Big Ten Conference Divisions

[Jaxbuck]

I know this is a fun exercise and it helps get through the off season but the realignment is really easy imo.

OSU/scUM and 4 others on one side.

PSU/UN +4 on the other.

Iowa, Wisky, MSU etc can be better than some of the "big four" every once in a while but they'll never sustain it. Your best bet for year in year out parity is that split of the top 4 historical programs. No guarantees but the best odds of a fair split on an annual basis.

 

[Jake]

Just saw this on the NW board, which splits the football strength fairly evenly:

Teams with white (or cream) as a color:
Indiana
MSU
Nebraska
NW'ern
Penn St
Wisconsin

Teams without white:
Illinois
Iowa
TSUN
Minny
tOSU
Purdue

But I really think the divisions need to be called something besides 'White' and Colored', as Just Gary suggested. :tongue2:

Are you sure they weren't talking about the SEC?

 

[kn1f3party]

I don't think it's reckless to think about it - it's not as if some grave consequences await those who think about it. I just think the opinion that it's plausible UM permanently becomes is middling-to-weak football program is not very realistic. Yes, Army and Minnesota were once national powers - in an age before enormous amounts of money became a critical component of long-term success, and before the dream of becoming a millionaire in the NFL existed. (It's also no random coincidence that Army was a football power during WWII) Since those gradual economic/market developments came fully into existence, the power structure has been pretty stable. There have been a few additions to the power elite, but permanent dropouts have been almost non-existent, especially among the long-time elite-of-the-elite, like UM.

I wouldn't say any team permanently becoming weak is plausible, 50 or 100 years go a long way. I do think, however, that if another 10 to 15 years of mediocrity occur it makes the climb that much more difficult.

If Minnesota were to rise back up, it would be a tough sell that they are legit now because only your grandparents remember when they were a powerhouse program. I'm fairly sure UM will be able avert the threat of a similar fate, but 10, 20, 30 years go by and kids aren't going to care about the stone age and name alone won't be enough.

 

[Jake]

The east-west breakdown seems most logical to me, particularly when going beyond football. Travel expenses are lessened by sticking to geography. For many sports, that matters.

Ohio State
Penn State
Michigan
Indiana
Purdue
Michigan State

Wisconsin
Illinois
Iowa
Minnesota
Northwestern
Nebraska

I would like to see a designated rival in the other division that meet every year, though.

Ohio State-Nebraska
Penn State-Iowa
Michigan-Wisconsin
Illinois-Indiana
Purdue-Northwestern
Minnesota-Michigan State

No matter how you do it you'll never have a balanced schedule, which I prefer. I'd have a ten team conference, 9 conference games and 3 OOC games, but I realize those days are over in the Big Ten.

 

[zincfinger]

The east-west breakdown seems most logical to me, particularly when going beyond football. Travel expenses are lessened by sticking to geography. For many sports, that matters.

Would a divisional setup for football necessarily need to be applied to other sports? Couldn't you go with different divisions, or without divisions at all, on a sport-by-sport basis?

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

I would like to see a designated rival in the other division that meet every year, though.

Ohio State-Nebraska
Penn State-Iowa
Michigan-Wisconsin
Illinois-Indiana
Purdue-Northwestern
Minnesota-Michigan State

Michigan and Minnesota should play each year due to the Little Brown Jug trophy.

I also think we should play Illinois each year because of the Illibuck trophy.

EDIT: Under the East/West setup, 7 of the 10 of the long-established trophies would be played for each year:

• Illinois-Northwestern (Sweet Sioux Tomahawk/Land of Lincoln Trophy)
• Indiana-Purdue (Old Oaken Bucket)
• Indiana-Michigan State (Old Brass Spittoon)
• Iowa-Minnesota (Floyd of Rosedale)
• Iowa-Wisconsin (Heartland Trophy)
• Minnesota-Wisconsin (Slab of Bacon/Paul Bunyan's Axe)
• Michigan-Michigan State (Paul Bunyan Trophy)

The three that wouldn't be played for annually :

• Michigan-Minnesota (Little Brown Jug)
• Illinois-Ohio State (Illibuck)
• Illinois-Purdue (Purdue Cannon)

There are also two other trophies, that since they're relatively new (and they deal with Penn State), that no one should really give a shit about :

• Minnesota-Penn State (Governor's Victory Bell)
• Michigan State-Penn State (Land Grant Trophy)

EDIT 2: The Heartland Trophy (Iowa-Wisconsin) is only 6 years old...

 

[Zurp]

Would a divisional setup for football necessarily need to be applied to other sports? Couldn't you go with different divisions, or without divisions at all, on a sport-by-sport basis?

I'd assume so, since I believe that the Big 12 (while they still have 12 teams) has divisions for football, but not for basketball. Someone else can confirm or deny that.

I don't like the idea of a cross-division rivalry, unless they increase the number of conference games to 9. With 8 conference games, each team should play 3 games against the opposite division. On average, a team should play every team in the opposite division every 2 years. Or, to keep the home-and-away deal going, every team in the conference will have visited your home stadium at least once every four years, and your team will visit every other stadium at least once every four years. If you have a cross-division rivalry, that number goes to five years to play every team once home and once away. The Bearcats seem to come to Columbus more often than that, and none of us could stomach letting them into the Big Ten.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

Adam Rittenberg weighs in on the divisions, and it's worth a read. For the most part it stand on its own, but there is one bit that deserves a comment. In discussing the match-ups of the league's 4 heavy-weights, Adam had this to say about his proposed divisional alignment:

LINK

In my format, you get four potential blockbuster matchups (Penn State-Michigan and Nebraska-Ohio State are the only misses, and I can live with that)

Uh... Adam?

Nebraska and Ohio State won't miss each other in your alignment. You have this little thing called the Big Ten Championship Game, aka Nebraska vs. Ohio State.

 

[kn1f3party]

Adam Rittenberg weighs in on the divisions, and it's worth a read. For the most part it stand on its own, but there is one bit that deserves a comment. In discussing the match-ups of the league's 4 heavy-weights, Adam had this to say about his proposed divisional alignment:

LINK



Uh... Adam?

Nebraska and Ohio State won't miss each other in your alignment. You have this little thing called the Big Ten Championship Game, aka Nebraska vs. Ohio State.

I liked his suggestion but I think you need to keep Northwestern and Illinois together--would be easy by moving cross division so Indiana and Wisconsin play. Either way Wisconsin gets boned, might as well preserve in-state rivalry. In speaking with Cornhusker fans I'm surprised how many of them want it to be split geographically, as if the past 15 years never happened.

 

[Zurp]

In speaking with Cornhusker fans I'm surprised how many of them want it to be split geographically, as if the past 15 years never happened.

The logic is that they want their toughest opposition in their division to be Wisconsin and Iowa, instead of Ohio State and Penn State. It wouldn't make the West a phone-it-in division, but it would be a bit easier than the East.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Michigan and Minnesota should play each year due to the Little Brown Jug trophy.

I also think we should play Illinois each year because of the Illibuck trophy.

EDIT: Under the East/West setup, 7 of the 10 of the long-established trophies would be played for each year:

• Illinois-Northwestern (Sweet Sioux Tomahawk/Land of Lincoln Trophy)
• Indiana-Purdue (Old Oaken Bucket)
• Indiana-Michigan State (Old Brass Spittoon)
• Iowa-Minnesota (Floyd of Rosedale)
• Iowa-Wisconsin (Heartland Trophy)
• Minnesota-Wisconsin (Slab of Bacon/Paul Bunyan's Axe)
• Michigan-Michigan State (Paul Bunyan Trophy)

The three that wouldn't be played for annually :

• Michigan-Minnesota (Little Brown Jug)
• Illinois-Ohio State (Illibuck)
• Illinois-Purdue (Purdue Cannon)

There are also two other trophies, that since they're relatively new (and they deal with Penn State), that no one should really give a shit about :

• Minnesota-Penn State (Governor's Victory Bell)
• Michigan State-Penn State (Land Grant Trophy)

EDIT 2: The Heartland Trophy (Iowa-Wisconsin) is only 6 years old...

Looks like Stewie reads BP:

Prospective divisions for expanded Big Ten, Pac-10 come 2011 - Stewart Mandel - SI.com

 

[kn1f3party]

Looks like Stewie reads BP:

Prospective divisions for expanded Big Ten, Pac-10 come 2011 - Stewart Mandel - SI.com

Over the course of the past two weeks I've discovered most of these guys get their information from Internet message boards. The conference expansion hysteria shed a lot of light on credibility.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

Over the course of the past two weeks I've discovered most of these guys get their information from Internet message boards. The conference expansion hysteria shed a lot of light on credibility.

with 16 teams, can per the "rules" can you have four four team divisions with a four team playoff? ie two weeks of conference championships? the first of the weeks would go to say a higher seeded team, the championship played in alternating locations.


(it is even more interesting to me to look at where the championship could/should be played.)
assuming that a team cannot "host" the game in their own stadium (although its not something id be opposed to) you would have potentially

giants stadium
heinz field
browns
paul brown
lucas oil
solider field
ford field
dome in stl
kc?

toss in the reality of the stadiums um, psu, osu, neb, und, wisc, spartan, kinnick (all of which are over 70k)

so in reality based on size rotating it through those places is potentially better, but you have to deal with bias and complaining from the smaller stadium schools. so id expect a number to be placed with min capacity to deal with the situation.

 

[IronBuckI]

with 16 teams, can per the "rules" can you have four four team divisions with a four team playoff? ie two weeks of conference championships? the first of the weeks would go to say a higher seeded team, the championship played in alternating locations.

...

Per the current rules, that couldn't be done. The CCG exemption for a 13th game states that a conference with a minimum of 12 teams split into divisions with a minimum of 6 teams may have a 13th game as a conference championship game. Each division has to play a round robin within the division.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

Per the current rules, that couldn't be done. The CCG exemption for a 13th game states that a conference with a minimum of 12 teams split into divisions with a minimum of 6 teams may have a 13th game as a conference championship game. Each division has to play a round robin within the division.

which makes me wonder how much longer the ncaa/bcs system will stay in together. i mean the new larger pac, mid west, se, and maybe another super concentrate all of the major teams into four conferences, how long will they be willing to play under those rules and one automatic bid (plus maybe another) system of the bcs/ncaa?