A question to all parents on the board

[LoKyBuckeye]

I love the idea of making them sit on the couch and hold hands. A few good points have been brought up... my boys are 2 1/2 and they get spanked if they are bad enough. They are not hit hard at all and the diaper softens the blow even more. One of our boys has a problem with biting... that usually warrents a smack on the mouth (very soft... softer than hitting a mosquito on your arm). He has CP and it effects his arm so it is his way of defending himself against his brother. The only time outs that work are toy time outs. When my boys are fighting over a toy (or remote or phone etc.) the toy is put in time out and no one can play with it. That works very well for us.

 

[MightbeaBuck]

Lets just stick to Parents disciplining their own children with spanking for the purposes of this thread.

You got a decent discussion going here. Are we doing all right? do we pass?

But there's something missing here, .... Oh yeah! Your answer - where do you weigh in on this?

 

[wolfamngstsheep]

Lots of good responses

1. I (plan) on never having children. I can barely manage my own life, let alone be responsible for someone elses.

2. Well, for the last PSYCHO class I will ever take I had to write a paper on the scientific findings of corporal punishment as well as reactions to the idea of spanking as a method of discipline.

3. What I learned from the boring and repetitive scientific journals is that both sides have strong cases.

Anti-Spanking: As some posters pointed out there are just as effective, if not more effective, ways to not only discipline a child but to effectively weed out problematic behavior. Methods that use both reward and punishment have "been proven" to be just as effective as spanking.

Spanking according to some scientific journals I read can cause psychological damage that in their words create “feelings of resentment, anger, humiliation and fear in the child” as well as the possibility of “teaching your child to fear, hate and mistrust you” which “injures the relationship” between the child and parent.

One of the strongest cases for non-corporal punishment is the message the child receives from the parent that uses spanking. By observing the adult resorting to violence to solve the problems in turn they will come to the conclusion that this behavior is acceptable. Children learn through immitation and this is a dangerous message that we send to our children.

Pro-Spanking:
Both sides agree that corporal punishment is very effective. Like one poster said, to teach his daughter not to run out in the parking lot, he used corporal punishment to show her that was unaccetpable. I would bet the next time she got out of the car she didn't go running around.

There has been no scientific evidence that links (NON ABUSIVE) corporal punishment to emmotional or psychological damage to the child. The evidence that had previously made that claim had been thrown out due to the fact that the scientist did not differentiate between corporal punishment and cases of child abuse in her data.

The problem:
My take is that technically the anti-corporal punishment has the stronger argument if we our living in a perfect world. These psychology gurus fail to realize that case studies and the real world are not always equal. For example even the Pro-corporal punishment scientist say it is not what method of discpline you choose for your child its how effectively you administer it. Most of the anti-corporal punishment see "time out" as effective if "administered" correctly. In most cases I think time out is bull krap. People don't have all this time to teach kids in a perfect manner. People have jobs, obligations and deadlines in a fast pace world. The luxury of being some brainiac who can administer parenting techniques that require a ton more effort and training is not feasible for most parents.

Really, spanking is fast food parenting, but I argue that maybe good in a lot of situations. For example let me go back to the girl who got spanked for running around in the parking lot. If another method of discipline is chosen and the point is not made that girl could be ran over and killed the next time that situation occurs. Would it not be in the best intrest of the girl and the family to make sure that lesson of staying close to the parent in the parking lot is properly received? Out of love for the child the parent chooses the swiftest and most fale-proof form of discipline.

I also argue that the "emotional and psychological trauma" is a bit overhyped, if not waranted. Is it such a bad thing that a child has a small amount of fear towards being punished? As posters pointed out, most had a healthy fear of punishment from the father. Life is harsh, it's not all sugar cookies and afternoon naps, I see nothing wrong with a child being afraid to break the rules. If anything you are preparing your child for the harsh realities of life instead of hiding them from your children.

A problem occurs when one tries to define corporal punishment. There is no universal definition. Some scientist define it has two open hand slaps to the butt or other extremities. The line between corporal punishment and child abuse gets blurred because each parent has a different view of what is too much punishment and each child reacts to corpral punishment in different ways. One child might get slapped lightly and look at you and smile while another would ball his or her head off. THe same goes for adults, we all have different thresholds for pain. Scientist trying to do studies on this subject are in a bind because there is no universal form of spanking.

To conclude a extremely wordy post, I lean toward spanking but I think there is no right or wrong answer, I think it is subjective.

 

[Buckeye513]

I'm not speaking as a parent, or an adult for that matter, but it depends on what the child does and how many times he/she does it.
For example: My grandmother lives with my aunt and uncle and she babysits my little cousins Ryan(5) and Hunter (1). I've heard from my grandmother that Ryan has been hitting her in the arms, legs, and back lately and now she has a few bruises. Of course, Ryan's my aunt's baby and she does nothing about it. I love him and everything, but I think he needs to be spanked. He's not a bad kid, he just never listens to alot of things people tell him.

So, I think it depends on what the child does.

 

[Deety]

No kids, but I think in general you save spanking for times when the offense is such that it is imperative that the behavior be fixed immediately for the child's own good.

Running into traffic is a great example. A child may not be able to fully comprehend the danger vehicles represent, but provide the instant (and far less dangerous) consequence of a spanking, and the message is clear. You have created a conditioned gut response that will help to protect the child until a more reasoned response can be developed. Getting the child to understand WHY this was such a big deal as to require a spanking is key, though, so it's important to follow up with a conversation. Also, overuse spanking and it would not be as effective. And of course, there's no excuse for physically harming a child. Even a child will go a long way to avoid the loss of dignity that comes with a spanking.

Of course, if/when I ever have occasion to put this philosophy to use, it'll go straight out the window. That's according to my mother, who became amazingly more intellegent as I got out of my teens. I don't know what she was doing, but wow!

 

[FKAGobucks877]

Another thing to remember here (that wolf alluded to) is that a lot of the time, you simply don't have time for "time out", or anything else. If you're in a restaurant, and the kid is making a scene and misbehaving, or in a parking lot (as was mentioned previously), how do you punish the child without spanking?

And another thing - someone alluded to the fact that he "feared his father" while growing up. I can respect that, you don't want your kids to be scared to death of you. But I do want my kids to fear me, and anyone else in authority over them. A little fear goes a long way. The thing to realize is that the kid isn't actually scared of you, he's scared of what you'll do, or what punishment you'll give out. I sincerely think that there has to be a small measure of fear. With the fear comes respect. I want my children to know that I am boss, their mother is boss, and that disobedience will be dealt with. I also firmly believe that a child, at least a young child, needs to be punished immediately for it to be effective. If a kid misbehaves in the parking lot, so you give her a time out once you get home, she won't even remember what she is being punished for.

 

[NewYorkBuck]

One final point- our society is really getting soft, and this is a great example. All of these people who are shielding their kids from things such as losing a game, failing a test, or getting punished when they deserve it are creating a bunch of monsters. Two of the biggest problems we have in society now are a sense of entitlement for whatever you want (without working for it), and a complete lack of responsibility for your actions. Keeping kids from experiencing hard work, responsibility, discipline, and failure will only make these problems worse in the future.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

There are few things that I have read here that I agree with more. I also agree with the posters above that to a certain degree, your children must fear you. Without any fear, there can be no discipline.

Believe me, I was "disciplined" many times growing up. Although I can tell you I wasnt crazy about it at the time, I can say without question gaining that discipline early in life has to a large degree contributed to my success now. This discipline has played a large role for me in all of the following -

- Having the discipline to study while others party.
- Being able to turn away drugs without fear of peer pressure.
- Being able to stay with a workout routine later in life
- Being able to outwork my competitors
- Having the discipline to save money rather than spend it

The list goes on and on. I am all the more better for it now, thats for sure.

 

[gregorylee]

Timeout is a crock.

I tend to dissagree here Thump, I find timeout sitting drives my kids nuts. Of course this is in a room with the TV off and no entertainment at all (no toys, no talking, no anything).

As for the CP, yes, as I have stated before. Spanking not beating is a usefull tool as stated to teach action v consequence.

 

[AKAK]

Do you think its bad that My pet name for my red headed step child is "Rented Mule?"

Just wondering.

 

[buckeyegrad]

One of our boys has a problem with biting... that usually warrents a smack on the mouth (very soft... softer than hitting a mosquito on your arm).

Here's another solution you could try that my mom used on my older sister who had a biting problem when she was around 6. I don't remember the instance as I was only 2, but I guess she bit me and I started crying. My mom finally had enough after punishing her on numerous occassions, so she bit my sister. My sister never bit anyone again.

 

[scooter1369]

Here's another solution you could try that my mom used on my older sister who had a biting problem when she was around 6. I don't remember the instance as I was only 2, but I guess she bit me and I started crying. My mom finally had enough after punishing her on numerous occassions, so she bit my sister. My sister never bit anyone again.

Exactly how my mom stopped my older brother's biting.

 

[DEBuckeye]

My mom finally had enough after punishing her on numerous occassions, so she bit my sister. My sister never bit anyone again.

My wife tried that on our Golden Retriever when she was a puppy- bit her right on the nose. I didn't make a damn bit of difference, but it looked funny, and the look on the dog's face was priceless.

On a serious note-
Regarding the "fear" points- I also agree. I don't think that I feared my parents, in the strict sense of the word, but I had a very strong respect for what they could do to me (spank, ground, etc.) if I did something wrong. More importantly, I had a very strong respect for them, as my parents, and as the ones "in charge".

One other thing- I knew a few people in high school who actually hit their fathers during arguements. I can't even imagine that. My Dad's not huge, but he's a decent-sized guy at 6'2"/225-ish. Growing up, I never once thought of hitting him, but I also remember thinking that I could never take him in a fight, even when I got bigger than he was.

 

[LoKyBuckeye]

My wife and I have considered that but we are waiting to try it. He has gotten better recently because he is really coming along with his physical therapy and has a lot more range with his hand then he used to.

 

[ArtilleryBuck]

Do you believe in corporal punishment? If yes, why? If no, why?

YES. Because, in life, there is a cause and effect for our actions. Corporal punishment is to the far left of the spectrum where the death penalty is to the right. I believe that I was more civilized graduating from High School (coming from a school system which enforced corporal punishment) than kids who graduate today without it. I received corporal punishment on more than one occasion in school. My experience with it was that it was a pretty effective deterrent, swift justice (allowing for you to keep up with studies), and fairly painful (but temporary).

 

[VprHis]

Thread Revival!

I pulled this one from the wayback machine for a couple reasons.

1. The wife's due date is in early May (it'll be our first--awesome!)
2. I think there are a lot of really good ideas here, for punishments short of spanking
3. I'm trying to sort out in my head, where I think the line between 'you're in trouble' and 'spankable offense' will be.I know this is a few years off, still, but I like to plan ahead.
4. my opinion on spanking? I come from a large, southern family. my parents would turn us loose with the mob, in Tennessee, in the summers. 6 pairs of aunts and uncles, and about as many older cousins, all of whom had spanking privileges. And you know that if anyone has to give you a serious correction, your parents will be told, and you'll get another spanking when you get home. You know what? nobody was emotionally scarred, nobody really misbehaved, and nobody would have gotten upset if the neighbor decided to turn you over a knee, either.

I think that might be a symptom of the change in times, and the rising (nauseating) tide of touchy-feely politally correct psyhcobabble. The difference between discipline and abuse, I think, is simple. discipline is a punishment not delivered in the heat of the moment. it's a reflection of the discipline of the parent, and an example of self-control that the child should learn, and strive to emulate.

...of course, when I got spanked as a kid, I understood none of these things. I only knew that my ass hurt, and I wasn't about to do THAT again... whatever 'that' was to get me spanked.



And for humor value. One time, my dad told me to go cut him a switch. I brought back a fairly pathetic little switch. He spanked me, then told me to go cut a better switch. He then waited an hour for the sting to go away, and THEN gave me the switching.

Lesson in taking things like a man, and the absolute LAST time I ever stepped far enough out of line to earn a spanking.