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- Thread starter t_BuckeyeScott
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Someone said earlier.. It was Max of Muck, I think, and it may have been on another thread.. that unprotected sex is actually less than 50% likely to result in a pregnancy. That sort of undercuts your sex creates babies argument a bit, though obviously I would have to concede that sex does indeed have the ability to create babies.
It is a solution to terminate life in situations that are ugly. See, the death penalty.
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Extend that beyond people who deserve to die (at least according to some). Poverty, disease, Michigan fanhood. If inhumane circumstances justify murder, why is that limited to before leaving the womb? Shouldn't the same principle apply after birth?
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You're clearly not Chinese.
Which is to say, how we feel about justified or unjustified killing is largely cultural and not universal.
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BIATCHabutuka
out of chaos comes playoffs
Nothing illustrates this better than the classic Mike Judge movie Idiocracy where survival of the fittest really isn't an issue for humans and the logical results after another 500 years of this nonsense.
Sadly about the only way to fix it at this point is to have some alien invade earth with a taste for stupid and fat humans and thin out our herd some. Maybe Duane Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Walker Camacho can nominate Kodos or Kang for his VP?
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Fixing our nation's adoption system and approach to children's services would go a long way in addressing that potential problem. My understanding is that there are no national statistics on how many couples are awaiting to adopt children, but it is estimated to be between 1-2 million. Plus, there are a lot of couples (my wife and I are one example) who would gladly adopt 1-2 children, but who have been discouraged by the system to the point of not even entering it.
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[rant] My brother was adopted at birth and ended up becoming the same useless shitbag that his birth father evidently was, just with parents with enough money to continue to support his uselessness into his late 20's. [/rant]
God bless anyone who wants to adopt, just realize there's a lot more nature than nurture. My brother soured me on the whole thing. I work with a guy that just found out he was adopted at 40 and turned into a productive member of society so I'm sure it isn't all bad.
God bless anyone who wants to adopt, just realize there's a lot more nature than nurture. My brother soured me on the whole thing. I work with a guy that just found out he was adopted at 40 and turned into a productive member of society so I'm sure it isn't all bad.
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Same here - I had a good friend just go through the program and to say it was not fun would be an understatement the size of Charlie Weis's ass.
Maybe we'll look into it again once the kids are grown.
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Hey exhawg, it is very complicated.
I am adopted and I credit my success and strong sense of responsibility to the parents who raised me. On the other hand, my older sister, who was adopted from a different family, turned out very different from me and our three younger siblings. I don't know what accounts for the difference. Genetics could be a factor, but it also could be that my older sister went through considerable instability for the first six years of her life; whereas, I only did for the first two and I don't remember of any of it--the instability was the my adoptive father's wife died when my older sister was five and I was one and half, and then he remarried a year and half later to the only mother I remember. My older sister remembers our first adoptive mother and her being ill and the year and half two of our aunts basically fulfilled the mother role in our lives. I don't remember any of that, except for a particularly close bond I had with one of my aunts as a child.
I am adopted and I credit my success and strong sense of responsibility to the parents who raised me. On the other hand, my older sister, who was adopted from a different family, turned out very different from me and our three younger siblings. I don't know what accounts for the difference. Genetics could be a factor, but it also could be that my older sister went through considerable instability for the first six years of her life; whereas, I only did for the first two and I don't remember of any of it--the instability was the my adoptive father's wife died when my older sister was five and I was one and half, and then he remarried a year and half later to the only mother I remember. My older sister remembers our first adoptive mother and her being ill and the year and half two of our aunts basically fulfilled the mother role in our lives. I don't remember any of that, except for a particularly close bond I had with one of my aunts as a child.
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martinss01
blissfully stupid
define "tough life" please. you talk like the kid might have a speech impediment or something. im saying the kid might have SIGNIFICANT mental and physical disabilities up to and completely including the requirement for 24/7 adult assistance and supervision for life. you interested in signing up for that job? how about maybe just funding the three to four nurses who do sign up out of your paycheck?
understandable, I sometimes have issues conveying my thoughts in an easily understandable format for most. that's my fault. I suspect it is at least partially because I had almost 0 adult supervision throughout my childhood. from about 5 or so on I was pretty much left to my own devices. its my opinion that because of this (and the lack of any real instruction on anything) I tend to see the world, and as a result respond to it, somewhat differently than most. i consider than neither good or bad btw.
I was not trying to relate drivers license to abortion directly. I was trying to tie drivers license to the right to have a child to begin with. ie. we license people to drive, but we literally let anyone fertile breed regardless of the potential (and in some cases likely) consiquences to the child, parents and society. the sad reality is that while nature may say your "good to go". that does not necessarily make you a good candidate to start poppin out babies. in my, oh so probably not humble opinion, all male children should have vasectomies prior to becoming old enough to breed. if you want it undone to have children...? great!! but that has to be ok'd by some regulatory committee to verify you are actually a semi decent candidate for parenthood. im certainly not talking about income, religious inclination or some measure of social popularity. but rather "are you a meth head who kicks puppies and hates grandmothers"? basically saying no to the blatantly obvious no candidates. not to the gray area candidates.
I have to think doing this would cut out the vast majority of abortions before they even happen, if not all with the exception of significant life threatening medical issues.
most laws are not passed retroactively. especially when it comes to illegal activity or anything that might impact the lives of citizens in some negative way.
BINGO!!! many of these children end up on the exact social programs the pro life groups hate and want to see ended. it literally hurts my brain that they don't seem to see the irony arguing against abortion then rail against things like welfare and medicare. where exactly do you think these kids with mental and physical disabilities who can't care for themselves for medical reasons are going exactly? how many autistic kids you think get adopted per year? what about the kids who are born so strung out on drugs because their mother was a user that they have a tracheostomy tube for the first 5 years of their life? oh and yes, I work with someone who fosters a child exactly like that. his odds of getting adopted? 1 in a very... very........ VERY large number im thinking. he's four this year I believe and prior to them, went through something like 7 foster families before he was two because of his medical issues. the current foster family (my coworker's) nicknamed him "boo bear" because he very literally has "boo boo's" on his entire body because of physical abnormalities. the poor kid will never have anything resembling a normal life and will likely require direct medical care of some form until he passes away.
no one deserves that. no one should ever be expected to happily live a life that will directly revolve around paying for the mistakes of others. that poor kid has never once touched an illegal drug. but because his mother did, he will pay the price of her actions for his entire life. and it will without question be a very steep price in quality of life.
technically speaking, im arguing first generation um families
. cut em off before they can do anymore damage to society =Dbut it isn't limited to before leaving the womb. battlefield triage works in a somewhat similar fashion. some lives are allowed to end while others are saved. and it isn't always the most injured who get served first. sadly in many cases they get treated last. not because they don't need it, but because allowing their life to end could mean freeing up medical personnel to save 5 other lives. same goes for civilian medical facilities during overload conditions during an emergency situation.
I would like your post here repeatedly if I could. its so sad how many people in this country adopt from other nations while American children languish. not because they are opposed to adopting an American child. but because they either are afraid of dealing with the adoption process or because they have dealt with the process and ultimately gave up.
sadly I have a very good friend who gave up on adoption about 6 months ago. both her and her husband own a home, make very good money (one was a 911 dispatcher and the other works for the city as well). she quit her job so they would be looked at more favorably. they gave up after 2 years of run around. they were never denied.... just never approved. I tried talking to them about fostering. but they seem very burnt out on the entire process at present. :(
just to clarify my position. I don't want people to have abortions. ever. period.
but I can't argue that there is "no reason" for one to occur. you may not believe this but i actually strongly dislike abortion as a practice personally. but i also strongly believe that "root cause analysis" IS NOT something only the tech field should do. abortions are a symptom of a problem, not the root cause. so sure, you can ban abortions, but that WILL NOT fix the problem. the problem is the creation of an unwanted child by unwilling or incapable parents. you can scream abstinence till your entire face falls off. but your just wasting oxygen. the only real way to end abortion is to stop the pregnancy before it occurs while allowing people to continue to have sex. in many cases, unprotected sex. if you think you can prevent abortion any other way your likely delusional.
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The call for "root cause analysis" reminded me of one of the most powerful articles I've read on abortion:
From the article:
"If you were in charge of a nature preserve and you noticed that the pregnant female mammals were trying to miscarry their pregnancies, eating poisonous plants or injuring themselves, what would you do? Would you think of it as a battle between the pregnant female and her unborn and find ways to help those pregnant animals miscarry? No, of course not. You would immediately think, “Something must be really wrong in this environment.” Something is creating intolerable stress, so much so that animals would rather destroy their own offspring than bring them into the world. You would strive to identify and correct whatever factors were causing this stress in the animals. The same thing goes for the human animal. Abortion gets presented to us as if it’s something women want; both pro-choice and pro-life rhetoric can reinforce that idea. But women do this only if all their other options look worse. It’s supposed to be “her choice,” yet so many women say, “I really didn’t have a choice.”
"Abortion indisputably ends a human life. But this loss is usually set against the woman’s need to have an abortion in order to freely direct her own life. It is a particular cruelty to present abortion as something women want, something they demand, they find liberating. Because nobody wants this. The procedure itself is painful, humiliating, expensive — no woman “wants” to go through it. But once it’s available, it appears to be the logical, reasonable choice. All the complexities can be shoved down that funnel. Yes, abortion solves all the problems; but it solves them inside the woman’s body. And she is expected to keep that pain inside for a lifetime, and be grateful for the gift of abortion. Many years ago I wrote something in an essay about abortion, and I was surprised that the line got picked up and frequently quoted. I’ve seen it in both pro-life and pro-choice contexts, so it appears to be something both sides agree on. I wrote, “No one wants an abortion as she wants an ice cream cone or a Porsche. She wants an abortion as an animal, caught in a trap, wants to gnaw off its own leg.”
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/artic...ade-unborn-children-women-feminism-march-life
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Wrong. Many women view abortion as just another avenue of birth control, not some last-ditch effort to protect her life...
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So let's go out and "retroactively abort" those born with mental illness or disabilities, because the should've been aborted in the first place...you know, to prevent all their suffering they've had to endure because their mother failed to terminate them pre-partum.
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Is it the woman who has the abortion or everyone else around her telling her it is just another avenue? Another part of the article reads:
"We expected that abortion would be rare. What we didn’t realize was that, once abortion becomes available, it becomes the most attractive option for everyone around the pregnant woman. If she has an abortion, it’s like the pregnancy never existed. No one is inconvenienced. It doesn’t cause trouble for the father of the baby, or her boss, or the person in charge of her college scholarship. It won’t embarrass her mom and dad. Abortion is like a funnel; it promises to solve all the problems at once. So there is significant pressure on a woman to choose abortion, rather than adoption or parenting. A woman who had had an abortion told me, “Everyone around me was saying they would ‘be there for me’ if I had the abortion, but no one said they’d ‘be there for me’ if I had the baby.” For everyone around the pregnant woman, abortion looks like the sensible choice. A woman who determines instead to continue an unplanned pregnancy looks like she’s being foolishly stubborn. It’s like she’s taken up some unreasonable hobby. People think: If she would only go off and do this one thing, everything would be fine. But that’s an illusion."
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