Big Ten and other Conference Expansion

[Jaxbuck]

I say screw the rest of the conference. If overweighted divisions happen, then they happen. I would not be even remotely ok with OSU and scUM being in separate divisions.

1) what if the over weighted division worked against OSU?
2) As long as its a locked in annual game whats the problem with them being in separate divisions?

Picture a day in the future when scUM is good again and the B10 put OSU, UM, PSU amd MSU all in the same division to keep rivalries. Meanwhile Texas gets to beat on who, Iowa, Wisky and whoever the hell else they may bring along? Fuck that shit.

 

[MaliBuckeye]

1) what if the over weighted division worked against OSU?
2) As long as its a locked in annual game whats the problem with them being in separate divisions?

Picture a day in the future when scUM is good again and the B10 put OSU, UM, PSU amd MSU all in the same division to keep rivalries. Meanwhile Texas gets to beat on who, Iowa, Wisky and whoever the hell else they may bring along? Fuck that shit.

I agree, but there was a time when people were pissed that Georgia, Tennessee, and Florida were in the same division- Arkansas, LSU, Alabama, and Auburn hadn't exactly risen to the occasion the way they have today.

Look also at the Big 12- OU, UT, and aTm (back in the day) in a loaded south with Nebraska and no one in the North.

"Stacked" divisions are going to happen as programs rise and fall, I think.

 

[MU-Buck]

1) what if the over weighted division worked against OSU?
2) As long as its a locked in annual game whats the problem with them being in separate divisions?

Picture a day in the future when scUM is good again and the B10 put OSU, UM, PSU amd MSU all in the same division to keep rivalries. Meanwhile Texas gets to beat on who, Iowa, Wisky and whoever the hell else they may bring along? Fuck that shit.

I do not want to see Michigan and tOSU playing a rematch game one week after The Game... What if both teams came into The Game already knowing they were playing in the CCG the next week? Who cares if Duke beats UNC early in the season, UNC has another chance to even the yearly series later on. We should play Mich once and only once (except for a NC rematch, that would have been awesome) in order to not dilute the rivalry.

Iowa and Wisky have been VERY good here in the recent past. If tOSU, UM, PSU and MSU were to be in the same division next year with Iowa, Wisky and Texas in the other, I would have to think that the Texas division would be the tougher division. Also, until UM builds back up, it could remain that way.

By the way, if I had to pick 3 teams to make a 14 team conference (and by the way I am a HUGE fan of the 14 team 10 state, Big Ten conference idea) I would pick ND, Nebraska and the University of Toronto. I know, ND's not a member of the AAU (but I think if they tried they could be) but they would be a huge get. Nebraska's an AAU member but some think an academic casulty; however, they have an extremely LOYAL and football loving following. Toronto's an AAU member, a in Newsweek's and Times' top 30 global university and would bring the ENTIRE Canada football viewing audience with them (I admit though, all conference players would need a passport). These teams would help keep the Big Ten a midwestern conference, which I love. I think if we were to add Texas, then why not USC and Florida too? Keep the Big Ten conference in the Midwest!!!!!

 

[Jaxbuck]

I agree, but there was a time when people were pissed that Georgia, Tennessee, and Florida were in the same division- Arkansas, LSU, Alabama, and Auburn hadn't exactly risen to the occasion the way they have today.

Look also at the Big 12- OU, UT, and aTm (back in the day) in a loaded south with Nebraska and no one in the North.

"Stacked" divisions are going to happen as programs rise and fall, I think.

I agree. You just need to go be their historical level of competency and do the best you can.

If Texas came with say, Nebraska I could live with that being the anchor of 1 division while I guess OSU and UM would be the other. Given that both UM and Nebraska are kind of sucking eggs lately it evens out.

The next tier down in my mind is Wisky, PSU, MSU, Iowa, T A&M

Next tier would be the Missouri, Illinois, Purdue, Minny, NU, caliber teams

You'll always have IU sucking ass at the bottom with others listed above fluctuating from time to time.

That's just my rough grouping of some random teams as they come to me from a historical or name value. Not just as they are right now or the past 5 years.

The non college example I can think of regarding a fucked up alignment to keep a rivalry is the AFC.

Instead of having the geographically sensible:
AFC East: Baltimore, NE, NYJ, Buffalo
AFC North: Pitt, Cleve, Cincy, Indy
AFC South: Miami, Jax, Tenn, Houston

They fucked it all up to keep Buffalo and Miami together for a rivalry that no one gives a fuck about because both teams have sucked ass for a long time. The comparison isn't in the dolphin/bills rivalry compared to The Game, its in fucking up divisions in the long run for a rivalry.

 

[Jaxbuck]

I do not want to see Michigan and tOSU playing a rematch game one week after The Game... What if both teams came into The Game already knowing they were playing in the CCG the next week?

What if they spend every ounce of physical and emotional energy they have to win The Game and have to turn around the next week and play another game for the B10 championship facing some team that could very well have had a significantly easier path to getting there in the first place and will be sky high to knock them off?

As soon as we go to a 2 division set up The Game as we knew it is over. Its just a matter of picking the lesser of two evils from then on and imo its more important to get the divisions right.

 

[Gatorubet]

I do not want to see Michigan and tOSU playing a rematch game one week after The Game... What if both teams came into The Game already knowing they were playing in the CCG the next week? We should play Mich once and only once (except for a NC rematch, that would have been awesome) in order to not dilute the rivalry.

Yes, I know how you feel about the Debacle, and yes, you might have preferred playing Mich for the NC. But there is an evil, unthinkable, possibility that did not occur. That an overconfident team lead by a less than optimal rubber chicken circuit enduring Heisman winner walked into a game and had to spend eternity as having lost a NC to their rivals after beating them already.

The FSU fans like to moan about the 1996 "Do-over" and the "Mulligan Championship" - and they can all they want. Fact is, we beat a bitter rival (admittedly not THE rival - the Poodles. Many younger FSU fans think that we are their main Rival ...but I digress) ) for the NC. But even with our first MNC and the joy I felt, the fact that we'd previously lost to them when we were banged up in December bothered me. It is better to not redo the match if at all possible.

If the Skunkbears had accomplished that - a MNC on a redo game - the Florida experience would have been like a warm handshake from a friend. And while you will never admit to that possibility, if you look at the level of preparedness exhibited by the Buckeyes in the game, you have to at least consider the possibility that a land mine was avoided that could have pained your heart and damaged your soul forever - or at least far, far worse than what came to pass.

If you do go to divisions you HAVE TO be in the same division as scUM. HAVE TO. Having to beat them ( or having them beat you) again a week later in a conference CG is not a situation that should ever have - even as a remote statistical possibility.

It would detract from my enjoyment of The Game and the significance of the win. I can only imagine how it would affect y'alls' opinion, knowing that the win in The Game is just a warm up for a championship rematch. It would raise the entirely unthinkable spector of a situation where players who were less than 100% were held out (or played sparingly) in The Game in order to better ensure a win in the championship game two weeks later.

Un-f-ing-thinkable.

Don't ever let them do that to you.

 

[jwinslow]

It would detract from my enjoyment of The Game and the significance of the win. I can only imagine how it would affect y'alls' opinion, knowing that the win in The Game is just a warm up for a championship rematch. It would raise the entirely unthinkable spector of a situation where players who were less than 100% were held out (or played sparingly) in The Game in order to better ensure a win in the championship game two weeks later.

Especially since a potential shift to 4 super-conferences could lead to a playoff where losing the first installment wouldn't actually keep you out of the title chase.

 

[Dryden]

Look also at the Big 12- OU, UT, and aTm (back in the day) in a loaded south with Nebraska and no one in the North.

On the contrary, Nebraska, Kansas St and Colorado made a loaded North when the Big 12 was formed. In the first seven years of the Big 12 the champion of the North was 7-1 or 8-0 within the conference six times, while the South produced a 6-2 champ four times. OU was miserable until Bob Stoops arrived and won a title pretty much out of the blue in 2000, and Texas was being driven into the ground by John Mackovic until Mack Brown was brought in in '98 to rescue the program.

In '97, for example, Texas was 4-7 and Oklahoma went 4-8. That same year produced the 13-0 national champ Nebraska squad that dismantled the Peyton Manning/Jamal Lewis Tennessee team in the Orange Bowl, while Kansas St went 11-1 (losing only to Nebraska) and popping Donovan McNabb's Syracuse team in the Fiesta Bowl. The Big 12 North was supposed to be great.

You can't craft conference alignments on teams' recent performances, because things change quickly. The Big 12 and SEC have all seen power shifts from one division to the other over the past decade, and things certainly haven't worked out as intended in the ACC.

Winning follows good coaches, so the strength of a division is only as good as the coaches of the teams in it.

 

[MaliBuckeye]

The non college example I can think of regarding a fucked up alignment to keep a rivalry is the AFC.

Instead of having the geographically sensible:
AFC East: Baltimore, NE, NYJ, Buffalo
AFC North: Pitt, Cleve, Cincy, Indy
AFC South: Miami, Jax, Tenn, Houston

They fucked it all up to keep Buffalo and Miami together for a rivalry that no one gives a fuck about because both teams have sucked ass for a long time. The comparison isn't in the dolphin/bills rivalry compared to The Game, its in fucking up divisions in the long run for a rivalry.

OT, but I feel the same way about the NFC. Dallas is in the east because of the rivalry with "The Redskins"- a "Cowboys and Indians" fantasy that stopped being relevant in the 90s and stopped being "politically correct" before that.

Put Carolina in the East, Dallas in the South, and call it a day.

 

[Buckeye513]

OT, but I feel the same way about the NFC. Dallas is in the east because of the rivalry with "The Redskins"- a "Cowboys and Indians" fantasy that stopped being relevant in the 90s and stopped being "politically correct" before that.

Put Carolina in the East, Dallas in the South, and call it a day.

Hmm, no.

 

[Woody1968]

OT, but I feel the same way about the NFC. Dallas is in the east because of the rivalry with "The Redskins"- a "Cowboys and Indians" fantasy that stopped being relevant in the 90s and stopped being "politically correct" before that.

Put Carolina in the East, Dallas in the South, and call it a day.

Reminds me of MLB before realignment to three divisions per league, when Cincinnati was in the West.

 

[jlb1705]

OT, but I feel the same way about the NFC. Dallas is in the east because of the rivalry with "The Redskins"- a "Cowboys and Indians" fantasy that stopped being relevant in the 90s and stopped being "politically correct" before that.

That's only partially right. Dallas is also in the East because Jerry Jones knows that if his team is going to continue to enjoy being perceived as "America's Team" and reap the attention and revenue that comes with that, he needs to have a presence on the east coast. Being on TV for divisional games in New York, Philadelphia and Washington, D.C. does that. When only broadcast regionally, he's already hitting the biggest east coast markets. Plus, those games are more likely to be nationally televised. Playing divisional games against Tampa, Atlanta and New Orleans does not do that.

I'm not defending it, but that's the reason what's happening.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Reminds me of MLB before realignment to three divisions per league, when Cincinnati was in the West.

ahh the good old days.

Cinci, Atlanta, Houston and the 3 California teams were the West

Chicago, St Louis, Pittsburgh, Expos, Phillies and Mets in the east.

Now those were some truly fucked up divisions.

 

[BB73]

CFN's Matthew Smith looks at possibillities for the Pac Ten.

Best situation from that conference's point of view: Colorado and Texas.

The Texas-aTm combination due to the Texas state legislature; the fact that Utah is more likely than BYU; the unlikelihood of Boise St and TCU due to academic factors; the chance of a 14 or 16-team league and the option of dumping Washington State are all discussed.

CFN

 

[ScriptOhio]

Gorman: Pitt to Big Ten would be bad move

There is a fundamental flaw in the foundation of the Big East Conference, and it's not only because of the split of eight football and 16 basketball teams that has made the league a scheduling nightmare.
What has allowed the Big East to become susceptible to another membership raid by a rival BCS conference is its insistence on maintaining its original mission of being the nation's most powerful basketball league.
Moreover, the one school that probably has no business belonging to the 21st century Big East is the same place where the conference was conceived. Providence has provided a pipeline for Big East commissioners, from David Gavitt and Mike Tranghese to current czar John Marinatto.

Entire article: Gorman: Pitt to Big Ten would be bad move - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

I don't want Pittsburgh!!!