BP Awards: The W.W. Hayes (Best Coach)

[OH10]

how many games have you watched live (stadium)?

Considering i have Gameplan, way too many. In the games I watched I did not see him coaching players on the sidelines, talking to other coaches, or sending in a play. My perception based on that was that he wasn't doing much coaching. Sure, he could have been heavily involved in "gameplanning." But I didn't see him "coaching" any players. Coaches tend to do that from time to time.

Sure, I'm making assumptions, but that's what I see. Don't think you're not making assumption either based upon the simple fact that he's on the sidelines and still has the title of "head coach."

 

[jwinslow]

touche. either way, I just think it's next to impossible to judge something like this. A coach could be really active and doing a horrible job, whereas another coach could chime in much less but achieve much more with better coaching.

I'm merely saying that the times they show joepa is merely a fraction of the activity of joepa. What about timeouts (especially all of the TV ones)?

I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't think it's a fair assessment. If he were 25, I don't think it would even occur to anyone.

 

[OH10]

This board is getting bitter...and that is depressing.

Can someone not have an opinion without being "bitter"? If I could find the post, I'd show you where I picked Penn State to beat Ohio State before the year even started. I made $50 with a buddy of mine after PSU's 8th win. Telling everyone I know at the beginning of the season that Penn State would have a resurgence, hearing a ton of shit because of it, and then having it happen, was one of my prouder moments.

But a discussion was started about the merits of JoePa's coaching this year, and not by me. I merely decided to chime in with my opinion. I thought that's what we did here.

If he were 25, I don't think it would even occur to anyone.

You're probably right. But in all of sports, I've never seen a young coach be this hands off during a game.

 

[osugrad21]

Can someone not have an opinion without being "bitter"?

But a discussion was started about the merits of JoePa's coaching this year, and not by me. I merely decided to chime in with my opinion. I thought that's what we did here.

Actually, it was not in reference to you but to an overall climate lately. However, if you feel the shoe fits...

Buckeye fans are known around the country as whiners anytime anything does not go our way...email flooding, phonecalls, boycotts, etc. Many of the "opinions" lately do nothing but verify that.

 

[stxbuck]

I didn't notice that Vandy had wound up the season 5-6 when I voted Bobby Johnson #1-I thought they were like 6-5, or 7-4. Even so, 5-6 w/ a schedule in the SEC East and beating South Carolina and Tennessee is huge for Vandy-Johnson did a lot to wring out an almost .500 season for Vandy.

 

[OH10]

Actually, it was not in reference to you but to an overall climate lately. However, if you feel the shoe fits...

Buckeye fans are known around the country as whiners anytime anything does not go our way...email flooding, phonecalls, boycots, etc. Many of the "opinions" lately do nothing but verify that.

I agree, I hate that perception. But that's not me. I'm embarrassed when I read the ammo some Buckeye fans give Stew Mandel or Trev Alberts. But that shouldn't mean that we can't have ANY negative opinions about PSU or Texas just because we lost to them (fair and square i should add). Are we that paranoid?

And it was in reference to me.... don't kid yourself. I'm the only poster in this thread at this moment arguing this opinion.

 

[osugrad21]

And it was in reference to me.... don't kid yourself. I'm the only poster in this thread at this moment arguing this opinion.

I never kid myself, but thanks for the insight. If it was directed at you or if I had any issue with just your post, you would have known it via PMs or I would have quoted you. I don't agree with your opinion of Paterno's coaching, but I made that clear. The comment that followed was global...not just for you. If you think otherwise, you don't pay much attention around here.

Look in the other threads (recruiting, awards, etc) for my examples. Your post was the latest but certainly not the only one I was referencing.

I won't kid myself but just make sure you don't flatter yourself...

 

[OH10]

I won't kid myself but just make sure you don't flatter yourself...

Poetic. Guilty as charged.

 

[Bucklion]

I think the bottom line is that no one knows what coaches do in practice. I mean LLLLoyd Carr looks like he's twisting his dick in his hand on the sideline like 80% of the time during a game, but that doesn't mean I can say he has nothing to do with how good his team is. Michigan's offensive lines are usually pretty good...how do I know he isn't hands-on teaching a certain blocking technique? I personally will flat out admit I have been guilty of thinking the same things of Paterno, Bowden, Carr, and a slew of other "figurehead" coaches over the years...but I really just can't say, because I don't see them in "nuts and bolts" time.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

I've got two problems with that top 10.

1. Paterno is getting way too much credit for PSU's success. The guy doesn't make offensive or defensive calls, and it seems that he's more of a figurehead at this point than anything else. No way is he coach of the year.

2. Les Miles has no business being in the top 10. His team should have lost against Auburn (opposing K missed 5 field goals in an OT game) and a 4-6 Arkansas team. Moreover, they were run out of the stadium in the SEC championship.

Other than that, I'd agree with the top 10.

I've got two problems with your reply:

1. Everyone in the world was in Paterno's ass when PSU was sucking hind tit, yet when PSU rises from the ashes he has nothing to do with it. Trust me, Paterno definitely runs the program, not his assistants. The improvement in PSU's offense (fueled by the improvements in Robinson at QB and the arrival of their two freshmen stars, and not necessarily by their OC) allowed their defense to be more aggressive. This in turn kept the opposing offenses off the field more and giving the ball back to their offense, and they just fed off each other. The on-field performance of Hali and POSlosersky had as much of an impact on the success of the defense as did any scheme.

2. You try coaching a team after your state has been flattened, you can't go back to your school, and you can barely find a place to hold practice. Concerning the games they "should've" lost, we should've lost at Purdue and we almost lost at Illinois in 2002, but we didn't and it didn't keep Tressel from being named the coach of the year. As for Miles being lucky that Auburn's kicker sucked that night, it's about the only real good luck they had all season. Miles certainly deserves serious consideration.

 

[buckeyeboy]

Well, you know I beg to differ on both points.

Any coach that can get his team through the eye of a hurricane, a thoroughly disrupted season -- with effectively no chance for the traditional bye week - into the SEC championship game is going to get my vote. And Les Miles did.

As for JoePa, and getting credit. When they failed in prior years he took the blame. True, he had to adjust his mangement style and long-standing polices on Freshman participation. That showed me he was still open to change, at a very advanced age when most of us would doing impersonations of Walter Matthau on a bad day. He deserves credit, even if it derives from making the role of his assistant coaches and coordinators more empowered.

This is exactly my problem with the system--voters' perceptions (which seem to be shared by at least some on this website). More specifically, there's too much sympathy voting going on, both with respect to Miles and Paterno. Look at your analysis above: it essentially boils down to Miles deserves credit b/c everyone should feel sorry for him and LSU b/c of the hurricane and Paterno deserves credit b/c everyone should feel sorry for him b/c he's been blasted by the media the past few years for being someone who's old and needs to retire.

PSU had a good year this year, no doubt about it. But I wouldn't give Paterno the nod over any other coach that went 10-1. LSU, if you listened to any of the reports all season, had as much talent as anyone in the nation. The reality was, however, that they didn't get it done on the field--they lost two games (one in the SEC championship in which they looked like they didn't even belong on the field, and one AT HOME to a very, very bad Tennessee team) and they were very lucky to have not lost several more. I think LSU underachieved greatly and I would not have Les Miles' name anywhere near the top of a coach of the year award.

 

[Onebuckfan]

I'd go with Mack Brown, coaching with two monkeys on his back.(good recruiter-poor coach, and OU owns him) he goes undefeated with what I think is the most impressive win in college football this year beating a very strong tOSU team at night in the Shoe. Do I think this makes Mack a great coach,No. but it should makehim coach of the year in 05.

 

[AKAK]

This is exactly my problem with the system--voters' perceptions (which seem to be shared by at least some on this website). More specifically, there's too much sympathy voting going on, both with respect to Miles and Paterno. Look at your analysis above: it essentially boils down to Miles deserves credit b/c everyone should feel sorry for him and LSU b/c of the hurricane and Paterno deserves credit b/c everyone should feel sorry for him b/c he's been blasted by the media the past few years for being someone who's old and needs to retire.

PSU had a good year this year, no doubt about it. But I wouldn't give Paterno the nod over any other coach that went 10-1. LSU, if you listened to any of the reports all season, had as much talent as anyone in the nation. The reality was, however, that they didn't get it done on the field--they lost two games (one in the SEC championship in which they looked like they didn't even belong on the field, and one AT HOME to a very, very bad Tennessee team) and they were very lucky to have not lost several more. I think LSU underachieved greatly and I would not have Les Miles' name anywhere near the top of a coach of the year award.

Good Lord, You bitch like a little girl... the people voted, its OVER... these were the results... big freaking deal, we're not sending them a Trophy... no recruits are going to Penn State or LSU or anywhere because the coach won the "Buckeye Planet WW Hayes Memorial Award"

I don't know why you have to cry incessantly about Miles-- who finished 9th, and one person voted him first... and say "Too much sympathy voting" he was 9th.

As for Paterno, Penn State overacheived, plain and simple... if you wouldn't have put him ahead of the 1 loss teams, fine. That's all you have to say.

I didn't vote for Paterno at number 1... but he won... I'm over it. That's how "the system" as you put it, works... I have a feeling that the only problem you have with "the system", is that no one is listening to you.

 

[daddyphatsacs]

This is exactly my problem with the system--voters' perceptions (which seem to be shared by at least some on this website). More specifically, there's too much sympathy voting going on, both with respect to Miles and Paterno. Look at your analysis above: it essentially boils down to Miles deserves credit b/c everyone should feel sorry for him and LSU b/c of the hurricane and Paterno deserves credit b/c everyone should feel sorry for him b/c he's been blasted by the media the past few years for being someone who's old and needs to retire.

PSU had a good year this year, no doubt about it. But I wouldn't give Paterno the nod over any other coach that went 10-1. LSU, if you listened to any of the reports all season, had as much talent as anyone in the nation. The reality was, however, that they didn't get it done on the field--they lost two games (one in the SEC championship in which they looked like they didn't even belong on the field, and one AT HOME to a very, very bad Tennessee team) and they were very lucky to have not lost several more. I think LSU underachieved greatly and I would not have Les Miles' name anywhere near the top of a coach of the year award.

Obviously you know football better than most, why don't you go ahead and give us your top 6 for coaches. That way we can see where you stand.

I'm not sure why you refuse to give Paterno any more credit than TCU's coach (they went 10-1 also).........or Belotti at Oregon (10-1). I think Paterno did a hell of a job this year. For those who just call him a figure head of the program, you are full of shit. The guy is a great ambassador for college football in the world of the Fulmer's, Carr's, and Barnett's. He represents more than just an aging icon to me, he (along with Bowden in a lesser form) is the bridge between the new age, and the Woody's Hayes' and Bo Schembechler's of the coaching world. He cares about his players, and their families, and made Penn St. what they are. Not many coaches in college football can boast that. So when he comes back from mediocrity, especially after most had written him off, I give him credit for the coaching job he did. Regardless of the playcalling, he still calls the main shots. That is why he is my coach of the year.

Now please give me your coach of the year and reason's why.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

All of this bickering about awards reminds me of one sad fact.

If Rick Warren and others who are attempting to return civility to the world are not successful, then people will continue to lose respect for each others' opinions and continue to lose the ability to "admit a little of our own fallibility". Eventually we will get to a place where these awards will not be given. Why would an award based entirely on other peoples' opinions have any value whatever in a culture that places no value on other peoples' opinions?

It's awfully popular to SAY that you don't care what other people think. But if it were true that good people did not value the opinions of others, then these awards would never have been conceived. These awards get ALL of their value from the value of other peoples' opinions. Valuing them means respecting them, and the people they came from.

This is especially important for a message board. If you don't respect or value other peoples' opinions, why are you here?

edit: Greenies to whomever names the person I quoted in the second paragraph.