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Cleveland Indians (2013 Season)

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NFBuck;2363582; said:
Well, see, this is the issue with this franchise....and a major reason they will continue to have trouble putting butts in the seats and getting fans to buy in. This is the third consecutive season they've teased us with illusions (delusions?) of contention well into the season, only to flop in spectacular fashion as the season hit its dog days. Start fast next year, guess what? Everybody's going to expect yet another August death spiral. I sure will.

I blame myself for getting sucked in this time. In 2011-12, I was waiting for the inevitable crash. This season, for some ungodly reason, I thought they might be for real. I fought it and and fought it, but they kept winning. Then Perez tossed a meatball to Avila and I was snapped back to reality...this franchise just isn't going to get there. They cannot legitimately compete in today's MLB. Best we can hope for is to slither into some wildcard spot to get trounced by one of baseball's "haves". And that ain't happening this year. Not with the holes in this lineup, the state of the bullpen, or with the starting pitching slowly beaking down.

There are some pieces here to be positive about. We have a proven winner in the dugout. A couple of good young players to build around. Now we have to hope some of the young guys live up to their advanced billing. Lately, that's been an issue. Kipnis is probably the only guy to meet his hype. Maybe Brantley, though he's not exactly a "star". Santana, while a solid player, is not the masher he was expected to be. LaPorta was [censored]ing awful. I'm pretty much writing off Chisenhall at this point as he's shown zero improvement in any facet. Carrasco is a disaster. Big pieces of the Lee trade like Knapp and Hagadone haven't panned out. Alex White and Pomeranz were traded for a mediocre starter who may not be here past this summer, and neither of them have done anything of note anyway. These are the guys that 3-4 years ago were supposed to lead a resurgence. They aren't. We're still a middle-of-the-road MLB franchise at best. Need this next wave of prospects to fulfill all of that promise.

The way I see it, these are the positions that still need to be filled/upgraded:

Rotation: At this point, I'm assuming Ubald-O is gone after this season. That leaves you with Masty, McAllister, Kluber, and Salazar. Maybe they bring back Kazmir. I think Salazar has the makings of a future #1 or 2. Now you just have to hope that the good things McAllister/Kluber showed this season are legit and they can stay healthy. If not, the rotation goes from being pretty solid to a disaster pretty quickly.

Bullpen: All kids of issues here. Not sure how much longer they go with Perez. I hate the [censored]er, but he's actually (statistically) an above average closer. That role is just such a crapshoot. I read an interesting article on Wahoosonfirst mentioning giving Carrasco a look in that role. Kid has an electric arm, and might just be bat[Mark May] crazy enough to thrive in that role. They need Pestano to bounce back. Cody Allen has been solid this year. Joe Smith is frustratingly streaky. Same with Bryan Shaw. Please, no more Rich Hill. Bullpens are always a crapshoot. It's a year-to-year thing.

3B: Chisenhall simply isn't the answer. Can't field. Can't hit. Can't get on base. That's three strikes. I know he's not even 25 yet, but the kid has been up for parts of three seasons and has shown little-to-no improvement in any area. Hell, he's regressed this year. It's not like he even gets hot at points to show flashes of potential. He's just been pretty steadily mediocre-to-bad.

SS: AsCab has been awful for over a year. He's never going to be the player he was for the first half on 2011. He's barely even an average offensive SS anymore. Unfortunately, I think his awful play has pretty much tanked his trade value as well.

OF: We still need a power hitting corner OF. That's not Stubbs. Brantley contributes enough to warrant a starting job. But, if you're going to start him and Bourn out there, you need somebody to hit 25-30 HR from the other spot. Hopefully Swish heals up this offseason and takes that role. I worry that this is the start of a decline for him, though.
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I have to give you kudos NFBUCK that was one of your more excellent posts regarding the Indians and I tend to agree with much of what you said. I will add just a few thoughts of my own.

Rotation: I will be shocked if Ubaldo is back next year. I would think for the money that they would have to pay him they could go out and get another long reliever who might even be better then him or upgrade another position with the money. The only guy that I am not worried about is Masterson. McAllister and Kluber still concern me. It is not about their pitching style but about their fingers. I think that they can both be quality starters if they can stay healthy. I am unsure about Salazar. I know that he has looked awfully good in his starts while with the big club but was he this dominant when he was with the Clippers. I do not know so I guess I will have to see him a few more times before passing judgment on him. I guess depending upon the price I would re-sign Kazimir and just hope that his sore arm holds up for another year but that might be just too much to hope for.

Bullpen: Agree with everything you stated. Getting Vinnie back healthy certainly would help. I have also seen it mentioned about giving Carrasco a shot at the bullpen but the Indians staff seem to want to keep him as a starter.

3B: Agree but I do not know what you do here. I would love for them to give Gomes a shot here to see if he can field adequately enough and still maintain what he is currently showing at the plate.

SS: I would get rid of Cabrera in a heartbeat. The only reason he is hitting third for the Indians is because they have no one else to hit that spot. Loves to swing at the first pitch hard and usually ends up popping up.

0F: I just hope Brantley is not a flash in the pan this year. Bourn is the only guy that I can really count on for next year. I do not know if Swisher is great to have surgery at the end of the year to fix his shoulder or what but he has been a major disappointment this year for the dollars that he is making. I thought when they signed him they were going to get a much better return on their investment.

C: As you mentioned Santana certainly is not the player that we thought we were getting when he came to Cleveland. Defensively he is almost a liability so maybe you play Gomes here and move Santana to first base or DH him quite a bit more. I do not care if he wants to catch he must do what is good for the benefit of the team.

They need to find some power in the off-season and I am not sure that the FO wants to spend anymore money since they got burned so badly this past off-season. Starting pitching is always a crapshoot with free agents and I am somewhat surprised when other teams can do in the off-season and the Indians continue to flounder in this area.

Oh well, at least my Browns have won their first 2 exhibition games and have given me some false hope similar to the Tribe.
 
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LitlBuck;2363980; said:
Rotation: I will be shocked if Ubaldo is back next year. I would think for the money that they would have to pay him they could go out and get another long reliever who might even be better then him or upgrade another position with the money. The only guy that I am not worried about is Masterson. McAllister and Kluber still concern me. It is not about their pitching style but about their fingers. I think that they can both be quality starters if they can stay healthy. I am unsure about Salazar. I know that he has looked awfully good in his starts while with the big club but was he this dominant when he was with the Clippers. I do not know so I guess I will have to see him a few more times before passing judgment on him. I guess depending upon the price I would re-sign Kazimir and just hope that his sore arm holds up for another year but that might be just too much to hope for.
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Ubald-O has had his moments this year. Certainly more than the previous two. But, he barely gives you five innings on average. That does not warrant much salary, and somebody will pay him, because baseball people are like rich kids with too much money on their hands. Hopefully, Shapironetti are smart enough not to bite. I'd argue that Salazar has the best pure stuff in this organization. It's gonna be a question if he has the mental makeup to harness that stuff. I share the McAllister/Kluber concerns. As for Kazmir, well, if the price is right, he could continue to be a serviceable 4 or 5 starter. He's breaking down already, though. So you have to question if he has a full season in him. I know Bauer is a big prospect, but I'm not sold on him. I just get the feeling he'll be the latest in a line of failed Tribe prospects.

Bullpen: Agree with everything you stated. Getting Vinnie back healthy certainly would help. I have also seen it mentioned about giving Carrasco a shot at the bullpen but the Indians staff seem to want to keep him as a starter.
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Yeah, bullpens are just so hard top project year-to-year. Remember the dumpster fire the Tribe bullpen was in 2006? Virtually the same guys were dominant in 2007, then fell back to earth in 2008. Consistent relief pitchers are just very hard to find.

3B: Agree but I do not know what you do here. I would love for them to give Gomes a shot here to see if he can field adequately enough and still maintain what he is currently showing at the plate.
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As far as I know, Gomes doesn't have any 3B experience. That's a tall order asking a catcher to plug and play at the hot corner. I'm sure they're still intent on giving Chisenhall another chance, because, really, what other option is there? I don't know who the 3B FAs are this winter, but I doubt they make a move here even if some good guys are available.

SS: I would get rid of Cabrera in a heartbeat. The only reason he is hitting third for the Indians is because they have no one else to hit that spot. Loves to swing at the first pitch hard and usually ends up popping up.
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Cabrera is dog meat. Like I said, he's not even really an average offensive SS anymore. They have to hope Lindor is ready in the near future, and that he actually lives up to his advanced billing.

0F: I just hope Brantley is not a flash in the pan this year. Bourn is the only guy that I can really count on for next year. I do not know if Swisher is great to have surgery at the end of the year to fix his shoulder or what but he has been a major disappointment this year for the dollars that he is making. I thought when they signed him they were going to get a much better return on their investment.
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Brantley has been decent for a couple of years now, but he is what he is. An average offensive corner outfielder. He's a .280-12-70 guy. That's fine when you can get power from the other spots, but they aren't right now. Swisher needs to un[censored] himself or they're in trouble. Even so, he may still juggle OF/1B, so I hesitate calling him a fulltime corner OF, anyway. Hopefully some combination of a healthy Swish and Raburn can give them solid production.

C: As you mentioned Santana certainly is not the player that we thought we were getting when he came to Cleveland. Defensively he is almost a liability so maybe you play Gomes here and move Santana to first base or DH him quite a bit more. I do not care if he wants to catch he must do what is good for the benefit of the team.
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Santana's value lays as a C. There, his decent numbers become very good. Santana as a 1B/DH isn't as valuable. But, with Gomes emerging, I think the juggling act continues. I don't see them moving Gomes. Time is running short on Santana becoming the big offensive bat he was billed as.

They need to find some power in the off-season and I am not sure that the FO wants to spend anymore money since they got burned so badly this past off-season. Starting pitching is always a crapshoot with free agents and I am somewhat surprised when other teams can do in the off-season and the Indians continue to flounder in this area.
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I don't expect much change in philosophy. I'd expect them to seek power in more Reynolds-type signings. But, they did surprise me in opening the checkbook for Swish and Bourn, so who the hell knows. I do know, if they want to compete they're gonna have to be aggressive. While we have some nice MIF prospects, we don't have any real power hitter prospects on the farm, and this team is desperate for some power.
 
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JCOSU86;2364089; said:
Swisher, jfc.
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I mean I know he's supposed to be the quirky guy who is popular with the fans and keeps things loose, but it's obvious he just doesn't give a fuck anymore. I mean that was the easiest throw I've seen a first basemen botch yesterday, and it came at a time when a rally was unlikely, but not impossible.

Oh, and they're still shitty.
 
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LitlBuck;2365008; said:
I guess all the Indian fans went home:) Very nice performance by the bullpen last night in a 4-1 victory in 14 innings over the Angels. Salazar with another nice performance but only for 5 innings.
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All the Indians fans fell asleep.

I made it to the 6th... (I think) I was groggy at any rate... maybe start of the 7th, that's it.

Anyway if they're keeping Salazar on 75 pitches... he's not going much deeper than that.
 
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LitlBuck;2365008; said:
I guess all the Indian fans went home:) Very nice performance by the bullpen last night in a 4-1 victory in 14 innings over the Angels. Salazar with another nice performance but only for 5 innings.
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I largely lost interest after the detroit debacle. I'm not getting sucked back in by them winning against [Mark May]ty teams again...[censored]ing losers.
 
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At this point I think they're too far out of the wild card to pass either Boston/TB or Oakland. It's possible that Oakland will go cold, but they missed a golden opportunity to pick up games out there. They will go on a run in September but they will be far enough back by then after going 1-5 or 0-6 in ATL/DET that it won't matter.
 
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Bucklion;2365041; said:
At this point I think they're too far out of the wild card to pass either Boston/TB or Oakland. It's possible that Oakland will go cold, but they missed a golden opportunity to pick up games out there. They will go on a run in September but they will be far enough back by then after going 1-5 or 0-6 in ATL/DET that it won't matter.
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We're only 3.5 games back....

14 of the final 17 games are against the White Sox, Twins, and Astros. I have a hard time thinking we're too far back with that in mind.
 
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bigdog3300;2365062; said:
We're only 3.5 games back....

14 of the final 17 games are against the White Sox, Twins, and Astros. I have a hard time thinking we're too far back with that in mind.
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Yes I know, I've been touting the September schedule since May. But before that we have 3 at Atlanta, 3 at Detroit, and 3 with Baltimore at home, all in a row. That will determine the season, and whether the last 7 series even matter.
 
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