Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[Muck]

I'm sure they've been mentioned in this thread already, but didn't really feel like fishing through all of the pages... Anyone else have any opinions on the University of Toronto as the 16th member of the B1G (obviously, definitely not as worthy as Nebraska or Penn State as a stand alone offer).

My post on 12-19-09.

And your post on 2-18-10.

Heh, while grabbing those I stumbled across my early tongue in cheek hyper conference proposal.

 

[scarletmike]

Back to B1G expansion... IF conference's feel the need to move to 16 Universities, I would honestly love to add the University of Toronto. They would be bad at first, but I really think they would get VERY competitive VERY quickly! Plus, their academics are second to none!

They would immediately pull all the best Canadian talent (80-90% at worst) in football and basketball, and the market (a lot of Canada) they bring would add a large financial boost to the conference. Once hockey is added to the B1G as a conference sport, can you imagine the following the B1G would get in hockey as UofT strives for a frozen four berth?

Toronto's a great city, and they already have an indoor football stadium that hosts close to 60,000 (I think).

I'm sure they've been mentioned in this thread already, but didn't really feel like fishing through all of the pages... Anyone else have any opinions on the University of Toronto as the 16th member of the B1G (obviously, definitely not as worthy as Nebraska or Penn State as a stand alone offer).

Are you referring to the Rogers Centre? If so, the University doesn't play there, and their actual football stadium seats 5,000. Their stadium used to seat upwards of 20,000 when it also served as a home to a Canadian international soccer team as well as others, but after they left, there wasn't enough draw so it was reduced to what it is now. If they could be slotted into Rogers Centre, then that would certainly be ideal, otherwise they have a serious facilities issue.

 

[Muck]

Are you referring to the Rogers Centre? If so, the University doesn't play there, and their actual football stadium seats 5,000. Their stadium used to seat upwards of 20,000 when it also served as a home to a Canadian international soccer team as well as others, but after they left, there wasn't enough draw so it was reduced to what it is now. If they could be slotted into Rogers Centre, then that would certainly be ideal, otherwise they have a serious facilities issue.

One idea I've toyed with in my head is to create a B1G associated conference for schools that aren't quite ready for acceptance to the conference but with some time & growth could eventually slot once they meet certain benchmarks.

In addition to Toronto you could add schools like UMass, UConn, Buffalo & Delaware. That would allow the conference to actually groom future members instead of just relying on luck.

In addition to the candidate schools you could round out the conference with programs with strong fan support that will likely never make the grade as B1G members but would be happy with a well managed home and access to the BTN. Appalachian State & ECU come to mind as prime candidates for long term members of the B1GJr.

 

[BuckTwenty]

One idea I've toyed with in my head is to create a B1G associated conference for schools that aren't quite ready for acceptance to the conference but with some time & growth could eventually slot once they meet certain benchmarks.

In addition to Toronto you could add schools like UMass, UConn, Buffalo & Delaware. That would allow the conference to actually groom future members instead of just relying on luck.

In addition to the candidate schools you could round out the conference with programs with strong fan support that will likely never make the grade as B1G members but would be happy with a well managed home and access to the BTN. Appalachian State & ECU come to mind as prime candidates for long term members of the B1GJr.

In essence, I think that's pretty much what mid-major conferences are. If Toronto really wanted to be considered, they would have to work their way up like any other school. Start in D-1AA (or lower), move up to D-1A in the MAC, Conference USA, etc, then if they pan out, they'll get picked up by a BCS conference.

For instance, a few years ago, Simon Fraser University became the first Canadian school to get accepted into the NCAA. I believe they are a part of Div II. Thus, if Toronto wanted to be a part of the NCAA, you gotta think they would go a similar route.

 

[scarletmike]

That is certainly a very interesting idea, and I like the approach. It broadens the BTN's footprint and appeal, but could create a crowding issue in terms of programming. With that many schools and subsequent sports fighting for airtime, you could run into an issue. While typically "dead" times like Thursday or Friday nights could be filled in that manner, a lot of those schools and their typical opponents still stick to a similar schedule as the larger schools. Obviously the B1G schools get the preference, but then would it really be as big of a draw for those smaller schools that likely wouldn't have as large an impact on increasing the network's bottom line?

 

[Mrstickball]

That is certainly a very interesting idea, and I like the approach. It broadens the BTN's footprint and appeal, but could create a crowding issue in terms of programming. With that many schools and subsequent sports fighting for airtime, you could run into an issue. While typically "dead" times like Thursday or Friday nights could be filled in that manner, a lot of those schools and their typical opponents still stick to a similar schedule as the larger schools. Obviously the B1G schools get the preference, but then would it really be as big of a draw for those smaller schools that likely wouldn't have as large an impact on increasing the network's bottom line?

Couldn't BTN push for more games through the week? AFAIK, Ohio State and Wisconsin have played OOC opponents on opening Thursday. You'd think that they could make a play or two for it - schedule the weekday games just after their bye week, so they get a few extra days to prepare for their regular Saturday opponent.

 

[MU-Buck]

My post on 12-19-09.

And your post on 2-18-10.

Heh, while grabbing those I stumbled across my early tongue in cheek hyper conference proposal.

Haha, thanks.... That seems like something I would say

And yes, I was talking about the Rogers Center for their stadium. No construction costs for a really nice facility that would only have to be rented 4-8 times a year (4 in conference games and then 0-4 out of conference games).

I don't really like the idea of a B1G jr... If a university is willing to commit to a winning program, there's no reason they can't get it, as long as the B1G views them worthy. That goes for Rutgers, Maryland, Toronto, etc.

 

[MaxBuck]

Interesting concept: B1G-in-waiting. UMass, UConn, Toronto, Rutgers, another 4 chosen with appropriate criteria.

 

[DaveyBoy]

As long as ND is in the ACC or headed there, Maryland isn't leaving.....even if the BIG begged it to.

Haha, thanks.... That seems like something I would say

And yes, I was talking about the Rogers Center for their stadium. No construction costs for a really nice facility that would only have to be rented 4-8 times a year (4 in conference games and then 0-4 out of conference games).

I don't really like the idea of a B1G jr... If a university is willing to commit to a winning program, there's no reason they can't get it, as long as the B1G views them worthy. That goes for Rutgers, Maryland, Toronto, etc.

 

[MaxBuck]

Interesting ratings from The Times (of London) regarding world universities. Note that, including Chicago at 10, ten B1G schools rank in the top 100.

10 Chicago
19 Northwestern
20 Michigan
31 Wisconsin
33 Illinois
47 Minnesota
53 Ohio State
61 Penn State
69 Purdue
94 Michigan State (tied with Notre Dame)

Indiana was ranked 134 and Iowa 169 by The Times; Nebraska is not among the top 400. (Oklahoma is in the 350-400 tier.)

Surprising (high) to me:

UCLA at 13, University of Washington at 24, UC Santa Barbara at 35

Surprising (low):

Rice at 75, Case Western at 104, Vanderbilt at 106, Dartmouth at 124

Full rankings at The Times Higher Education World University Rankings

 

[Woody1968]

Interesting ratings from The Times (of London) regarding world universities. Note that, including Chicago at 10, ten B1G schools rank in the top 100.

10 Chicago
19 Northwestern
20 Michigan
31 Wisconsin
33 Illinois
47 Minnesota
53 Ohio State
61 Penn State
69 Purdue
94 Michigan State (tied with Notre Dame)

Indiana was ranked 134 and Iowa 169 by The Times; Nebraska is not among the top 400. (Oklahoma is in the 350-400 tier.)

Surprising (high) to me:

UCLA at 13, University of Washington at 24, UC Santa Barbara at 35

Surprising (low):

Rice at 75, Case Western at 104, Vanderbilt at 106, Dartmouth at 124

Full rankings at The Times Higher Education World University Rankings

Not to nitpick, but Dartmouth isn't a University.

 

[redguard117]

Not to nitpick, but Dartmouth isn't a University.

Exactly. Many college rankings are derived from the volume of research/grad work published. For this reason, smaller liberal arts schools and the non-research oriented schools (Dartmouth and my school) are not as well represented. Princeton seems to be the anomaly

 

[MaxBuck]

Exactly. Many college rankings are derived from the volume of research/grad work published. For this reason, smaller liberal arts schools and the non-research oriented schools (Dartmouth and my school) are not as well represented. Princeton seems to be the anomaly

Plenty of research is done at Princeton.

Also, the rankings are of colleges and universities in aggregate.

I'm not suggesting this list is more or less valid than any other; it's just the first time I've seen it.

 

[Muck]

That is certainly a very interesting idea, and I like the approach. It broadens the BTN's footprint and appeal, but could create a crowding issue in terms of programming. With that many schools and subsequent sports fighting for airtime, you could run into an issue. While typically "dead" times like Thursday or Friday nights could be filled in that manner, a lot of those schools and their typical opponents still stick to a similar schedule as the larger schools. Obviously the B1G schools get the preference, but then would it really be as big of a draw for those smaller schools that likely wouldn't have as large an impact on increasing the network's bottom line?

I think you're poking at all the right areas that would need to be worked out.

Off the top of my head:

The schools would not gain ownership stakes in the BTN so some sort of media deal would of course have to be worked out. I'm of the mind that more content is a very good thing. Is the BTN really so overloaded that there isn't room for more games? I tend to think more programming would be a godsend.

A few of the schools other people have mentioned Rutgers, Maryland etc would be very unlikely to be targets for the associate league. Would in the world would Maryland have to gain? Joining the B1G as a full member would be attractive but otherwise they'd be much better off staying in the ACC.

Rutgers would only be feasible if the Big East finally disintegrates and has no where else to go. Realistically the same is probably true for UConn, I mainly included them because of their natural fit with some of the other schools I mentioned.

The primary idea is to help get a foothold in new regions & to have some measure of control over the growth of some potential future members (remember we're talking '100 year decisions') rather than relying on the current chaos to potentially spit out someone viable.

 

[Muck]

Since Max posted the new THE numbers I might as well include the link to my updated composite FBS school rankings.