Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[Jaxbuck]

Fuck Boston College.

Give me ND, Mizzou, Cuse and either Virginia or 'Nova

But one thing we are forgetting, college sports aren't really as big on the East Coast as you guys want them to be....there's a reason the Big East has stadiums that don't seat 40,000....

Its the TV sets I'm looking at, not asses in seats.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

[censored] Boston College.

Give me ND, Mizzou, Cuse and either Virginia or 'Nova

But one thing we are forgetting, college sports aren't really as big on the East Coast as you guys want them to be....there's a reason the Big East has stadiums that don't seat 40,000....

I agree, which is why I never viewed Rutgers as some magic bullet to the NYC market. I think it would take a combination of a couple of strategically located East Coast schools + Notre Dame + the lure of games against the traditional Big Ten schools to begin making an impact. The BTN will never displace pro sports as top dog in the Boston to Washington corridor. It could begin having enough impact and success though to get ESPN's panties in a bunch.

 

[muffler dragon]

No more so than Oklahoma (which has much stronger family dust bowl migrations to California) or Ohio State or Michigan (which have much larger alumni bases in California) or Texas (which has both). When Nebraska starts impacting BTN viewership and--more importantly--subscriber rates out West, I'll concede the point.

Notre Dame had at one time a true national fanbase, and even that was arguably confined to major urban areas with large concentrations of Catholic immigrants. Even that is in question today with the dissipation of those Catholics outside of the urban core neighborhoods, the lessened ties of their children and grandchildren to the church and the fact that those children and grandchildren went to colleges of their own rather than getting a factory job and automatically rooting for ND. That's not to say that the subway phenomenon isn't still alive and still passed down among some Catholic families, but I'd venture to say it's an echo of what it was a generation ago, much less its heyday in the 30s through 60s. Newer waves of Catholic immigrants only watch a ND game for the few seconds they skip past on their way to finding a soccer match.

Considering that I live in Oregon and see the 'Husker faithful both in person and in the numbers of their specific bars throughout the PNW, I'll consider your argument moot.

 

[MaliBuckeye]

Considering that I live in Oregon and see the 'Husker faithful both in person and in the numbers of their specific bars throughout the PNW, I'll consider your argument moot.

I've got muffler's back on this one- The largest Nebraska alumni base outside of the immediate states (Neb, Iowa, Kansas, Colorado, SDakota, Missouri, Etc) is in Seattle, with Portland second (according to my uncle in law that works in Alumni Affairs at UNL).

The Oregon trail was just too attractive...

 

[MrNuke]

Considering that I live in Oregon and see the 'Husker faithful both in person and in the numbers of their specific bars throughout the PNW, I'll consider your argument moot.

We have radio affiliates in Seattle, Denver, Kansas City, and Las Vegas. Pretty amazing for a state of 1.8 million.

 

[muffler dragon]

I've got muffler's back on this one- The largest Nebraska alumni base outside of the immediate states (Neb, Iowa, Kansas, Colorado, SDakota, Missouri, Etc) is in Seattle, with Portland second (according to my uncle in law that works in Alumni Affairs at UNL).

The Oregon trail was just too attractive...

Columbia River > Platte River.

 

[ysubuck]

I just watched that video of the blocked FG against Appy St. That was awesome.

And I love Charissa Thompson!!!

 

[dragurd]

Well if we're talking putting our boot up ESPN's ass I'd trade Mizzou for Texas despite how unsavory that whole thing played out with them.

 

[jlb1705]

Well if we're talking putting our boot up ESPN's ass I'd trade Mizzou for Texas despite how unsavory that whole thing played out with them.

Texas isn't going anywhere - They've established a fiefdom on ESPN's dime.

 

[dragurd]

True with ESPN propping them up like that they could afford to be an independent if the the former BIGXII disintegrates.

 

[Gatorubet]

That is just too funny

 

[Zippercat]

We have radio affiliates in Seattle, Denver, Kansas City, and Las Vegas. Pretty amazing for a state of 1.8 million.

We were in Seattle last September, a couple days before Nebraska played Washington there. All the hotels, streets and restaurants were full of Husker fans in their red sweaters and sweatshirts on Thursday, two days before the game!

At our hotel, the Sheraton, the lobby had a huge area set aside for their alumni club. Very professional looking setup, with banners/posters and such that were high end convention quality.

BTW, we chatted with several Husker fans and found each of them to be very nice people. They also were all very happy to be joining the Big Ten, although a couple mentioned that they had had bad experiences going to a game at State Penn!

 

[MrNuke]

Its the TV sets I'm looking at, not asses in seats.

At some level, and especially when we are talking about some of those schools back East the issue is related though. If you are Rutgers, a 40 mile drive from Times Square, and a New York metro area of 19 million people and you can't fill your 52,000 seat stadium on a consistent basis... I have little faith that you'll deliver the New York Metro Area. The NY area is a little different, because you have a built up Big Ten alumni base already there, but I still think counting tv sets can be a little simplistic.

 

[MrNuke]

The viewership doesn't really matter, it's the rights fees. Inside the B10 footprint the rights fees are close to $1 per subscriber (which often puts the B10 Network around 2nd or 3rd highest). Outside of the B10 footprint, I believe it's around $0.10 or something really small.

Rights fees in the context of the BTN actually means something different than the ~$1 carriage or subscriber in market monthly fee. The conference makes money in 3 ways from the Big Ten Network.

It obviously owns 51% of the joint venture with Fox. So 1) Ultimately they will get 51% of the subscriber/carriage fees 2) They will get 51% of the advertising revenue. 3) the BTN deal with Fox includes a traditional rights fee from Fox for the right to broadcast games. This part of the deal is exactly like the traditional Big Ten deals with ABC/ESPN and the CBS basketball deal. This is also the widely reported $2.8 billion/25 year aspect of the deal. the $2.8 billion is what Fox is paying for the rights (and it may include some of the advertising revenue as well). Through at least 2009-2010, part 3 is also where the all of the $65 million+ a year revenue the conference got from the Big Ten was coming from.

Once Fox's initial investment in the BTN is recouped, the conference will start seeing it's share of the 51% profit. At that point a significant chunk of the revenue from the network will be coming from that $1/subscriber/month fee will represent a significant chunk of the revenue. But you still have the advertising revenue and the traditional rights fee components, which are more tied into how may people are predicted to/actually are watching.

 

[Dryden]

At some level, and especially when we are talking about some of those schools back East the issue is related though. If you are Rutgers, a 40 mile drive from Times Square, and a New York metro area of 19 million people and you can't fill your 52,000 seat stadium on a consistent basis... I have little faith that you'll deliver the New York Metro Area. The NY area is a little different, because you have a built up Big Ten alumni base already there, but I still think counting tv sets can be a little simplistic.

The issue is that the carriage agreements between the BTN and the cable operators stipulate that the cable co must move to the upper-tier pricing and place the channel in basic-expanded in the states where a Big Ten member institution resides.

Right now the Big Ten gets a couple cents from the people in NY who order the premium digital package that includes BTN. Add Syracuse, and in a year TWC make BTN .88 cents for every single person that lives in the state of New York, even if they never watch one second of the channel.

This is why so many people think Syracuse & Rutgers joining the Big Ten is a fait accompli.