Big Ten Conference Divisions

[Buckskin86]

Q: Do you have any thoughts on the Big Ten divisional alignment when the league expands to 12 next season?

Tressel: My suggestion would be East-West. Penn State and us and the two Michigans and the two Indianas. Then, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Illinois.

Ohio State's Tressel, Pryor sensing another big run - NCAA Football - CBSSports.com

 

[Jaxbuck]

Q: Do you have any thoughts on the Big Ten divisional alignment when the league expands to 12 next season?

Tressel: My suggestion would be East-West. Penn State and us and the two Michigans and the two Indianas. Then, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Illinois.

Sorry JT but screw that. OSU, scUM, PSU and MSU in the same division while Nebraska only has to worry about Iowa and Wisconsin being good once every 4 years?

Pass.

OSU/scUM on one side, UN/PSU on the other. Do whatever you want with the rest.

 

[jwinslow]

Sorry JT but screw that. OSU, scUM, PSU and MSU in the same division

MSU does not deserved to be singled out here. They've been fairly mediocre, and that will likely continue if UM gets a more satisfactory coach like Harbaugh up north.

OSU/scUM on one side, UN/PSU on the other. Do whatever you want with the rest.

So bye-bye to the OSU-PSU matchups (yes I consider 2-3x a decade to be 'bye bye'), which was arguably the best series in the big ten for the last decade? (note: there's a difference between biggest & best)

Fairness ruined the OU-Neb series, and it will do the same to this one.

No one has any idea what PSU will be like after Paterno, which is coming up soon. It's not like they've been stellar with him, they capitalized on two suspect OSU squads with bad QB play, and the rest of the time they've been either Wisconsin (the good versions) or Iowa (the bad ones)

 

[Buckeye Nut]

Don't know if anybody caught College Football Live today, but Joe Schad said he expects Ohio State and Michigan to be put in separate divisions. I'll lose all respect for Delany if he lets that happen. I don't know what's so complicated about this division thing. I think it splits perfectly East and West and maintains nearly every rivalry within the divisions plus it's keeps the fans best interests with travel concerns making the majority of road trips in conference relatively short. I don't think the competative balance between the two divisions would be as bad as some seem to think. People are being blinded by perseption of the programs historically, but looking at the facts Iowa and Wisconsin have been every bit as good as Michigan and Penn State over the last decade. Ohio State has the nod over Nebraska recently but Nebraska is on the upswing big time with Pelini. After that I'd say Illinois, Northwestern, Minnesota compared to MSU, Indiana, Purdue is a wash.

Don't out think yourselves on this thing Big Ten office.

 

[Zander42]

Sorry JT but screw that. OSU, scUM, PSU and MSU in the same division while Nebraska only has to worry about Iowa and Wisconsin being good once every 4 years?

Pass.

OSU/scUM on one side, UN/PSU on the other. Do whatever you want with the rest.

Nah, I have to agree with coach in this one. Trying to align the division based on who you think is going to be good is bound to fail. You can never predict what is going to happen, so don't even try. Just check the ACC and their brilliant "FSU and Miami will meet in an epic ACCCG every year!!!" logic.

Align the divisions geographically and let the teams do what they do.

Oh and right now, the west division, with Nebraska, Iowa, Wisconsin, and decent Northwestern and Minnesota, would be considerably tougher than the east with dregs like Indiana and TSUN.

 

[t_BuckeyeScott]

1. Joe Schaad is an idiot.

2. Joe Schad is an idiot.

 

[cincibuck]

Don't know if anybody caught College Football Live today, but Joe Schad said he expects Ohio State and Michigan to be put in separate divisions. I'll lose all respect for Delany if he lets that happen. I don't know what's so complicated about this division thing. I think it splits perfectly East and West and maintains nearly every rivalry within the divisions plus it's keeps the fans best interests with travel concerns making the majority of road trips in conference relatively short. I don't think the competative balance between the two divisions would be as bad as some seem to think. People are being blinded by perseption of the programs historically, but looking at the facts Iowa and Wisconsin have been every bit as good as Michigan and Penn State over the last decade. Ohio State has the nod over Nebraska recently but Nebraska is on the upswing big time with Pelini. After that I'd say Illinois, Northwestern, Minnesota compared to MSU, Indiana, Purdue is a wash.

Don't out think yourselves on this thing Big Ten office.

So you put the top 3 programs in one division and give the new kid an all but assured route to the CCG year in and year out? You put the three biggest stadiums in one division? You put the bulk of the TV draw in one division?

Michigan isn't going to be down forever. They have too many assets to not rebound. Iowa isn't going to be tough over the long haul. Illinois -- Minnie? Lightening hasn't struck there more than 3 or 4 years in a decade.

 

[buckeyesin07]

So you put the top 3 programs in one division and give the new kid an all but assured route to the CCG year in and year out? You put the three biggest stadiums in one division? You put the bulk of the TV draw in one division?

Michigan isn't going to be down forever. They have too many assets to not rebound. Iowa isn't going to be tough over the long haul. Illinois -- Minnie? Lightening hasn't struck there more than 3 or 4 years in a decade.

I agree. The solution seems pretty simple--throw PSU with the teams in the west.

 

[jwinslow]

I agree. The solution seems pretty simple--throw PSU with the teams in the west.

And now you've stacked the west division.

Who else can truly compete with OSU besides UM? Sparty? Purdue? I don't mean win a random game, but be a true competitor. If you moved either of those to the west, they'd be the 6th best squad.

 

[cincibuck]

I agree. The solution seems pretty simple--throw PSU with the teams in the west.

Buried in a Detroit Freep website posted yesterday was a quote from Tressel stating that the Michigan wasn't going anywhere, but it might not continue to be the final game of the season -- that suggests to me that the conference is considering Michigan -- Nebraska to anchor one division and OSU -- Penn State the other. I like that split.

As for a CCG -- let's begin with the fact that I hate CCGs as a concept including the basketball tourney as they have the power to make the regular season meaningless and they put an enormous strain on athletes -- should only happen in years when a team in each division have/has (?) identical conference records, and never a repeat of a regular season game. Iowa - OSU in 02 comes to mind.

 

[cincibuck]

And now you've stacked the west division.

Who else can truly compete with OSU besides UM? Sparty? Purdue? I don't mean win a random game, but be a true competitor. If you moved either of those to the west, they'd be the 6th best squad.

There are, IMO, four programs in the new Big 10 with the facilities, fan base, money, history to compete for National Championship recognition: Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State and Nebraska. The rest can be split pretty much what ever way you want -- Northwester in one, Indiana in the other, Michigan State in one, Iowa or Wisconsin in the other, the rest are all interchangeable parts.

 

[jwinslow]

There are, IMO, four programs in the new Big 10 with the facilities, fan base, money, history to compete for National Championship recognition: Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State and Nebraska.

I agree that's how it should be, but is it actually the case? Is PSU truly a NC competitor while in the tough b10? For most of a decade they have not been anywhere close. They have won 2 b10 titles in 10 years, and those only occurred during years where the competition was suspect - UM was lousy, as was OSU's QB play against PSU. When either of those two squads were more balanced, they were a second-class citizen.

I think there's a strong case to be made that Wisconsin is very comparable to Penn State as a program, despite the difference in perception.

The rest can be split pretty much what ever way you want -- Northwester in one, Indiana in the other, Michigan State in one, Iowa or Wisconsin in the other, the rest are all interchangeable parts.

Indiana is a doormat. Sparty is comparable to NW (assuming Fitzgerald stays).

Wisconsin is a lot better then the teams you're trying to sell as interchangeable, and I'd argue that Iowa's peaks are a lot better than MSU/Purdue's too (though the hawkeyes undoubtedly have their valleys).

 

[GoodLifeSean]

If we look at 2000-2008 winning percentages (couldn't find 2000-2009 for all)
1. tOSU-E 7. Purdon't-E
2. scUM-E 8. Minny-W
3. Wisky-W 9. Sparty-E
4. Nebraska-W 10. Northwestern-W
5. Iowa-W 11. Illinois-W
6. PSU-E 12. Indiana-E

If we go by average division rank that means the East would be a 6.2 and the west would be a 6.8 based on rank of six teams / 6

The average east winning percentage is .5766667
The average west winning percentage is .5533333

Take out the tops of each division OSU/Wisky and you get
The average east winning percentage is .534
The average west winning percentage is .532

None of those stats freak me out too much additionally
Last year only six teams had winning records OSU, Iowa, PSU, Wisky, and Nebraska were 10+ win teams, Northwestern went 8-5 (Should have been 9-4 be we can't count should haves)

Point is put it into east and west it makes sense in my mind and the numbers are pretty damn close too.

Winning percentages obtained here
Last years results obtained from the World Wide Leader in bashing the state of Ohio

 

[cincibuck]

Is PSU truly a NC competitor while in the tough b10? For most of a decade they have not been anywhere close. They have won 2 b10 titles in 10 years, and those only occurred during years where the competition was suspect - UM was lousy, as was OSU's QB play against PSU. When either of those two squads were more balanced, they were a second-class citizen.
Wisconsin is a lot better then the teams you're trying to sell as interchangeable, and I'd argue that Iowa's peaks are a lot better than MSU/Purdue's too (though the hawkeyes undoubtedly have their valleys).

1. Penn State has two certified NCs in 82 - 86 and been in the hunt several other times.

2. Last time I saw Wisconsin and the words NC in the same breath Ron Vanderkellen was tossing the ball to Pat Richter.

3. If they're not in the sma e class os the Buckeyes why has OSU not run away with the series?
Ohio State
Ohio State and Penn State first played in 1912, but until 1993 when Penn State joined the Big Ten conference, the meetings were infrequent. Including their last non-conference meeting in the 1980 Fiesta Bowl, the series was 6-2 in favor of Penn State before the Big Ten established the two teams as designated conference rivals playing annually starting in 1993.[15] Penn State trails the overall series by a slim 13-12 margin and is 6-11 in conference play.[16]
Penn State is 5-8 at Ohio Stadium (the 1912 game was played at its predecessor, Ohio Field) after a 13-6 win in 2008, breaking a seven-game away losing streak at Ohio Stadium. Penn State is 5-5 against Ohio State in Beaver Stadium, including a memorable come-from-behind win in 2001 to give Joe Paterno his 324th win, passing Bear Bryant for the lead in career victories among major college coaches.[16][17]
At least two meetings have determined the conference champion.[citation needed] Of the 24 games they played, 9 have been determined by 7 points or less, 14 games by 14 points or less. Penn State has shut out Ohio State three times but all occurred prior to Penn State joining the Big Ten, while Ohio State has never held Penn State below six points.[16] Due to the nature of the rivalry, a large number of games between the two teams are night games.

I have no problem with stating that Penn State is the weaker of the top 3 B10 programs, but they represent a serious up grade in football talent to the overall league as does Nebraska. Their problem, as I see it, is that Iowa and Michigan have had their number and no one has the political strength to fire Paterno. Once they are free of Joe Pa they can be a real threat to the rest of the Big 10.

 

[jwinslow]

1. Penn State has two certified NCs in 82 - 86 and been in the hunt several other times.

Which was before they entered a tough big ten conference. Since that bump in competition, their greatness has dissipated rapidly and been replaced by a solid to very good program (like Wisconsin).

Much like Miami, they were great when they first joined the new conference (and should have had a split title), but have struggled to maintain that level of success since.

2. Last time I saw Wisconsin and the words NC in the same breath Ron Vanderkellen was tossing the ball to Pat Richards.

So you're denying that wisconsin & penn state have been pretty comparable programs in the big ten?

If they're not in the sma e class os the Buckeyes why has OSU not run away with the series?

OSU hasn't run away with the Wisconsin series either. I didn't say PSU wasn't very competitive with OSU, I said they have been a second-class citizen in the big ten race except when UM & OSU were suspect. Now they add

Tressel had a rebuilding year in 01. Since that time:

In 6 of the 8 years, PSU did not win a title.
In 2 of the 2 other years, PSU won a title but shared it with OSU, and OSU/UM were suspect.

In 6 of the 8 years, OSU won a title.
In 1 of the 2 other years, their final game was for the b10 title & a potential NC trip.

In 3 of the 8 years, OSU has played for a NC, and were in contention in 03 & 05.

I think it's safe to say OSU was on a different level from PSU.

During that span:

87-16 OSU
72-32 WIS
67-33 PSU

PSU has a much richer history than Wisconsin, but JoePa is also their history. Wisconsin has shown that they can maintain success even after switching coaches (and a significant downgrade in coaching acumen imo).

Once they are free of Joe Pa they can be a real threat to the rest of the Big 10.

That's a pretty huge assumption that flies in the face of many other programs that tried to replace a legend.