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Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

Which Teams Should the Big Ten Add? (please limit to four selections)

  • Boston College

    Votes: 32 10.2%
  • Cincinnati

    Votes: 19 6.1%
  • Connecticut

    Votes: 6 1.9%
  • Duke

    Votes: 21 6.7%
  • Georgia Tech

    Votes: 55 17.6%
  • Kansas

    Votes: 46 14.7%
  • Maryland

    Votes: 67 21.4%
  • Missouri

    Votes: 90 28.8%
  • North Carolina

    Votes: 39 12.5%
  • Notre Dame

    Votes: 209 66.8%
  • Oklahoma

    Votes: 78 24.9%
  • Pittsburgh

    Votes: 45 14.4%
  • Rutgers

    Votes: 40 12.8%
  • Syracuse

    Votes: 18 5.8%
  • Texas

    Votes: 121 38.7%
  • Vanderbilt

    Votes: 15 4.8%
  • Virginia

    Votes: 47 15.0%
  • Virginia Tech

    Votes: 62 19.8%
  • Stay at 12 teams and don't expand

    Votes: 27 8.6%
  • Add some other school(s) not listed

    Votes: 25 8.0%

  • Total voters
    313
BB73;1694968; said:
And if the Big 16 ends up with Mizzou/Nebraska/Pitt/Syracuse/Rutgers - I could still live with that.

If you don't mind explaining; then I'd love to ask, "Why?" Is it a matter of having to accept the inevitable or do you actually like that combination?

To me, there's nothing elite about that grouping. I'm no saying that all five are poor choices, but nothing screams, "Hell Yeah!" to me. I do realize that plugging into regions is good; however, we always much fun of the Big Least. Do we really want to pull in 37.5% of their conference? I'm actually fine with adding Big 12 teams for both personal and (what I would consider) logical reasons.

I'm just having a hard time getting excited about anything from the Big East.
 
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muffler dragon;1694993; said:
If you don't mind explaining; then I'd love to ask, "Why?" Is it a matter of having to accept the inevitable or do you actually like that combination?

To me, there's nothing elite about that grouping. I'm no saying that all five are poor choices, but nothing screams, "Hell Yeah!" to me. I do realize that plugging into regions is good; however, we always much fun of the Big Least. Do we really want to pull in 37.5% of their conference? I'm actually fine with adding Big 12 teams for both personal and (what I would consider) logical reasons.

I'm just having a hard time getting excited about anything from the Big East.


Nebraska (if they pass muster academically) would be a very good addition in football (and their fans are as good a group as anybody's), and Syracuse and Pitt would be solid additions in basketball. Missouri and Rutgers expand the TV markets into STL, KC, and NY/NJ.

But it's more about being proactive and not being left behind in terms of market share and prestige overall if a few 16-team conferences come into being. And my thought process is really about taking the best shot at getting Texas and/or ND at the start of the shakeout period, although if it doesn't work those 5 all add something worthwhile.
 
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BB73;1695002; said:
Nebraska (if they pass muster academically) would be a very good addition in football (and their fans are as good a group as anybody's), and Syracuse and Pitt would be solid additions in basketball. Missouri and Rutgers expand the TV markets into STL, KC, and NY/NJ.

But it's more about being proactive and not being left behind in terms of market share and prestige overall if a few 16-team conferences come into being. And my thought process is really about taking the best shot at getting Texas and/or ND at the start of the shakeout period, although if it doesn't work those 5 all add something worthwhile.
I agree, from a purely football standpoint, and looking at the long-term, Nebraska's first-rate. Just as good as Texas, or anyone else, in that particular respect. In other respects, not so much. Rutgers is not pulling its weight in any respect; Pitt, Syracuse, and Missouri are barely doing so (Pitt and Syracuse are doing so in basketball, nowhere else). And don't kid yourself into thinking that Rutgers or Syracuse is going to turn NYC into BigTen (or BigSixteen) central. They don't remotely have that heft, even if NYC were amenable to such a turn, which it isn't. Don't get me wrong, any of these schools would be ok, but from my perspective "ok" is not what we're looking for. There's too much lost to be traded out for merely "ok".
 
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I picture Mr. T calling out Rocky in "Rocky III" for some reason and Mickey telling Rocky that his opponents were bums.

Purdue and Michigan State?

Rivals.com College Football - Mailbag: Is Notre Dame afraid of the Big Ten?

If you take three cycles of recruiting classes [the past 12 seasons], Notre Dame is 18-19 in its games against Big Ten schools. Do you believe that the administration in South Bend may be afraid that record may stay the same or even get worse if they joined the conference? Are they afraid of being a middle-of-the-pack team in the Big Ten?
Phillip in Placentia, Cal.

Do you really think a team that plays USC every season is scared of facing the likes of Indiana, Northwestern, Illinois and Minnesota? I'd maintain that Notre Dame's chances for a bowl appearance actually would be enhanced by joining the Big Ten.

While it's true Notre Dame is 18-19 in 37 games against Big Ten teams in that span you referenced, 34 of those games were against Michigan, Michigan State and Purdue -- teams that the Irish play almost every year. If Notre Dame is frightened by the Big Ten, why continue scheduling Big Ten teams?

cont...
 
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old man...

Someone should shut this old man up and tell him that he is right, his musings are not going to drive the Big 10's actions. We may very well end up with his scenario... but it won't be because of him.

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. (AP) -- If it were up to him, Penn State coach Joe Paterno would expand the Big Ten by three members to 14, adding two schools from the east and one from the west.

Joe Paterno favors Big Ten expanding from 11 to 14 - NCAA Football - SI.com
 
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BB73;1694968; said:
Decide that the league is going to 16. Accept 3 of these teams: Rutgers/Syracuse/Mizzou/Nebraska, and announce it publicly, but say that the Big Ten isn't yet done expanding. Tell Texas and ND that there are 2 spots left, but that they have 30 days to decide if they want to be a part of the new Big-16 (and trademark that name now, before it gets grabbed). Otherwise the last 2 spots will go to Pitt and the other team from the 4 mentioned above.

Well done. My change here would be to accept 2 schools, the best potential school from the Big East and one from the Big 12, then announce that we're not done expanding and we're going to 16 teams. If that happens, we might actually get teams coming TO Delany asking to be included in those plans. Taking a team from both conference will cause each team in those conferences to look hard at the future of their conference and their program.

And with 3 teams to potentially add, go hard after Texas and Texas A&M, and give ND an ultimatum that this is their final chance to get in.

I would consider this to be a HIGHLY successful expansion:
-The best potential school from the Big East
-Texas
-Texas A&M
-Notre Dame
-Mizzou/Nebraska/Kansas

or

--4 out of 5 would be AAU institutions (ND isn't)
--4 (potential) land grant colleges (Rutgers, Mizzou, Nebraska, Texas A&M)
--An elite football program (Texas) and many teams with great football tradition/perennially ranked teams (ND, Nebraska, Pitt, Syracuse, Texas A&M)
--2 (potential) elite basketball programs (Syracuse & Kansas), and all but Nebraska would be considered a good/very good b-ball program
 
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jlb1705;1693359; said:
Yawn.

The billboards around here have changed from stuff like "Ohio's BCS Team" to things like "Represent the C (please buy tickets)".

Why buy tickets? In two years they'll be back to giving them away for every $50 worth of groceries you buy at Kroger's -- for $100 they'll throw in a pair of Bengals ducats too.
 
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Gatorubet;1696235; said:
Delaney kept insisting Texas get rid of their on-campus statues of Confederate Generals. Texas kept insisting the Big-10 get rid of Delaney.

Funny, I mentioned this way back when expansion and Texas first surfaced. The Quad isn't that big, but it is in the center of the university and damned if there aren't about 16 confederate generals on pedestals including one of the worst; Braxton Bragg. I can imagine that it would create a huge stir in Big 10 academic circles once word got out -- along with pics.
 
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The BIG Ten Wikepedia page says that UT wanted to join the PAC-10 (first) and then the Big 10 back in the 90s. This parallels their current approach according to the "insiders" cited by Piney.

The University of Texas also approached and entered into discussions with the Big Ten in the 1990s. UT was keen to upgrade its academic profile and depart the SWC and desperate to seek affiliation with the Pac 10.
"Texas wanted desperately the academic patina that the Pac 10 yielded," recalls UT President Robert Berdahl,[12] who went on to serve as chancellor at Pac-10 member California-Berkeley. "To be associated with UCLA, Stanford and Cal in academics was very desirable."
Still, expansion in the Pac-10 depended on unanimous approval of the member schools. And Stanford, which had long battled UT in athletics as well as academics[13], objected. For UT, the way west never materialized.
UT next approached the Big Ten. Having added Penn State in 1990, the Big Ten was now made of universities that, in the view of UT officials, matched UT's profile ? large state schools with strong academic reputations. Berdahl liked the fact that all 11 conference members belonged to the American Association of Universities.
Yet, distance remained a disadvantage. Iowa, the closest Big Ten school to Austin, was 856 miles away.
But after adding Penn State in 1990, Big Ten officials had put a four-year moratorium on expansion. Although admitting interest, Big Ten bosses ultimately rejected UT's overtures.
Around 1993, it was also explored by the league to add Kansas, Missouri, and Rutgers, or other potential schools to create a 14-team league with two divisions.[14] These talks died when the Big 8 Conference merged with former Southwest Conference members to create the Big 12.
Other possible universities that have gained favor for any possible expansion for the 12th spot in the conference include:

This article cites the distance factor, but there are several reasons why I'm not buying it.

  1. In the 90s, UT wanted in to the PAC 10, where there are bigger distance issues.
  2. If we add Nebraska and/or Missouri and split into two divisions to where UT doesn't travel that often to the most eastern schools, the distance issues are MUCH less than with the PAC 10.
  3. The primary issue with distance is with the non-revenue sports. In lacrosse, Ohio State is in a conference with at least 2 schools from Colorado.
  4. Money. The added revenue, regardless of revenue sharing scheme, far outweighs extra travel for the entire athletic department, the band, the cheerleaders and Bevo.
That last point begs the PAC 10 question. If, as Piney reports, UT is interested in the PAC 10 because they believe that they will have a better chance of getting a better-than-even share of the pie in that conference; how will the other conference members react? While some might think that a smaller portion of a bigger pie might still be bigger; some of the Northern California schools are well known for having a more "from each according to their..." attitude. If Stanford was able to veto adding UT in the 90s, do they still have that power now?

Earlier in the thread I compared the chances of Texas joining the Big 10 to something about the aerodynamics of porcine farm animals. Then I learned the facts. The more I hear that there is no interest on either side; the more I think this merger remains a distinct possibility.
 
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cincibuck;1696238; said:
Mizzou = St. Louis/Kansas City (MO) TV market. Nebraska = Omaha TV market. Compare.

w/o Texas there's not much reason to go after Nebraska.

Frank the Tank had an interesting blog a couple of weeks ago from a TV insider stating that the BTN is starting to generate more revenue through advertising than subscriptions. (Thus the real reason driving the expansion to 16 teams to load up on live programming to drive up advertising rates)

IF that is true, then that gives Nebraska a much better chance since they do generate higher ratings compared to Mizzou.
 
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Oregonbuck;1696253; said:
I know what your point is, but Braxton Bragg must not be too bad if the United States has the 82nd Airborne located at a base named after the guy.

1919 - 1939

Please note that the base in question is located in North Carolina. Braxton's motto must have been "day late and a dollar short," when measured by his performance at Shiloh and throughout the Western Campaign.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braxton_Bragg
 
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