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Cleveland Browns (Finally drafting Buckeyes)

Lol trust me I get it. I'm a Lions fan. From the Barry Sanders days their high point has been mediocre and their low points are more often and well yeah... But as for a benefit for him as a team in the next 3 years the Browns are the safest choice of any of those teams. Beyond that who knows but isn't his contract like 4 years so why should he care if NO or ATL will be better teams in 5-10 years
Are they, though? "Safe" and the Clowns are two words I'd never place together. :lol:

The Saints have been an excellent franchise for 15 years. Yeah, Payton is gone, but they've put solid teams together for years and with another elite QB, they're probably right back in the hunt.

Carolina has risen from the rubble a few times over the past 20 years to be competitive out of nowhere. They have a good HC, some solid skill position players and some decent pieces on defense.

Atlanta is a bit of a mess at the moment, but they have an owner that's willing to spend to fix things and isn't nearly as big a clown as Jimmuh Haslam.

The Clowns might have the best looking roster on first blush, but they have 23 years of fucking up. They've had 3 blips of reasonable success in that time (2002, 2007 & 2020) then fell flat on their faces after each season. They have not strung together consecutive winning seasons in 33 years (1988/89). They have a meddling owner who can't get out of his own way.

I don't know. If it's me, I'm definitely taking NO over CLE. Probably Carolina, too. Atlanta is probably in the worst shape roster-wise and has a lot of other questions with Ridley now done for 2022. That's probably a toss-up, but at least Atlanta has shown the ability to string together some sustained success over the last 30+ years.
 
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Isn't Matt Ryan's contract absurd? And isn't he essentially a less fat Ben Roethlisberger at this point? I don't know that bringing him on would be a very good move.

So, where do they go from here? You essentially lit your relationship with Mayfield on fire to go all-in on a guy with legal woes and who has apparently told you "no thanks." I don't see how you can move forward with Baker as your QB at this point.

Baker thrives on disrespect so he might actually play better knowing they tried to replace him. He knows he has to play well next year to get any type of contract and his mentality is to play well enough to become a FA and stick it to the Browns for not having faith in him. That being said if they can't find an upgrade I would bring in a backup that fits the offense, maybe someone more mobile like Mariota that can stress a defense in more ways than Baker. I wanted Trubisky, but the Steelers paid him more than I thought he would get. All things being even I would take Ryan or Garoppolo over Baker, but not if I have to give up anything of value to get them or pay 40M for a minor upgrade.
 
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Baker thrives on disrespect so he might actually play better knowing they tried to replace him. He knows he has to play well next year to get any type of contract and his mentality is to play well enough to become a FA and stick it to the Browns for not having faith in him. That being said if they can't find an upgrade I would bring in a backup that fits the offense, maybe someone more mobile like Mariota that can stress a defense in more ways than Baker. I wanted Trubisky, but the Steelers paid him more than I thought he would get. All things being even I would take Ryan or Garoppolo over Baker, but not if I have to give up anything of value to get them or pay 40M for a minor upgrade.
Well, now he's officially requested a trade with the Clowns saying they will NOT accommodate him. 2022 is off to a swingin' start! :lol:

baker.JPG
 
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My early thoughts on the Browns' 2018 draft:

Baker Mayfield (QB, Oklahoma, #1 overall)

After passing on franchise quarterbacks in the past two drafts, and generally ignoring the most important position in sports for nearly two decades, the Browns were pretty much forced to use their first overall pick on a signal caller. The question is this: Was Baker Mayfield the best choice when three highly-rated traditional quarterbacks were also available? It's my strong suspicion that Mayfield's weaknesses (lack of size, small hands, lack of athleticism, inability to throw into tight windows) will be magnified in the NFL, while his strengths (football IQ, processing speed, work ethic, leadership) are merely to be expected from a starting NFL quarterback. And I'm not sure that a quarterback with "swagger" goes over well in the NFL ... in either locker room.

But let's make no mistake - Baker Mayfield isn't Johnny Football, The Sequel. Yes, there are some disturbing similarities between the two (diminutive size, punk attitude, Heisman jinx), but Mayfield is a football player through-and-through, while Manziel was always going to be a circus sideshow first and foremost. If Mayfield fails to become a franchise quarterback - and the odds are distinctly in favor of failure - then it will be primarily because he does not (and never will) possess the size and athleticism to excel at the position at the NFL level. There are legitimate reasons why the average starting NFL quarterback is 6-foot-4 ... and why two of the biggest quarterbacks in the NFL - Ben Roethlisberger (6' 5" and 240 pounds) and Joe Flacco (6' 6" and 245 pounds) - have won a combined three Super Bowls coming out of the AFC North ... and why most successful short quarterbacks (Russell Wilson, Tyrod Taylor) have "plus" athleticism and running ability. These are analytics that GMs ignore at their own risk.

Here's the biggest problem with this selection: Mayfield will have to outperform all of the other top quarterback prospects that the Browns passed on over the past three drafts (Carson Wentz, Deshaun Watson, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, and Josh Rosen) in order to justify this pick ... both to the fans and to ownership. And needless to say, that won't be an easy task. This was clearly John Dorsey's big swinging dick power play, and a strong signal to the coaching staff which he inherited that he is the man running the show, and that they had better find a way to make his players fit. But with this bold move, Dorsey has effectively given himself a three-year window in Cleveland. If Baker Mayfield isn't a definite franchise quarterback (let's say, at a minimum, Jameis Winston or Marcus Mariota) by the end of the 2020 season, then Dorsey and his crew will be the next to join the Browns' graveyard of front office personnel.

Grade: C

Denzel Ward (CB, Ohio State, #4 overall)

Ward was the best player on the board at the position of the Browns' greatest need. With that being said, the Browns overdrafted Ward by a few spots and left a better overall player on the board (Bradley Chubb). If Ward becomes Marshon Lattimore 2.0, then this will be a great pick, but Joe Haden 2.0 is more likely.

Grade: B

Austin Corbett (OL, Nevada, #33 overall)

Corbett played left tackle for four years at Nevada, but at 6-foot-4 with shortish arms (33-1/8") he is destined to move inside at the NFL level. The problem is, the Browns appear to be set inside with Joel Bitonio, J.C. Tretter, and Kevin Zeitler all signed for at least the next two seasons. Another problem: Corbett currently lacks the mass (306 pounds) and strength (19 bench reps) to be effective inside. A confusing pick.

Grade: C

Nick Chubb (RB, Georgia, #35 overall)

The Browns passed on top-5 prospect Bradley Chubb, but selected his cousin Nick early in the second round. Nick Chubb has the size (227 pounds) and speed (4.52) to be a featured back in the NFL, but a serious knee injury during the 2015 season has to be at least a slight concern. Chubb does not possess third down skills, but the Browns have Duke Johnson to cover that aspect of the game. I would rather have Chubb's college teammate Sony Michel, who went to the Patriots four picks earlier, but this is a solid selection at a position of need.

Grade: B

Chad Thomas (DE, Miami, #67 overall)

Thomas is a football player slash rap producer, which is about the most 'Cane thing imaginable. He's supposedly a very good rap producer (he worked with Rick Ross), but it remains to be seen how good of a football player he is, or if he even wants to be on the gridiron instead of in the recording studio. One of those classic smartest-guy-in-the-room picks that the Browns are so famous for.

Grade: D

Antonio Callaway (WR, Florida, #105 overall)

Selecting Chad Thomas in the third round was silly, but drafting Antonio Callaway at all was downright stupid. His résumé includes allegations of credit card fraud, sexual assault, marijuana use, and a diluted sample at the combine. And to top it off, Callaway apparently doesn't like to put in the work in the film room and the weight room. The Browns have had more than their fair share of cancerous characters in the locker room in recent years, and the product on the field has suffered because of it. Did it really make sense to add another jackass to the mix? A complete waste of a fourth round pick.

Grade: F

Genard Avery (LB, Memphis, #150 overall)

Despite having a squatty build (6-foot-1, 250 pounds), Avery has superior strength (state power lifting champ) and athleticism (4.59 forty, 36" vertical). He also had a productive career, with 230 tackles, 44.5 TFLs, 21.5 sacks, and a pair of interceptions (both pick sixes) while playing both inside and outside linebacker. And unlike some of the other Browns draftees, Avery has no known character issues. So what's not to like? Avery lacks ideal length and instincts to be an every down player, but he is expected to be an immediate star on special teams. This is just the kind of prospect that you want to get in the fifth round - a guy who can contribute right away and maybe develop into something more down the road.

Grade: A-

Damion Ratley (WR, Texas A+M, #175 overall)
Simeon Thomas (CB, Louisiana-Lafayette, #188 overall)

Round six is where teams can legitimately afford to blow picks on players with immense talent but with significant risks and/or question marks (as the Browns did with Caleb Brantley in last year's draft). Alternatively, it's the round where teams can feel comfortable taking flyers on relative unknowns with XFL floors and huge upsides. Damion Ratley has great size (6-foot-3, 190 pounds) and athleticism (4.45 forty, 38" vertical), but he caught only 47 passes in 21 games over three seasons. Ratley appears to be a late bloomer (30 receptions, 694 yards, 23.1 average, 6 touchdowns as a senior), so he might be able to develop into a functional NFL receiver given time. Thomas is another physical specimen (6-foot-2, 197 pounds), but he was dogged by academic and character issues in college that limited him to 31 games over five years. When he did play, Thomas managed to record 90 tackles, 21 passes defensed, and a pair of interceptions. Not great stats, but tall corners are hard to find.

Grade: INC

Overall Draft Thoughts

Like it or not, for better or worse, the Browns got their quarterback of the future (Baker Mayfield). They also got a bell cow running back (Nick Chubb) and a lock down corner (Denzel Ward), so they filled their three biggest positions of need with high draft choices. Later in the draft, they also got a couple of intriguing prospects (LB Genard Avery, WR Damion Ratley) who have a good chance to make the team as special teamers and role players. However, the Browns virtually wasted their third and fourth round selections on a guy who has numerous character issues (WR Antonio Callaway) and a guy who might prefer to be somewhere else (DE Chad Thomas). The Browns did not get Joe Thomas's replacement at left tackle (Austin Corbett isn't that guy), but they generally did a good job in picking up talent and filling holes. Bottom line: This will forever be known as the Baker Mayfield draft, and new GM John Dorsey's legacy in Cleveland will be based largely on Mayfield's success or failure. I personally would not have taken that risk, but what do I know?

Grade: C+ (but could've been a solid "B" with better picks in the middle rounds)


Baker Mayfield (QB, Oklahoma, #1 overall)

After passing on franchise quarterbacks in the past two drafts, and generally ignoring the most important position in sports for nearly two decades, the Browns were pretty much forced to use their first overall pick on a signal caller. The question is this: Was Baker Mayfield the best choice when three highly-rated traditional quarterbacks were also available? It's my strong suspicion that Mayfield's weaknesses (lack of size, small hands, lack of athleticism, inability to throw into tight windows) will be magnified in the NFL, while his strengths (football IQ, processing speed, work ethic, leadership) are merely to be expected from a starting NFL quarterback. And I'm not sure that a quarterback with "swagger" goes over well in the NFL ... in either locker room.

But let's make no mistake - Baker Mayfield isn't Johnny Football, The Sequel. Yes, there are some disturbing similarities between the two (diminutive size, punk attitude, Heisman jinx), but Mayfield is a football player through-and-through, while Manziel was always going to be a circus sideshow first and foremost. If Mayfield fails to become a franchise quarterback - and the odds are distinctly in favor of failure - then it will be primarily because he does not (and never will) possess the size and athleticism to excel at the position at the NFL level. There are legitimate reasons why the average starting NFL quarterback is 6-foot-4 ... and why two of the biggest quarterbacks in the NFL - Ben Roethlisberger (6' 5" and 240 pounds) and Joe Flacco (6' 6" and 245 pounds) - have won a combined three Super Bowls coming out of the AFC North ... and why most successful short quarterbacks (Russell Wilson, Tyrod Taylor) have "plus" athleticism and running ability. These are analytics that GMs ignore at their own risk.

Here's the biggest problem with this selection: Mayfield will have to outperform all of the other top quarterback prospects that the Browns passed on over the past three drafts (Carson Wentz, Deshaun Watson, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, and Josh Rosen) in order to justify this pick ... both to the fans and to ownership. And needless to say, that won't be an easy task. This was clearly John Dorsey's big swinging dick power play, and a strong signal to the coaching staff which he inherited that he is the man running the show, and that they had better find a way to make his players fit. But with this bold move, Dorsey has effectively given himself a three-year window in Cleveland. If Baker Mayfield isn't a definite franchise quarterback (let's say, at a minimum, Jameis Winston or Marcus Mariota) by the end of the 2020 season, then Dorsey and his crew will be the next to join the Browns' graveyard of front office personnel.

Grade: C
 
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Dude has to understand it's a business. But he's not the first player to react this way and won't be the last.

Yeah, the NFL is a business and I'm sure Mayfield understands that. However, outright lying to a player is not a sound business practice. No player in the NFL would be happy with that. I can see why he's upset with the Browns and wants out of Cleveland.

Browns and Baker Mayfield’s reps met at combine; reinforced plans to start him in ‘22 and not replace him with a veteran
Mar. 03, 2022

The Browns and Baker Mayfield’s reps met at the NFL combine on Thursday as scheduled, and the team reinforced its plans to start him in 2022 and not replace him with a veteran QB.

Browns GM Andrew Berry and coach Kevin Stefanski both stated during their combine press conferences that Mayfield will start in 2022, and Berry went so far as to say he believes Mayfield will return to a playoff-caliber level in 2022.

Entire article: https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...in-22-and-not-replace-him-with-a-veteran.html

Anyway, it's been a tough week in Cleveland.....

 
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Sometimes you’re Joe Montana, sometimes you’re Steve DeBerg. Baker just hasn’t been able to admit which he is yet.
Absolutely. I'm no "Baker bro", I haven't even been a Clowns fan for almost a decade. I've just cautioned against being so gung-ho about moving on from him because if any franchise should know the grass isn't always greener on the other side, it's this one. Has Baker been "elite?" No, he hasn't. But he's been quite good in 2/4 years there and has been, by a wide margin, the best QB they've had in their 23 seasons since this death march started. Now, you're likely moving on from him in the slim hope that you can find an upgrade, and I don't see any obvious candidates. It's doubly dangerous, because in theory, this roster is built to win now. You don't have time to find a "good enough" bridge QB and draft somebody in 2022 or 2023 and develop him. The other option is deny Mayfield's trade request and "stay together for the kids" for one more year in a marriage heading for divorce. Going after Watson was an extreme longshot and doing so so publicly was foolish.

I don't know what the answer is, but I know the way it's all been handled was just classic Clowns. In my opinion, they should have let Mayfield heal up, hope he can return to his 2020 form and hopefully make a run in 2022. Now there's total uncertainty at the most important position on the field and no clear path to improvement.

I'd say "maybe it all works out", but this is Cleveland; it's gonna be a huge shit show and they're gonna go 6-11 next year. Book it.
 
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Absolutely. I'm no "Baker bro", I haven't even been a Clowns fan for almost a decade. I've just cautioned against being so gung-ho about moving on from him because if any franchise should know the grass isn't always greener on the other side, it's this one. Has Baker been "elite?" No, he hasn't. But he's been quite good in 2/4 years there and has been, by a wide margin, the best QB they've had in their 23 seasons since this death march started. Now, you're likely moving on from him in the slim hope that you can find an upgrade, and I don't see any obvious candidates. It's doubly dangerous, because in theory, this roster is built to win now. You don't have time to find a "good enough" bridge QB and draft somebody in 2022 or 2023 and develop him. The other option is deny Mayfield's trade request and "stay together for the kids" for one more year in a marriage heading for divorce. Going after Watson was an extreme longshot and doing so so publicly was foolish.

I don't know what the answer is, but I know the way it's all been handled was just classic Clowns. In my opinion, they should have let Mayfield heal up, hope he can return to his 2020 form and hopefully make a run in 2022. Now there's total uncertainty at the most important position on the field and no clear path to improvement.

I'd say "maybe it all works out", but this is Cleveland; it's gonna be a huge shit show and they're gonna go 6-11 next year. Book it.
They shot their wad on an upgrade, now it’s finding a placeholder for 2-3 years until the next draft pick is ready. I’m not big on them moving on either, but Baker is way more Kirk Cousins than Aaron Rogers, even when he’s not hurt.
 
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They shot their wad on an upgrade, now it’s finding a placeholder for 2-3 years until the next draft pick is ready. I’m not big on them moving on either, but Baker is way more Kirk Cousins than Aaron Rogers, even when he’s not hurt.
You're probably right, but Kirk Cousins sure looks good compared to Jake Delhomme, Jason Campbell and Trent Dilfer.
 
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I'm seeing Jimmy G floated as a potential move a lot of places. Look, I'm appreciative of what he did for the Niners over the last 5 years. He was a steadying influence. But if anybody thinks he's an upgrade over Baker, they're sorely mistaken. Yes, the Niners reached a SB with him. But they did so with a savage defense and unbelievably potent running game. I'd argue they got that far in spite of Jimmy. Not to mention the fact he was injured in 3/4 full seasons he was in the Bay Area.
 
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