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Barry Bonds (Juiced Merge)

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The MLBPA, the owners, most of the media, and the majority of the fans were just fine with a "don't ask, don't tell" for years. It created a culture where it became normative or in the eyes of some "necessary" to compete. It doesn't excuse the players, but the owners/media/fans need to accept some responsibility as well instead of demonizing certain players who got caught. Bonds is a bag of shit, but if you are driven to be the "best" and others are juicing and no one is doing a damned thing about it... it's easy to judge.
 
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MuckFich06;1399519; said:
The MLBPA, the owners, most of the media, and the majority of the fans were just fine with a "don't ask, don't tell" for years. It created a culture where it became normative or in the eyes of some "necessary" to compete. It doesn't excuse the players, but the owners/media/fans need to accept some responsibility as well instead of demonizing certain players who got caught. Bonds is a bag of shit, but if you are driven to be the "best" and others are juicing and no one is doing a damned thing about it... it's easy to judge.
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There's a good deal of truth to that, but it doesn't really resolve the issue. And what do you say to the guy who put up very good, but not record-shattering, numbers au naturale? "Hey, sorry you're not HOF material because Chemical Ali over here was blasting 50+ steroid-fueled dingers a year while you were just hitting 35." MLB has some serious problems, and rampant steroid use isn't the only one, but I'm not sure that blaming the fans and telling them there's no room to judge is the best remedy. If you can't adversely judge taking the easy way out, then pretty much by definition, you also can't reward sticking to the straight and narrow.

What would resolve the issue? Judge what has happened, but back up your judgement by taking about a 5 year hiatus from following MLB until the league sorts some of this crap out. If you're not willing to do that, at least accept in your own mind that you're basically a pro-wrestling fan at this point.
 
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zincfinger;1399578; said:
There's a good deal of truth to that, but it doesn't really resolve the issue. And what do you say to the guy who put up very good, but not record-shattering, numbers au naturale? "Hey, sorry you're not HOF material because Chemical Ali over here was blasting 50+ steroid-fueled dingers a year while you were just hitting 35." MLB has some serious problems, and rampant steroid use isn't the only one, but I'm not sure that blaming the fans and telling them there's no room to judge is the best remedy. If you can't adversely judge taking the easy way out, then pretty much by definition, you also can't reward sticking to the straight and narrow.

What would resolve the issue? Judge what has happened, but back up your judgement by taking about a 5 year hiatus from following MLB until the league sorts some of this crap out. If you're not willing to do that, at least accept in your own mind that you're basically a pro-wrestling fan at this point.
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Pretty much for that decade or so, the "pro-wrestling" analogy fits. Testing is in place now and I hope it cleans things up. I don't think you can pick and choose who to leave out. Too many were complicit and even if they weren't doing it themselves, they weren't doing anything about their teammates that were. Yeah, it sucks.
 
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MuckFich06;1399519; said:
The MLBPA, the owners, most of the media, and the majority of the fans were just fine with a "don't ask, don't tell" for years. It created a culture where it became normative or in the eyes of some "necessary" to compete. It doesn't excuse the players, but the owners/media/fans need to accept some responsibility as well instead of demonizing certain players who got caught. Bonds is a bag of shit, but if you are driven to be the "best" and others are juicing and no one is doing a damned thing about it... it's easy to judge.
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Yep. If it was really about the alleged purity of the game people would hate Sosa and McGwire as much as they hate Bonds. Personally I never gave a shit whether someone "juiced" or not, still don't and probably never will. The reason people get fired up about Barry Bonds is because he's not a likable person in the first place.

The MLB record book was "tainted" long before steroids and HGH came along, and the HOF relies on votes from sportswriters, who would never allow personal feelings to influence their votes. To take any of this seriously is misplaced energy in my eyes. A lot of time, energy, and tax dollars have been spent on this case, and at the end of the day it doesn't mean anything of any real importance, whatsoever.
 
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Jake;1399659; said:
Yep. If it was really about the alleged purity of the game people would hate Sosa and McGwire as much as they hate Bonds. Personally I never gave a shit whether someone "juiced" or not, still don't and probably never will. The reason people get fired up about Barry Bonds is because he's not a likable person in the first place.

The MLB record book was "tainted" long before steroids and HGH came along, and the HOF relies on votes from sportswriters, who would never allow personal feelings to influence their votes. To take any of this seriously is misplaced energy in my eyes. A lot of time, energy, and tax dollars have been spent on this case, and at the end of the day it doesn't mean anything of any real importance, whatsoever.
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Agreed. And, fuck Barry Bonds. Ever read his deposition to the grand jury? Hilarious. He is a prick of the highest order. I did find one part of his testimony telling, he flat out admitted that he was taking/using the "cream" and the "clear" in the open. Nobody in the locker room or on the training staff questioned him about it. He claims he didn't know what it was. BS, but I do believe that he was using that stuff openly and nobody cared. Bad culture leads to bad behavior. Doesn't excuse it but make rationalization a hell of a lot easier.
 
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Getting a face lift doesn't break the law.

"Easy to judge?"

Bullshit, from the face of things it's hard to expect people to live up to standards. Apparently it's easier to just shrug your shoulders and say it's no big deal to break the law.

Easy to judge? No. It's easy to look the other way.

Fuck Barry Bonds, Fuck Alex Rodriguez. Fuck Mark McGwire. Fuck every single player who has juiced. Fuck Selig & the Union for covering it up. Fuck MLB, and fuck every single person who defends any of them.
 
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Judge in Barry Bonds' rules pieces of evidence inadmissible - ESPN

Unless the tight-lipped personal trainer for Barry Bonds suddenly decides to testify in the seven-time MVP's upcoming perjury trial, significant pieces of evidence in the prosecution's case will not be admitted, Judge Susan Illston ruled late Thursday.
Illston ordered that lab results -- including three alleged positive steroid tests from 2000 and 2001 -- drug ledgers and doping calendars will not be admitted as evidence unless Greg Anderson testifies that the material relates to Bonds.
 
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NFBuck;1690038; said:
Barry Bonds has disappeared into own world -- and nobody cares - Jeff Pearlman - SI.com

:slappy:
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stab-in-back.jpg


:slappy:
 
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Gatorubet;1906799; said:
Barry Bonds guilty of obstruction of justice, jury hung on others



http://www.nola.com/zephyrs/index.ssf/2011/04/barry_bonds_jury_reaches_verdi.html
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Halle-freakin-lujah! :roll1:

How many taxpayer dollars were wasted on this useless conviction in a trial that was nothing more than a pissed off federal prosecutor trying to justify his existence?

Bonds is an arrogant ass and he used steroids to help him set HR records. We didn't need an investigation spanning several years and a trial to tell us those things.
 
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Jake;1906837; said:
Halle-freakin-lujah! :roll1:

How many taxpayer dollars were wasted on this useless conviction in a trial that was nothing more than a pissed off federal prosecutor trying to justify his existence?

Bonds is an arrogant ass and he used steroids to help him set HR records. We didn't need an investigation spanning several years and a trial to tell us those things.
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This is about perjury, not steroids. I have no problem prosecuting people that commit perjury in front of grand juries. If you don't, why bother? With a high profile person, it was a great opportunity to say "if you lie to a grand jury, you can go to jail."
 
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