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ArtilleryBuck
Hall of Fame
So, which position would you consider to be the Queen and which is the King?
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Hard to say, I guess it could change... Queen being the most versitle player - the one guy who can hurt you in more was than one. The king, I guess, should be the QB since he requires the protection...
The chess metaphor is more a coaching metaphor than a players metaphor, I guess.
Bay, I was just giving you a little lip. I know what you're meaning when you say metaphor.
And, of course, Chess has also been considered a 'war game" to the extent that strategery and finding opponants weaknesses are concerned.
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tibor75
Banned
well said.
I think that most professional athletes probably showed more courage growing up (especially if they were in the inner city or if they came from a poor family) then anything they will ever do on the professional field.
to say that any player shows courage by simply playing with an injury is a laughable concept.
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No, Tibor, it is a use of the word that fits the definition. And the fact that you insult everyone who disagrees with your point of view doesn't make you any more right. It just says that you don't really know how to present a logical argument to support your point of view.
Again, re-read the definition of courage that starts the thread and logically and without derogating others, for just once in your life, present us with a meaningful argument to support your point of view.
Then, having said that, it would take some courage to do that, wouldn't it, given the argument you might make?
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I guess Woody Hayes was a dumbass, then. Moron. Your blatant stupidity never cease to amaze me. Go weave me a carpet...
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Tibs, I must admit I am truly disappointed. I really thought you were about to dazzle us with a compelling argument, given that you had so much time to apply your mind to this simple request.
I guess we can assume from your response that you can't present a meaningul argument that doesn't derogate others? Or would you like to take another stab at that?
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StooGrimson
He drives around, all over the town...
Eh, but how much courage does it actually take to show up and compete as hard as one can in any kind of event? Is the courage of an athlete to show up for competition and play as hard as they can any more courageous than some kid in a school spelling bee who studies hard and does his/her best? No. Is he/she any more courageous than someone who studied their ass off and is taking the CPA exams? No. Are they any more courageous than someone who trained for months and then attempted to set a PR in a marathon/half marathon/ironman? No.
It's basic human nature to want to become better and prove ourselves via competition with others or reaching some type of goal. That's why we tend to look down on lazy bums who choose to do nothing with themselves. The notion that anyone should get credit for working hard and attempting to prove themselves (to others or maybe just to themselves) is laughable at best. Opening yourself up to failure is something everyone does (eh, at least you should be doing) all of the time b/c it's part of growing as a human being. There's no reason to give credit for something you should already be doing.
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tibor75
Banned
well I believe it's been discussed as far as it can be. It's simply idiotic to think that simply playing football is courageous. It's so stupid as to be almost without argument.
If you argue that playing football is courageous, then as Stoo said, where do you draw the line? Then basically everbody who gets up and goes to work and risks failure shows courage. Then basically everybody who I have ever met in my life, except for this one guy who is 31 years old and sits at home all day taking pictures of food and who has never had a real job in his life, is courageous. How retarded is that?
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Thanks Tibs, I think I'm starting to understand your point of view. But I don't think that anyone has argued that simply playing football is courageous.
The point is not that playing football is courageous, but rather that in their actions football players can be courageous. More specifically, the thread posed the following question...
"In my mind, however, Carpenter's behavior shows courage and passion, by definition. To argue about the motivations for his behavior or the situation in which it is displayed as indicators of his courage is to confuse the constructs. The motivation for his behavior is an antecedent (cause or preceding influence) of courage, not the courage. The situation in which courage is expressed also is an antecedent. Courage is as courage does.
In a similar way, it is hard for me to understand how anyone could not see the passion Carpenter displayed for his team on many occasions last year. That passion is displayed in my mind by most of the posters on this board. Many of us are passionate about Ohio State football for life and many for Ohio State sports in general.
What do you think? Can football players show courage and passion in this game? Are players like Carpenter showing courage and passion?"
It seems that you hold the position that they cannot and that people who believe that they can are "stupid". Is that correct?
And, if that is your point of view, at what point can an individual show courage?
For instance, let us take the case of a player believes that his team can not win without his play and that if he continues to play through an injury, he might sustain permanent damage of some kind that would have career limiting consequences, someone mentioned Leftwich but let's even move to a bit more extreme case as I outline. So, the consequences can be fear-inducing. Now, say that person continues to play through incredible pain so that the team can achieve its goals, say a championship.
Would you still argue that the player has not shown courage?
To assist you in this answer, I would again remind you that the definition of courage, according to the American Heritage Dictionary, is... Courage is the "state or quality of mind or spirit that enables one to face danger, fear, or vicissitudes with self-possession, confidence, and resolution; bravery."
I look forward to your reply.
The point is not that playing football is courageous, but rather that in their actions football players can be courageous. More specifically, the thread posed the following question...
"In my mind, however, Carpenter's behavior shows courage and passion, by definition. To argue about the motivations for his behavior or the situation in which it is displayed as indicators of his courage is to confuse the constructs. The motivation for his behavior is an antecedent (cause or preceding influence) of courage, not the courage. The situation in which courage is expressed also is an antecedent. Courage is as courage does.
In a similar way, it is hard for me to understand how anyone could not see the passion Carpenter displayed for his team on many occasions last year. That passion is displayed in my mind by most of the posters on this board. Many of us are passionate about Ohio State football for life and many for Ohio State sports in general.
What do you think? Can football players show courage and passion in this game? Are players like Carpenter showing courage and passion?"
It seems that you hold the position that they cannot and that people who believe that they can are "stupid". Is that correct?
And, if that is your point of view, at what point can an individual show courage?
For instance, let us take the case of a player believes that his team can not win without his play and that if he continues to play through an injury, he might sustain permanent damage of some kind that would have career limiting consequences, someone mentioned Leftwich but let's even move to a bit more extreme case as I outline. So, the consequences can be fear-inducing. Now, say that person continues to play through incredible pain so that the team can achieve its goals, say a championship.
Would you still argue that the player has not shown courage?
To assist you in this answer, I would again remind you that the definition of courage, according to the American Heritage Dictionary, is... Courage is the "state or quality of mind or spirit that enables one to face danger, fear, or vicissitudes with self-possession, confidence, and resolution; bravery."
I look forward to your reply.
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The vast majority of people don't work in jobs where torn ligaments, concussions, and broken bones are common injuries, and paralyzing and even fatal injuries occur...where simply having bruises and being sore as hell is being lucky. Moron.
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StooGrimson
He drives around, all over the town...
Eh, but millions do work at jobs where those types of things are quite common (I see worker's comp claims every day with this type of stuff...lucky me). Are these folks courageous? No. They're just doing their job. Are they courageous if they continue to work while they're hurt or sick? Uh, still no and maybe incredibly stupid depending on the situation.
How the hell is that an insult to anyone who was born after 1900? I think we both know you can do better than that...
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Stoo, I think we're all getting tired of the ad hominen remarks.
This thread focused on a specific question. Could football players show courage and passion in the game. Tibor thinks not and makes an extreme number of unhelpful comments about others who disagree with him.
However, we are still waiting on Tibor to justify his point of view. That is, to argue its merits without the trash talk or building straw men (i.e., inaccurately construing the arguments made by others in order to easily knock these down).
So, no one is saying that football players are always courageous. No one is saying that they are courageous simply because they play the game.
Uh, we're still waiting Tibs...
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