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2018 tOSU Offense Discussion

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OHIO STATE GAINING YARDS AT WILL THROUGH AIR, BUT WORRIED TEAMS WILL FORCE THEM TO PLAY “LEFT HANDED” ON THE GROUND

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For the first time in Urban Meyer’s stint at Ohio State, the Buckeyes pulled out a win while rushing for 100 or fewer yards. They held off Minnesota for a 30-14 win on Saturday despite Mike Weber (51 yards), J.K. Dobbins (35 yards) and Dwayne Haskins (six yards) combining for just 92 rushing yards.

In the past decade, games with such little production on the ground have almost always ended in Ohio State losses.

The only two other games during Meyer’s tenure that teams rushed for so few yards resulted in a 31-0 Fiesta Bowl loss to Clemson in 2016 and a 17-14 loss to Michigan State in 2015 that effectively eliminated the Buckeyes from College Football Playoff contention. In fact, Ohio State has lost its past eight games in which they rushed for 92 or fewer yards, dating back to 2007.

This team’s offense, though, differs from every other unit since Meyer arrived at Ohio State for one reason: Haskins.

He dices up defenses through the air unlike any other Buckeye quarterback Meyer has coached, which has altered the offensive “balance” he holds in such high regard.

Meyer’s Ohio State teams have accrued more rushing than passing yards per game in five of his six seasons. In his 16 seasons prior to this one as a head coach – six at Ohio State, six at Florida, two at Utah and two at Bowling Green State – his offense maxed out at 263.7 passing yards per game with eventual first overall NFL draft pick Alex Smith in 2004.

With Haskins, that has drastically changed. Haskins’ 412-yard game against Minnesota increased the Buckeyes’ average to 371.4 passing yards per game. It doubles Ohio State’s average in 2012 (185.5 pass yards per game) and nearly doubles 2015’s average (188.8).

As the Haskins-led pass game has continued to reach new heights, though, Ohio State’s run game has faltered. The Buckeyes average 185.4 rush yards per game this season. They have not rushed for fewer than 242.3 rush yards per game in a prior season under Meyer as head coach.

Meyer called the lack of rushing production “discouraging a little bit” after the game, but seemed to lean into a pass-first approach.

“Once again, (we’re) 7-0, and looking down we're throwing for 412. It is what it is,” Meyer said. “Just knowing the game of football, I've been around. At some point, you've got to line up and do what you do.”

Can Ohio State win with 400-plus passing yards and fewer than 100 rushing yards?

“I think so,” Meyer said. “As of today and last week, no, but there certainly are signs. We've got two good backs, and we've just got it get it worked out.”

Entire article: https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio...make-them-beat-with-left-handed-on-the-ground
 
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"Can Ohio State win with 400-plus passing yards and fewer than 100 rushing yards?"

Well Clemson did it couple of years back up against what some consider to be one of the best defenses ever, and we have a QB who arguably has a better arm than Deshaun Watson. Still, I am with Urbz on this one. Basically turning into a Big 12 offense and barely being able to run the ball gives me the heebie jeebies. What happens when Dwayne Haskins has an off game? I would also ask what happens in a bad weather game but we've seen bad weather completely shut down even our dominant running game so not sure what to do there. Plus weather didn't affect Haskins at all during the Rutgers game.
 
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Systems_id said:
"Can Ohio State win with 400-plus passing yards and fewer than 100 rushing yards?"

Well Clemson did it couple of years back up against what some consider to be one of the best defenses ever, and we have a QB who arguably has a better arm than Deshaun Watson. Still, I am with Urbz on this one. Basically turning into a Big 12 offense and barely being able to run the ball gives me the heebie jeebies. What happens when Dwayne Haskins has an off game? I would also ask what happens in a bad weather game but we've seen bad weather completely shut down even our dominant running game so not sure what to do there. Plus weather didn't affect Haskins at all during the Rutgers game.
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It's certainly a concern. Mostly bad weather, I agree.

Run blocking is a big part of it, as this OL is still struggling to gel altogether as a good unit. Moreso though, I think he (or Day/Wilson, but probs just Meyer) is just being too stubborn with the play calling based on the screenshots @Jaxbuck is sharing. Need to give a few hot read audibles to Haskins to throw out of the run plays in which OSU is calling. After a team gets burnt for about 5 slants for 70 yards and a TD, all of a sudden the running game will magically get better.

Everyone remember the TCU game? When Day called a pretty obvious pass first game-plan, but had certain early drives where they ran 6 out of 8 plays...probably because they were giving them the run on those drives? Not a perfect game for the offense by any means, but that's what OSU needs to go back to.

If a team knows you're going to run into a brick wall and waste downs every single drive because you're worried about being 'balanced', why wouldn't you just load the box and hope to see OSU keep at it and try to stop them on low % 3rd and longs? That seems to be what's happening and it's ridiculous. Even if the run game clicks, you're not going to have a 275/275 yardage split with Haskins at QB so get over it (talking to Meyer, not you Systems) and commit to play calling that will get this offense into more of a flow.
 
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1926Buckeyes said:
It's certainly a concern. Mostly bad weather, I agree.

Run blocking is a big part of it, as this OL is still struggling to gel altogether as a good unit. Moreso though, I think he (or Day/Wilson, but probs just Meyer) is just being too stubborn with the play calling based on the screenshots @Jaxbuck is sharing. Need to give a few hot read audibles to Haskins to throw out of the run plays in which OSU is calling. After a team gets burnt for about 5 slants for 70 yards and a TD, all of a sudden the running game will magically get better.

Everyone remember the TCU game? When Day called a pretty obvious pass first game-plan, but had certain early drives where they ran 6 out of 8 plays...probably because they were giving them the run on those drives? Not a perfect game for the offense by any means, but that's what OSU needs to go back to.

If a team knows you're going to run into a brick wall and waste downs every single drive because you're worried about being 'balanced', why wouldn't you just load the box and hope to see OSU keep at it and try to stop them on low % 3rd and longs? That seems to be what's happening and it's ridiculous. Even if the run game clicks, you're not going to have a 275/275 yardage split with Haskins at QB so get over it (talking to Meyer, not you Systems) and commit to play calling that will get this offense into more of a flow.
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Yep. To me it's like moneyball.

Opponents are overvaluing the run and undervaluing the pass. They have equal value. A yard is a yard.

Don't let the opponent dictate. Bruce Lee said it best; “Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”

Be water Urban
 
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Systems_id said:
"Can Ohio State win with 400-plus passing yards and fewer than 100 rushing yards?"

Well Clemson did it couple of years back up against what some consider to be one of the best defenses ever, and we have a QB who arguably has a better arm than Deshaun Watson. Still, I am with Urbz on this one. Basically turning into a Big 12 offense and barely being able to run the ball gives me the heebie jeebies. What happens when Dwayne Haskins has an off game? I would also ask what happens in a bad weather game but we've seen bad weather completely shut down even our dominant running game so not sure what to do there. Plus weather didn't affect Haskins at all during the Rutgers game.
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The problem is their QB could run as well as JT Barrett (at least in terms of explosiveness).
 
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Jaxbuck said:
Yep. To me it's like moneyball.

Opponents are overvaluing the run and undervaluing the pass. They have equal value. A yard is a yard.

Don't let the opponent dictate. Bruce Lee said it best; “Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”

Be water Urban
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I'm not sure about the equal value, because I believe that a great running attack progressively breaks down an opposing defense, physically and psychologically, in a way that a great passing attack does not. Mostly for that reason, I'd generally rather have a great rushing attack and a decent passing attack, than vice-versa.

Regarding OSU's stubbornness in insisting on running the ball when the defense is overplaying the run, you know the case for that even though it's counterproductive in the short term. Because when you're playing opponents that you are 90% sure you will beat (speaking hypothetically, you can argue whether OSU should feel that way against middling teams at this point), it is reasonable to spend some time trying to do the things you're not as good at and that you know you will need later, in the hope of getting better. Essentially, you treat the game against an inferior opponent as an enhanced practice opportunity. Of course, in a game against an equal opponent, where you know your season goals are truly threatened, it would make more sense to drop the practice, and do what you're best at; especially if the opposing defense is daring you to do so.

A minor quibble on your Bruce-Lee-inspired comment: that sounds very much like letting your opponent dictate, both in terms of Bruce Lee's metaphors and in terms of your football application. If your opponent is a teapot, you become a teapot. If your opponent, by overplaying the run, dares you to throw a slant on 3rd and 2, you throw a slant on 3rd and 2.
 
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zincfinger said:
I'm not sure about the equal value, because I believe that a great running attack progressively breaks down an opposing defense, physically and psychologically, in a way that a great passing attack does not. Mostly for that reason, I'd generally rather have a great rushing attack and a decent passing attack, than vice-versa.

Regarding OSU's stubbornness in insisting on running the ball when the defense is overplaying the run, you know the case for that even though it's counterproductive in the short term. Because when you're playing opponents that you are 90% sure you will beat (speaking hypothetically, you can argue whether OSU should feel that way against middling teams at this point), it is reasonable to spend some time trying to do the things you're not as good at and that you know you will need later, in the hope of getting better. Essentially, you treat the game against an inferior opponent as an enhanced practice opportunity. Of course, in a game against an equal opponent, where you know your season goals are truly threatened, it would make more sense to drop the practice, and do what you're best at; especially if the opposing defense is daring you to do so.

A minor quibble on your Bruce-Lee-inspired comment: that sounds very much like letting your opponent dictate, both in terms of Bruce Lee's metaphors and in terms of your football application. If your opponent is a teapot, you become a teapot. If your opponent, by overplaying the run, dares you to throw a slant on 3rd and 2, you throw a slant on 3rd and 2.
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I used to agree that a brutal run game broke the opponents will but I don't think that really happens anymore in modern football. I think you break their will by scoring.

Also, I am not saying never run, you have to keep teams honest but there is a fine line there.

Regarding Lee; what I feel he meant was be shapeless to your opponent so they don't know how to attack. Whatever they do, you take shape around them and strike their weakness so, yes, if they take away the run..you pass. If they take away the run and deep pass (PSU) you attack with short passing game. Goes back to Tsun Tzu, know your opponent and know yourself and victory is assured type thing. JMO.
 
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Jaxbuck said:
I used to agree that a brutal run game broke the opponents will but I don't think that really happens anymore in modern football. I think you break their will by scoring.

Also, I am not saying never run, you have to keep teams honest but there is a fine line there.

Regarding Lee; what I feel he meant was be shapeless to your opponent so they don't know how to attack. Whatever they do, you take shape around them and strike their weakness so, yes, if they take away the run..you pass. If they take away the run and deep pass (PSU) you attack with short passing game. Goes back to Tsun Tzu, know your opponent and know yourself and victory is assured type thing. JMO.
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Scoring lots of points, whether by land or by air, does tend to break their morale. But I continue to believe that a relentlessly effective rushing attack leaves the opposing D-line and linebackers physically beaten in a way that a relentlessly effective passing attack does not. I've seen a quoted comment here about Mike Leach's Texas Tech offenses, for example, being physical passing offenses. But I don't think it has the same effect.

And don't be quoting TSUN Tzu to me.
 
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Systems_id said:
Yeah but they didn't run the ball well at all against Alabama. Only ran for something like 70 yards. Watson just threw the hell out of that ball.
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Yep. They also nearly broke him the first time, though he should have won both years if anyone in orange knew what a TE was (frankly either game).

It's also important to realize how often Cardale & OSU were buried 3rd and long in both playoff games. It's easy to remember mighty Bama putting OSU in tough spots, and Cardale stealing Trey and Landon's respective manhoods. But even lowly Oregon was putting them behind the chains repeatedly. Even the QB sneak didn't work against Oregon, it required a all time bit of improvisation from an not particularly agile QB.
 
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zincfinger said:
Scoring lots of points, whether by land or by air, does tend to break their morale. But I continue to believe that a relentlessly effective rushing attack leaves the opposing D-line and linebackers physically beaten in a way that a relentlessly effective passing attack does not. I've seen a quoted comment here about Mike Leach's Texas Tech offenses, for example, being physical passing offenses. But I don't think it has the same effect.

And don't be quoting TSUN Tzu to me.
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I didn't quote him. I paraphrased
 
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