2026 tOSU Offense Discussion

[Jaxbuck]

Great discussion around the 10 minute mark regarding our offensive approach. How the approach for maximum efficiency is not something we should continue doing.

That is not what they said. They touched on the basic problem when they quoted Day. If you don't execute (get first downs) then going "faster" just hands the ball back to the opponent faster.

The problem was execution, not speed. We just saw two games in a row where the young QB was visibly sped up, confused and making mistakes because of what better defenses were doing to him. Unfortunately, speeding up a guy who's not able to execute already just isn't going to work.

The problem wasn't the speed, it was the young QB's development (along with the OL issues).

Going forward, if you have a skill advantage the best strategy is efficiency. In some tactical situations you can absolutely apply tempo but as a high level approach, efficiency is the best path if you are the more skilled team.

 

[Captain Buckeye]

That is not what they said. They touched on the basic problem when they quoted Day. If you don't execute (get first downs) then going "faster" just hands the ball back to the opponent faster.

The problem was execution, not speed. We just saw two games in a row where the young QB was visibly sped up, confused and making mistakes because of what better defenses were doing to him. Unfortunately, speeding up a guy who's not able to execute already just isn't going to work.

The problem wasn't the speed, it was the young QB's development (along with the OL issues).

Going forward, if you have a skill advantage the best strategy is efficiency. In some tactical situations you can absolutely apply tempo but as a high level approach, efficiency is the best path if you are the more skilled team.

not verbatim but Bill for sure does not think our current approach is good. Went as far to say he believes it’ll start costing us recruits. Doug I suppose didn’t outright go into it as much as Bill did.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on the speed of play. Slower speeds vs these elite teams also means they only have to be efficient a small number of times as well. IMO you want more opportunities for JJ Smith not less. Especially when the defense can handle the stress test.

I’m not talking break neck speed. Just dial it up more early in games. We play start to finish like we have a 3 TD lead. That’s not a good approach if you’re losing by 14.

Bill and Doug also mentioned we just lack explosiveness along with our slow pace. A ton of hitches etc for our play makers.

I think it’s somewhere in between. We can’t go hurry up that’s stupid but should we play this slow? No i think you just take it easy on teams if you do that.

 

[billmac91]

That is not what they said. They touched on the basic problem when they quoted Day. If you don't execute (get first downs) then going "faster" just hands the ball back to the opponent faster.

The problem was execution, not speed. We just saw two games in a row where the young QB was visibly sped up, confused and making mistakes because of what better defenses were doing to him. Unfortunately, speeding up a guy who's not able to execute already just isn't going to work.

The problem wasn't the speed, it was the young QB's development (along with the OL issues).

Going forward, if you have a skill advantage the best strategy is efficiency. In some tactical situations you can absolutely apply tempo but as a high level approach, efficiency is the best path if you are the more skilled team.

I mostly agree, but thought Miami showed right off the bat, we weren’t going to win with efficiency. Once Rueben Bain wrecked our offensive line, IMO, you have basically now conceded the efficiency game on that side of the ball.

I touched on this in another thread, but the problem with going slow is it allows specific defensive play-calls, including stunts to come in. Going tempo puts the defense in a “base” package which eliminates 95% of the exotic calls a defense may have. They can mix-up coverage in the backend a bit, but it’s usually very vanilla as well.

To start the 3rd Q, we finally went tempo a bit. It wasn’t Ole Miss fast, but a couple times we didn’t huddle, and we usually snapped the ball with about 22-23 seconds left on play clock.

I’m the first to admit, it’s hard to decipher the offensive success to start the 3rd Q with going more tempo versus Miami just going more vanilla to protect a 14-0 lead.

That said, when you going against comparable talent, especially elite talent at DE where that position specifically, can wreck games, you need to neutralize that threat. Tempo can absolutely do that. Indiana and Miami both used stunts to destroy our offensive line…..I really think tempo would’ve neutralized that bc stunts are typically signaled in once a defense has a chance to see offensive alignment.

I’m also very confident, for example, the pick 6 Sayin threw, is likely just a busted play rather than an interception if that comes from tempo. The ability to read and react to shifts and tendencies they’ve seen on tape, really allows Miami to play “downhill” in the first half, whereas it felt like we were playing on our heels.

I 100% get the efficiency argument and how effective it can be. I’d argue, especially with Sayin missing wide open throws (probably bc he’s a freshman?) that playing for nearly perfect execution is likely a mistake against a team with a very good, if not elite, defensive line.

Also, and not to pile on, but if Day wants to go down the efficiency rabbit hole, he better learn clock management, bc he flat out sucks at managing it. When you minimize our teams possessions by playing so slow, at least understand the best use of TO’s to maximize opportunity. It’s really not hard to get a GA, or even clock “expert” to be on staff to advise best use of TO’s….tons of coaches have humbly acknowledged they’re too engrossed in the game to make great decisions with end of half or end of game TO’s. He’s brutal at it….

 

[1926Buckeyes]

That is not what they said. They touched on the basic problem when they quoted Day. If you don't execute (get first downs) then going "faster" just hands the ball back to the opponent faster.

The problem was execution, not speed. We just saw two games in a row where the young QB was visibly sped up, confused and making mistakes because of what better defenses were doing to him. Unfortunately, speeding up a guy who's not able to execute already just isn't going to work.

The problem wasn't the speed, it was the young QB's development (along with the OL issues).

Going forward, if you have a skill advantage the best strategy is efficiency. In some tactical situations you can absolutely apply tempo but as a high level approach, efficiency is the best path if you are the more skilled team.

Seems to be harder to accept when a team hits a wall because there’s not as much you can do about it. Sometimes you have to ride the storm out with the guys you have and work to fix it afterwards.

Sayin had a great year, but there’s at least 2 clips on him missing wide open guys for TDs. The obvious one to Klare before the INT return, and a 90 yarder to Tate that he had all the way, looked past him, and threw it over the head of the RB. Neither are easy throws, as there was static in the pocket, but both are throws he makes midseason. Someone else mentioned it, but UCLA was the first to figure out pressure that bothered Sayin, they just sucked. He’ll get better.

When the QB is a great talent and they see the field, Day’s offense will shred even the best defenses. When they don’t see it, you get the last two games. Plus the OL was not helpful.

 

[RhodeIslandBuck]

Seems to be harder to accept when a team hits a wall because there’s not as much you can do about it. Sometimes you have to ride the storm out with the guys you have and work to fix it afterwards.

Sayin had a great year, but there’s at least 2 clips on him missing wide open guys for TDs. The obvious one to Klare before the INT return, and a 90 yarder to Tate that he had all the way, looked past him, and threw it over the head of the RB. Neither are easy throws, as there was static in the pocket, but both are throws he makes midseason. Someone else mentioned it, but UCLA was the first to figure out pressure that bothered Sayin, they just sucked. He’ll get better.

When the QB is a great talent and they see the field, Day’s offense will shred even the best defenses. When they don’t see it, you get the last two games. Plus the OL was not helpful.

It was McCord-esque. I believe in Julian as the guy going forward, but the whole idea of bringing him along slowly blew up in OSUs face massively come crunch time. Should have been pushed in his development more.

 

[BB73]

That is not what they said. They touched on the basic problem when they quoted Day. If you don't execute (get first downs) then going "faster" just hands the ball back to the opponent faster.

The problem was execution, not speed. We just saw two games in a row where the young QB was visibly sped up, confused and making mistakes because of what better defenses were doing to him. Unfortunately, speeding up a guy who's not able to execute already just isn't going to work.

The problem wasn't the speed, it was the young QB's development (along with the OL issues).

Going forward, if you have a skill advantage the best strategy is efficiency. In some tactical situations you can absolutely apply tempo but as a high level approach, efficiency is the best path if you are the more skilled team.

I think the default timing should be:

Don’t substitute unless there’s a stoppage in play, get in a formation around 17 seconds left, have the QB signal the formation shift and play call in the next 2 seconds, then hike it quickly after the shift. This prevents the defense from getting in fresh bodies, and prevents them from getting communication from the coaches, which is shut off at the 15-second mark.

That gives you a defense that has to shift on their own after your formation change, has minimal time to do so if you hike it quickly, and will get tired after a few plays that are coming less than 30 seconds apart without being able to sub. One disadvantage is that there is usually no motion after the formation shift to help identify zone-vs-man.

Doing that on a regular basis should allow for consistent execution. And I’d rather see a 12-possession game for tOSU than a 10-possession game.

 

[cincibuck]

The entire offensive mentality needs overhauled. I assume that comes with a new veteran OC, need a slam dunk hire.

The “limit possessions,” slow, plodding, lack of explosion deal on offense needs to be thrown in the trash can. It only ever made sense if they were doing it to keep them fresh and would turn it up when the time came. That was the bill of goods we were sold.

Turns out it was all BS. So… what was the actual reason for lack of explosives with this talent? What was the reason for playing so miserably slow and limiting your possessions so severely? These are all questions that need answered, and addressed, and I presume a new playcaller will be the first domino to addressing them.

Slow play when dealing with a bunch of 18 - 20 year-olds still makes sense. It's a fifteen game season and the NFL is only one game more.

 

[cincibuck]

I think the explosive plays were limited by Sayin. Alot of explosive plays came from the crossing routes which seems out of the offense. I think it's because Sayin doesn't see the middle of the field well because of his height.

The other part is Sayin is extremely safe with the ball. I'm not sure we have seen a QB that rather take the shorter pass than the more risky deep pass at this level at Ohio State since Day has been HC. His risk assessment is off for the talent we have at WR. If we had average WR talent he might be warranted to take these kind of throws. Our WRs talent change the calculus on how risky a throw is. Will Howard basically understood that and said it in interviews.

The wow plays by our WRs definitely went down this season because Sayin is only throwing to receivers that are very open. He doesn't like throwing to a WR that has to make a contested catch.

He sure knew how to spot an open DB the last three games.

 

[cincibuck]

I think the explosive plays were limited by Sayin. Alot of explosive plays came from the crossing routes which seems out of the offense. I think it's because Sayin doesn't see the middle of the field well because of his height.

The other part is Sayin is extremely safe with the ball. I'm not sure we have seen a QB that rather take the shorter pass than the more risky deep pass at this level at Ohio State since Day has been HC. His risk assessment is off for the talent we have at WR. If we had average WR talent he might be warranted to take these kind of throws. Our WRs talent change the calculus on how risky a throw is. Will Howard basically understood that and said it in interviews.

The wow plays by our WRs definitely went down this season because Sayin is only throwing to receivers that are very open. He doesn't like throwing to a WR that has to make a contested catch.

Wow plays seem to me to increase when you have a QB who can run and takes away the number advantage the defense has.

 

[Captain Buckeye]

I mostly agree, but thought Miami showed right off the bat, we weren’t going to win with efficiency. Once Rueben Bain wrecked our offensive line, IMO, you have basically now conceded the efficiency game on that side of the ball.

I touched on this in another thread, but the problem with going slow is it allows specific defensive play-calls, including stunts to come in. Going tempo puts the defense in a “base” package which eliminates 95% of the exotic calls a defense may have. They can mix-up coverage in the backend a bit, but it’s usually very vanilla as well.

To start the 3rd Q, we finally went tempo a bit. It wasn’t Ole Miss fast, but a couple times we didn’t huddle, and we usually snapped the ball with about 22-23 seconds left on play clock.

I’m the first to admit, it’s hard to decipher the offensive success to start the 3rd Q with going more tempo versus Miami just going more vanilla to protect a 14-0 lead.

That said, when you going against comparable talent, especially elite talent at DE where that position specifically, can wreck games, you need to neutralize that threat. Tempo can absolutely do that. Indiana and Miami both used stunts to destroy our offensive line…..I really think tempo would’ve neutralized that bc stunts are typically signaled in once a defense has a chance to see offensive alignment.

I’m also very confident, for example, the pick 6 Sayin threw, is likely just a busted play rather than an interception if that comes from tempo. The ability to read and react to shifts and tendencies they’ve seen on tape, really allows Miami to play “downhill” in the first half, whereas it felt like we were playing on our heels.

I 100% get the efficiency argument and how effective it can be. I’d argue, especially with Sayin missing wide open throws (probably bc he’s a freshman?) that playing for nearly perfect execution is likely a mistake against a team with a very good, if not elite, defensive line.

Also, and not to pile on, but if Day wants to go down the efficiency rabbit hole, he better learn clock management, bc he flat out sucks at managing it. When you minimize our teams possessions by playing so slow, at least understand the best use of TO’s to maximize opportunity. It’s really not hard to get a GA, or even clock “expert” to be on staff to advise best use of TO’s….tons of coaches have humbly acknowledged they’re too engrossed in the game to make great decisions with end of half or end of game TO’s. He’s brutal at it….

I agree here.

We should be saving our reps and limiting vs the teams we can. For example, Ball State or Kent State or Maryland etc. But as Billmac points out, when it’s like for like talent it’s hard to be efficient.

Think how we started the 2019 Clemson game, the 2020 Clemson game, Tennessee, Oregon, Notre Dame… we were up two scores before they knew it and then we started bleeding clock (2019 being the rare exception).

It’s a vicious cycle and I understand especially vs Miami early why we didn’t play fast. After all, the defense couldn’t get off the field and if we go tempo we’re punting in no time. However there was a point in the second half that Miami had to call time out because their DL had hands on hips and the were driving again.

Hard to rush the passer when they can’t breathe

 

[dragurd]

I think the default timing should be:

Don’t substitute unless there’s a stoppage in play, get in a formation around 17 seconds left, have the QB signal the formation shift and play call in the next 2 seconds, then hike it quickly after the shift. This prevents the defense from getting in fresh bodies, and prevents them from getting communication from the coaches, which is shut off at the 15-second mark.

That gives you a defense that has to shift on their own after your formation change, has minimal time to do so if you hike it quickly, and will get tired after a few plays that are coming less than 30 seconds apart without being able to sub. One disadvantage is that there is usually no motion after the formation shift to help identify zone-vs-man.

Doing that on a regular basis should allow for consistent execution. And I’d rather see a 12-possession game for tOSU than a 10-possession game.

Not only that I don't think Day has adjusted to if you go faster and see the creaper from the sidelines you can tell him the answer in the helmet coms if you are quick enough

 

[brodybuck21]

Not sure if it was touched on so pardon me but didn't we see tempo utilized against our defense more and more as season went on to combat Patricias late def movements to confuse our opponents? Seems like it was and if so it makes our continued deliberate pace on offense that much more frustrating when we were seeing it play out on the other side of the ball

 

[dragurd]

Not sure if it was touched on so pardon me but didn't we see tempo utilized against our defense more and more as season went on to combat Patricias late def movements to confuse our opponents? Seems like it was and if so it makes our continued deliberate pace on offense that much more frustrating when we were seeing it play out on the other side of the ball

Kinda but it didn't really work except for a play or two here and there. Most teams adjusted to do what Miami was doing with their throws which was more successful. Just throw hitches and outs outside cause we are playing 10 yard off bailing with turning our hips inside on snap.

 

[billmac91]

I agree here.

We should be saving our reps and limiting vs the teams we can. For example, Ball State or Kent State or Maryland etc. But as Billmac points out, when it’s like for like talent it’s hard to be efficient.

Think how we started the 2019 Clemson game, the 2020 Clemson game, Tennessee, Oregon, Notre Dame… we were up two scores before they knew it and then we started bleeding clock (2019 being the rare exception).

It’s a vicious cycle and I understand especially vs Miami early why we didn’t play fast. After all, the defense couldn’t get off the field and if we go tempo we’re punting in no time. However there was a point in the second half that Miami had to call time out because their DL had hands on hips and the were driving again.

Hard to rush the passer when they can’t breathe

I’m not ever sure about this anymore….at least in regards to reps for backups.

Our local reporters are even commenting on the potential negative recruiting aspects of it.

Kids want to play….if OSU wants to minimize STARTER reps to keep them fresh, I get it. But when we’re up 30 on Ohio University, and we’re milking the clock down…..it’s an opportunity for the backups to develop but also have fun and an opportunity to shine.

I feel like Day has seen some major pendulum swings in his career here at OSU….I feel like he swung too far conservative this year, where he felt like we could just be a machine and mathematically dismantle each opponent. Unfortunately, while we do have a significant talent advantage over most teams, it’s not large enough to withstand terrible FG kicking, and freshman mistake at QB.

On top of that….and this probably isn’t that important in context of winning a championship, but the style of play just isn’t “fun”. I’m not sure when it starts showing up in recruiting, but if we truly want to consistently have like 50 offensive snaps a game, it will begin impacting the recruits we bring in. I’ve said it many times about Kirby Smart…..I love that when he goes to his backups in blow-outs, he coaches even harder. He puts the onus on the defense to stop his young kids, and he’s playing the game out like they’re playing for a championship. It’s huge for player development, depth, and confidence later in year should you have significant injury.

We’ll see, but I think the pendulum will swing back some next year (in a more aggressive direction).

 

[Onebuckfan]

not verbatim but Bill for sure does not think our current approach is good. Went as far to say he believes it’ll start costing us recruits. Doug I suppose didn’t outright go into it as much as Bill did.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on the speed of play. Slower speeds vs these elite teams also means they only have to be efficient a small number of times as well. IMO you want more opportunities for JJ Smith not less. Especially when the defense can handle the stress test.

I’m not talking break neck speed. Just dial it up more early in games. We play start to finish like we have a 3 TD lead. That’s not a good approach if you’re losing by 14.

Bill and Doug also mentioned we just lack explosiveness along with our slow pace. A ton of hitches etc for our play makers.

I think it’s somewhere in between. We can’t go hurry up that’s stupid but should we play this slow? No i think you just take it easy on teams if you do that.

Vary the speed. I think Day thought he. was helping Sayin by slowing it down. Again Wed . Sayin was running to the sideline…he’s should be able to know the call is based on time score down and distance.