hacking. if it doesn't work out, hey, we still got Chis. :)
 
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AKAK said:
I was gonna post the following here as an add on to 'Lion's post (and I think he gets it almost all exactly right). Point being that that smartest thing Shapiro, Antonetti and company did was 360 days ago getting Tito here. Without him I don't think you get Swisher, and without Swisher, I don't think you get Bourn (and critcisms of him, valid as they are, he really doesn't make all that much money, and when he's going well, he gets on base... a lot... both earlier this year, and in the past... not sure how healthy he's been but, hopefully he can be serious in the offseason with no contracts to not get signed and is ready to go, I think his approach will be addressed, if nothing else than having the you might run like Hayes... talk) But, bottom line, we have a lot of things in the air, Kazmir (I think), Ubaldo... we still have Brett Myers... (Remember that guy?). But, I think the cool thing is, that what I'd call, "Regularly priced" Free Agents who are looking for 1 or 2 year deals, will give Tito and the rest of this team a look. Who knows, you might be able to trade Cabrera for a DH/OF/1B type to replace Reynolds... the other option is, maybe, tell him, look, you're a [Mark May]ty SS... you're not a SS anymore, go drink all the beer you want in the offseason but make sure you hit the weight room 4 times a week... and see if he can play 3rd... to me, it seems like he's struggling with his weight most of the time, and he's over matched at the plate at times... so... fuck it... embrace the madness, feed him a pile of HGH and tell him to go up there hacking. if it doesn't work out, hey, we still got Chis. :)
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They released Myers back in August, so no more of that fiasco.

As for the rest, pretty much agree with everything you wrote. Tito finally gives this organization some credibility. I agree FAs will be more apt to give the Tribe a serious look with him in the dugout. Here's what I see as needing to be done this winter:

- Let Ubald-O walk. Yes, he was phenomenal the last six weeks. But, he knew it was an opportunity for him to punch his ticket to a large contract. He was dreadful for 2 seasons, and I think once he gets his fat contract, he'll regress back that way. Maybe not as bad, but I don't think he'll pitch well enough to justify a $15M/per contract he'll probably get.
- Please get rid of Perez. Or, at least, end him as a closer. If they want to bring him back to work middle-relief to try to redeem himself, fine. I get that he was probably pitching hurt, but he's been that way for two seasons now...injured that is. If they don't go the FA route, I think they should look at Carrasco in that role. Could be a disaster, but he could have just the right mentality to excel there.
- Need more power. Brantley and Bourne are gonna probably give you 20 HR combined out there. If that's the case, they need to get 30+ HR from the other spot.
- AsCab needs to go away. He's been terrible since the 2012 All Star break. Maybe moving him to 3B helps, but his offensive production was barely average for a SS, it's bad for a 3B. Of course, the alternative is Chis and his .230 BA / .300 OBP

If Ubald-O walks as expected, they still potentially have a decent rotation. I think they bring Kaz back. That leaves you with:
  1. Masty
  2. Salazar
  3. McAllister
  4. Kluber
  5. Kaz
McAllister and Kluber worry me because they were both spotty down the stretch. I think the bullpen can be decent if they figure out the closer situation somehow, but you never know. Bullpens are always a crapshoot.

The overall success of this season is nothing but positive. They're clearly not too far off. Need to bring in a couple of bats, and maybe a closer. They do that, maybe they fix the horrifying record against >.500 teams. If they do next to nothing, I think next year could be very frustrating.
 
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NFBuck said:
They released Myers back in August, so no more of that fiasco.

As for the rest, pretty much agree with everything you wrote. Tito finally gives this organization some credibility. I agree FAs will be more apt to give the Tribe a serious look with him in the dugout. Here's what I see as needing to be done this winter:

- Let Ubald-O walk. Yes, he was phenomenal the last six weeks. But, he knew it was an opportunity for him to punch his ticket to a large contract. He was dreadful for 2 seasons, and I think once he gets his fat contract, he'll regress back that way. Maybe not as bad, but I don't think he'll pitch well enough to justify a $15M/per contract he'll probably get.
- Please get rid of Perez. Or, at least, end him as a closer. If they want to bring him back to work middle-relief to try to redeem himself, fine. I get that he was probably pitching hurt, but he's been that way for two seasons now...injured that is. If they don't go the FA route, I think they should look at Carrasco in that role. Could be a disaster, but he could have just the right mentality to excel there.
- Need more power. Brantley and Bourne are gonna probably give you 20 HR combined out there. If that's the case, they need to get 30+ HR from the other spot.
- AsCab needs to go away. He's been terrible since the 2012 All Star break. Maybe moving him to 3B helps, but his offensive production was barely average for a SS, it's bad for a 3B. Of course, the alternative is Chis and his .230 BA / .300 OBP

If Ubald-O walks as expected, they still potentially have a decent rotation. I think they bring Kaz back. That leaves you with:
  1. Masty
  2. Salazar
  3. McAllister
  4. Kluber
  5. Kaz
McAllister and Kluber worry me because they were both spotty down the stretch. I think the bullpen can be decent if they figure out the closer situation somehow, but you never know. Bullpens are always a crapshoot.

The overall success of this season is nothing but positive. They're clearly not too far off. Need to bring in a couple of bats, and maybe a closer. They do that, maybe they fix the horrifying record against >.500 teams. If they do next to nothing, I think next year could be very frustrating.
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In no particular order...

I didn't realize they had released Myers... good news, thanks.

I agree on Ubaldo, mostly, and as much as it seemed like he was pitching for his contract.. I honestly just think the guy is a head case, so, more or less, the calculus remains the same. And... I'm gonna go ahead and predict, though, that this is kind of "known" so, I'm not sure you're looking at that kind of $. But, whatever the tag is, they don't want to probably have to pay it.

As to Kluber and McAllister, yeah, I'm a little more convinced that McAllister is what he appears to be, which is spotty, but, if he's the 4 or 5, or whatever, it is what it is. I'm NOT a Kluber fan, but, he's gonna get his chance... but having said all that... there needs to be a contingency plan. I don't see Trevor Bauer or Carrasco as that at this point. Kazmir, I think wants to resign, so, we'll see. They have arms in the Pen, crap shoot for sure, but, I think its more of a use/shelf life thing. But, yeah, its gonna be what its gonna be.

I suppose my thought on Cabrera, was more to the effect that I never felt like he had the body type to really be a SS... and obviously his defensive skills have diminished before our eyes... and thats AFTER the reports were that he came into spring training in good shape... more of a throw away, but, I think (and I could be wrong) its gonna be easier to find a RF/1B/DH than it is a 3B. I'm also, as always, of the assumption that they won't spend more $ than they are, so, they've only got X bucks to throw at it, and probably not for a long term deal, so, if they give Kazmir Myers $ and they give the RF/1B/DH some combination of Reynolds/Ubaldo's money... that's not gonna leave "competent" 3B money. Unless the trade AsCab for one of those... I'm not sure how realistic that is. Someone will probably take him and make him a 2B anyway... so, we'll see. (But, yeah, he's a better hitter than Chis, and I wonder if he wasn't fighting his body if that would help.... think Jhonny Peralta who just said, screw it, I'm gonna suck at SS but rake)

And, as to the Santana issue... there really isn't one in my view until other things are sorted out. I'd personally be fine if he were the DH/Part Time catcher and Swisher is the RF/1B depending on who they can bring in.
 
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Bucklion said:
Well at this point after 6, it appears the season is drawing to an end. A couple of things are obvious tonight:

1- The first thing they need to do after getting rid of Perez is get rid of Fat Asd. Not only does he hit into double plays, he does it at the worst possible times, and he does little else. Trade him, cut him, send him to A ball, I don't care...Aviles can keep the 6 warm until Lindor gets here.

2- Michael Bourn is not a leadoff hitter. I don't know where you put him in the order except down in like the 7 or 8 hole. He could hit the 1 when he was stealing a million bases, but his pop-up on the first pitch of the game set a negative tone, didn't work the count, didn't give anyone a look at Cobb, nothing. He does that a lot. He doesn't think, act, or do anything like a leadoff hitter. Move him down.

3- Love Salazar, kid will be great in a year or two.

4- Bullpen could be deep, Shaw, Scrabble, Smith, they have some good pieces for innings 5-8.

5-Big needs: Closer and a big bat that can ideally play the corner outfield spots, primarily RF. Carlos can play some first, backup catcher, and DH. I still see some promise in Chis at 3rd. Swisher can play 1st and RF at times. Gomes is the catcher. Brantley, Bourn, Kipnis, Santana will be in the lineup a lot. Stubbs can play some outfield in a platoon and as a defensive replacement. He is a good 4th OF.

This team will have a lot of promise next season, and we haven't said that for a while. Hate to see it end, but damned if it wasn't a great ride.
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Isn't Joe Smith also a free agent this year? Kasmir and Giambi are free agents too; got believe that somebody offers Kaz a 3 year deal that will be too rich for the Tribe. Giambi? Can't see anyone else offering him a roster spot. Should Cleveland? Stubbs is eligible for arbitration. Can't see the Indians going to a hearing with him....maybe he can be packaged with Perez?

Chis had a good September and played about as well as anyone on the team in last night's playoff game.
 
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Here's a curious move: The Tribe claimed:

The Indians claimed pitcher Tyler Cloyd off waivers from the Phillies Wednesday. He went 2-7 with a 6.56 ERA, 1.79 WHIP and 41:25 K:BB ratio in 60 1/3 innings over 13 appearances (11 starts) with the Phillies.


Ok, looks like another Indians dumpster dive move for a so so pitcher, right? This is the time of year when clubs "clean up" their 40 man rosters in anticipation of the Rule 5 draft and possible free agent signings. The Phillies waived 3 other players at the same time they waived Cloyd.

Except, before this year Cloyd was looking pretty promising:

http://philliesnation.com/archives/2013/01/prospect-nation-2013-22-rhp-tyler-cloyd/

In fact, Cloyd was the 2012 AAA International League Player of the Year while playing for the Lehigh Valley Iron Pigs (Phillies's AAA team)! I couldn't find anything that suggested he was injured (which, after the Cliff Lee trade for injuried Phillies's pitchers always has to be considered, eh?), except that this shows his speed differential is a great deal reduced this year: http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=8536&position=P&pitch=FC

Wonder if the Indians's scouts have an idea or two about what caused this guy to "go bad" this year? If so, would not be the first time they've turned around a project like this. Remember relief pitcher Esmil Rogers? Indians claimed him in May, 2012 from the Rockies when he had an 8.06 ERA in 23 games. The Indians tinkered with his delivery and he had an ERA of 3.06 in 44 games during the rest of 2012. Then, the Indians traded him to Toronto for Gomes AND Avilas.
 
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I saw an interview with Jensen Lewis (former Tribe reliever) and he said that he would keep Kazmir over Jimenez simply because he is a left-handed starter and without him our starters would really be top-heavy from the right side. He also said that the worst thing that the Indians did to Pestano was to send him down to Columbus because he believes it is more psychological than physical with Vinnie and sending him to Columbus was the worst thing they could do to him and do not shoot the messenger.
 
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LitlBuck said:
I saw an interview with Jensen Lewis (former Tribe reliever) and he said that he would keep Kazmir over Jimenez simply because he is a left-handed starter and without him our starters would really be top-heavy from the right side. He also said that the worst thing that the Indians did to Pestano was to send him down to Columbus because he believes it is more psychological than physical with Vinnie and sending him to Columbus was the worst thing they could do to him and do not shoot the messenger.
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as a practical matter, signing kazmir simply makes more sense. he'll be much cheaper, and you can likely get him on a shorter contract. jiminez is going to get a 5 year deal somewhere, and it will be for an assload of money. and, unless he's taking mickey callaway with him, i'd be quite worried about a total regression from him.

as for pestano, i don't know what else cleveland was going to do with him. he was a dumpster fire whenever they sent him out there. he was only really useful in mop up duty, or when you had more than a 4 run lead. and, unlike perez, they had options on pestano that allowed them to send him down to columbus to try and sort things out. if it's really a mental issue, only getting to pitch in blowouts once a week or so in the bigs isn't going to help either.
 
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