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Applying to Law School...

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buckeyesin07;1974974; said:
My advice to anyone who has been admitted to multiple law schools and is trying to decide which to attend is to go to the highest ranked school.
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Excellent advice. The corollary is: if you have the chance to fuck Donna Shalala or Angelina Jolie, go for Angie.
 
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I feel sorry for the foolish people who take out tens of thousands of dollars in student loans to go to law school. It's a terrible job market. Even the big firms are hiring at pitiful salaries.

And good luck trying to hang a shingle and hoping to scrape by. More and more law grads are going pro is something other than law and those are the smart ones.
 
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Fair number of attorney jobs in the Federal Government (nationwide, not just DC). Right now there is a big hiring push for veterans, so if you have a law degree and you are a veteran, that will bump you up on the Cert list. Suggest you check USAJobs to start. Entry level is usually a GS-11 unless you had previous experience they can translate into a higher grade. Benefits are good, so is quality of life, at least in years when Congress isn't screwing around with the budget (as in, not passing one so you get furloughed).
 
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LoudBuckeyeGirl said:
Fair number of attorney jobs in the Federal Government (nationwide, not just DC). Right now there is a big hiring push for veterans, so if you have a law degree and you are a veteran, that will bump you up on the Cert list. Suggest you check USAJobs to start. Entry level is usually a GS-11 unless you had previous experience they can translate into a higher grade. Benefits are good, so is quality of life, at least in years when Congress isn't screwing around with the budget (as in, not passing one so you get furloughed).
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Just sayin': Federal employment wasn't all that bad. I worked for the Federal Government for 31 years (before retiring at 55 under CSRS). The journeyman level for lawyers (here in Columbus at DSCC) was a GS-13. For an entry level position, that's 1 year at a GS-11, 1 year at a GS-12, and then an automatic promotion (providing that you have a satisfactory performance appraisal, etc.) to a GS-13. Promotions after that would be competitive. Unfortunately now Federal employees are under FERS and (in my opinion) the retirement program isn't nearly as good. Apparently in some areas the journeyman level for an attorney is a GS-14:

https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/384973100
 
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It's basically government legal work or hang a shingle (I just got out of law school as well). Bigger firms require 3-5 years experience usually and send your resume straight to the shredder. Hell, I networked like crazy and made a ton of great connections out here...still not so much as an interview. Luckily I received a large scholarship for law school, so I have very little debt.

What I have done is independent contracting with attorneys I know. Most attorneys are overworked but not to the point they need an associate, so taking on a few projects with a number of attorneys can pay the bills and also get you experience at the same time. And I've developed a good rapport with other attorneys and other firms know my work, so it at least gets a foot in the door. Just an idea but you definitely have to be entrepreneurial and aggressive on seeking out the work.
 
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If you can afford it, go the independent contracting route. It saves the law firm dollars for benefits, and not having work for an associate, and paying the salary for twiddling their thumbs. Maybe do work for multiple firms? Not optimal, but helps build credibility and pays the bills. Probably hard to do if have family, and children. But for a single person, might work well. You'll do the scut work, things that no self respecting JD would do, but hey. In the corporate world, did all the jobs no one else would do, and if do them well, then you have created a niche for yourself, and makes you an 'expert'. Entry work is darn difficult, but it must be done, s*** must be eaten, in order to earn your stripes. Ask RB, he knows, heck, anyone with gray hair on their heads knows, that you gotta pay your dues. See RB's post above. When the firm has a need, and you've done a good job, they'll call you back to tackle the task. Sounds simple, but will take some doing to get you there. Prepare to network, buy a few lunchs, and kiss a bit of a** if you must, but these are all necessary steps to get where you want to be. Good Luck, and persevere, even when it seems d*** difficult.
 
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calibuck said:
If you can afford it, go the independent contracting route. It saves the law firm dollars for benefits, and not having work for an associate, and paying the salary for twiddling their thumbs. Maybe do work for multiple firms? Not optimal, but helps build credibility and pays the bills. Probably hard to do if have family, and children. But for a single person, might work well. You'll do the scut work, things that no self respecting JD would do, but hey. In the corporate world, did all the jobs no one else would do, and if do them well, then you have created a niche for yourself, and makes you an 'expert'. Entry work is darn difficult, but it must be done, s*** must be eaten, in order to earn your stripes. Ask RB, he knows, heck, anyone with gray hair on their heads knows, that you gotta pay your dues. See RB's post above. When the firm has a need, and you've done a good job, they'll call you back to tackle the task. Sounds simple, but will take some doing to get you there. Prepare to network, buy a few lunchs, and kiss a bit of a** if you must, but these are all necessary steps to get where you want to be. Good Luck, and persevere, even when it seems d*** difficult.
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And that is the realization I came too...aside from nepotism or being top in your class, shit is not just sitting there for you no matter how much work you've done or how good you are at it. Like anything else, you usually have to start from the bottom and prove your worth. Often I would bill out for lower than how much I actually worked on a project, just so it was incredibly well done and they see a lower bottom line. I have only been doing this for a few months and it is looking like I am about to get a full time associate spot with a firm I contracted for. Even if not, my name is still getting out there with many referrals and I am getting repeat work.

It seems like an odd route until you realize you have zero overhead (I am talking office space, equipment, malpractice insurance, etc.), you are building experience on your resume, and you are offering a service that almost nobody else is (most law students are out looking for the salaries/benefits from firms). As calibuck said though, it has to make financial sense based on your situation...always look into deferring loans as well or minimizing payments until it results into something more stable.
 
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Fellas.. the major financial services wirehouses (Wells Fargo, etc) have a very sophisticated private wealth management operation... and these teams include attorneys (plus financial advisors, financial planners, various specialists like insurance or whatever, private bankers).. when they are doing a complete financial plan for the ultra wealthy, it includes a lot of legal expertise (trusts, estate, personal and commercial, philanthropic, foundations, etc...) the attorneys on these teams are making BIG bucks and there are a lot of these teams across the country... FWIW ... not sure how you get in play but hey, you gotta do some homework too.. I know it's BIG bucks cuz some of the attorneys that are in there were making BIG bucks before they went to Wells so one can assume it is to make more

These sophisticated wealth teams are the financial services wave so they are only going to grow

Or you could become financial advisors... VERY powerful marketing when you also have a law degree in your quiver... avg age of the advisors in USA is 57 .. so in roughly 8-10 years over 70% of all the investable assets in the USA are going to move to new advisors... and there will be a HUGE shortage of advisors... there is already.. and these guys are making serious bank
 
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Found out today that I am getting a job offer for an actual law job (litigation associate). Bad news, base salary is a cut for me. Good news, very small firm... only two lawyers and the one in charge is in his 70s. They are bringing in a consultant soon to begin succession planning. That means that the other lawyer and myself will have to opportunity to take it over relatively soon. The place does primarily immigration, plus some civil, criminal, and probate. I'm planning to accept because I will get immediate experience doing more than just research and depos. Plus, I can't imagine I'd have the same opportunity elsewhere to be able to co-own an established practice within 5 years.
 
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