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2018 tOSU Defense Discussion

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pnuts34 said:
I'm skeptical of the defense next year. For a few reasons :

The DL is going to lose an immense amount of talent, basically like what we lost at DB last year, and will be leaning on one kid who can be a rising star(Bosa, like Ward was this year) and guys stepping into new starter roles. the biggest difference being that no one in the DB core was as talented as Young(Sheffield looked like a star in spring and fall camp, but not once the season started). Young has proven himself in real time game reps and will be a monster given starter reps. After Bosa and Young, Jones and Landers, its all unknowns. which can be seen as good and bad, we won't find out until the off season and we REALLY won't find out until the season begins.

LB hinges on IF Baker returns(he still realistically can leave for the NFL) and IF Booker can ever become the player that everyone thought he would be when he signed with the Buckeyes. Outside of Borland and Harrison, the rest of the LBs are unknown outside of special teams.

DB will be interesting, because for another year we lose a prominent player in that corp. And no one from this years starters(not named Denzel Ward) makes me confident that they can step in for #12. I say the staff should go with the young guns and Sheffield and Arnette are special teamers if they can't step up to the level that OSU needs them to be. Too much young talent on this roster at CB and S to not play them in favor of upper class men, I don't see how Okudah, Wade, Riep and Williamson can't offer as much talent. And not to mention Pryor at S. Fuller looks to be our best returning DB
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Bosa isn't a rising star. He's a star already and would be a top draft pick this year if he were draft eligible. I agree with bukipower about Okudah stepping right in.
 
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Bill Lucas said:
Bosa isn't a rising star. He's a star already and would be a top draft pick this year if he were draft eligible. I agree with bukipower about Okudah stepping right in.
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I think a ton of us are not valuing Arnette properly too.. He's big and in my personal opinion he's been fantastic after a rough first game or two.

I really really like the secondary next year... Experience and Size all over the place.
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
It is stupid when he could go from making $800,000 a year (with much less guaranteed) to $2-6M a year (with a lot, if not most, guaranteed). In case you're unaware, there are insurance policies designed specifically for this scenario which are at no/little cost to the kid upfront. Now, if he grades about at early- to mid-second round, then maybe make the jump, but if he's graded at third round or later his best choice is to get the insurance and build himself into a higher draft pick. This ain't selfishness on my part, but rather what's most likely best for Jerome.

This will give you an idea of the salary disparities between rounds: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/draft/
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No, I'm aware of the insurance policies, but if the kids dream is to play in the NFL, regardless of where he grades won't matter. He certainly has NFL talent, and besides your real money is in your 2nd contract anyway. His upside can be enough for a team to take. IMO, what's best for him is a paycheck, you can get better playing against the best competition. I'd love for him to come back being a Buckeye fan, but as an adult I think he should do what's best for him and his family
 
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bukIpower said:
You don't think Okudah doesn't step up? He's gotten the most reps of any freshman that's played for Coach Combs which is saying a TON. Even if Okudah doesn't step up we will have Arnette and Sheffield which I believe those two have been playing great all year.

The DL will not be as deep but IMO the starting 4 will be better but don't sleep on all the kids that have got reps over the past two years. Cooper, Cornell and then adding Jackson as well as Vincent should be some really good depth. Maybe not as good as this years depth but it won't be startling how bad they are either.
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I may have worded it wrong, but I definitely think that Okudah will step up and could earn a starting spot. I thought I said that, sorry if I didn't. But I disagree on the play of Arnette and Sheffield neither impressed me.

Bill Lucas said:
Bosa isn't a rising star. He's a star already and would be a top draft pick this year if he were draft eligible. I agree with bukipower about Okudah stepping right in.
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When I said "rising star" I meant as someone who will play every down next year as opposed to this year. It wasn't a knock on him because yes, he's a star(B1G DPOY). But I thought this year, the depth helped him a lot because OLs were obviously worn down from going after the waves of DL that we had.
 
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pnuts34 said:
No, I'm aware of the insurance policies, but if the kids dream is to play in the NFL, regardless of where he grades won't matter.
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It definitely matters monetary-wise. Unless he is in a financial bind, it's definitely in his best interest to raise his draft stock.

pnuts34 said:
He certainly has NFL talent, and besides your real money is in your 2nd contract anyway. His upside can be enough for a team to take.
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So, you're saying that he should skip his senior year because he could get injured, but yet his "real money" in the NFL would be in his second contract, which would be several years into his time in the NFL where the physical toll and risk of injury is far greater and could prevent him from even getting to that "real money". And while I'm aware that he has NFL talent and enough upside for a team to take, it's how much talent teams think he has and where they will take him.

pnuts34 said:
IMO, what's best for him is a paycheck, you can get better playing against the best competition. I'd love for him to come back being a Buckeye fan, but as an adult I think he should do what's best for him and his family
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I bet you don't haggle much in job interviews. What best for him is not an immediate pay check, but setting himself up for a much bigger paycheck. You keep mentioning his family...I checked his bio and it appears he's still single, so it's not like he's like the players who already have a wife and kid to support.

Quick personal experience that sort of fits in: After I went through USAF basic training, they did not have a technical school slot open for me and several others in my just-graduated flight (a flight is organizational level below squadron), so they put us in "Casual" barracks, which basically is being in limbo until your get your orders to tech school. Ever couple weeks, an SP (security police, USAF equivalent of an MP), would come in and ask if anyone would like to become an SP so they could get out of Casual and "get into the real Air Force". The SP tech school was literally blocks away, and all one had to do was waive the agreement in their enlistment contract that guaranteed the choice of job...they could be out of Casual in a day or two and be in a tech school where you could basically have a life. Now, Casual itself wasn't bad...all we had to do was go around base doing odd taskings like policing up areas and assisting with food prep and cleaning dishes the chow halls. It was menial, but not bad. Still, we'd have a couple impatient knuckleheads who'd want to get out of Casual so bad that they'd agree to waive their enlistment contract when that SP would come around, and have to spend the rest of their 4-6 year enlistment as a cop instead of what they wanted. Each time I was asked, I told him thanks but no thanks. I had to stick it out for six weeks in Casual (basic training itself was only six weeks long), so at the time it seemed an eternity, but I ended up getting to go to radio comm maintenance tech school and got into the career field that I wanted and eventually got to go overseas. You cannot believe how glad I am to this very day I didn't just "take the paycheck", or in that case, take the lesser job, just to have one.
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
It definitely matters monetary-wise. Unless he is in a financial bind, it's definitely in his best interest to raise his draft stock.


So, you're saying that he should skip his senior year because he could get injured, but yet his "real money" in the NFL would be in his second contract, which would be several years into his time in the NFL where the physical toll and risk of injury is far greater and could prevent him from even getting to that "real money". And while I'm aware that he has NFL talent and enough upside for a team to take, it's how much talent teams think he has and where they will take him.


I bet you don't haggle much in job interviews. What best for him is not an immediate pay check, but setting himself up for a much bigger paycheck. You keep mentioning his family...I checked his bio and it appears he's still single, so it's not like he's like the players who already have a wife and kid to support.

Quick personal experience that sort of fits in: After I went through USAF basic training, they did not have a technical school slot open for me and several others in my just-graduated flight (a flight is organizational level below squadron), so they put us in "Casual" barracks, which basically is being in limbo until your get your orders to tech school. Ever couple weeks, an SP (security police, USAF equivalent of an MP), would come in and ask if anyone would like to become an SP so they could get out of Casual and "get into the real Air Force". The SP tech school was literally blocks away, and all one had to do was waive the agreement in their enlistment contract that guaranteed the choice of job...they could be out of Casual in a day or two and be in a tech school where you could basically have a life. Now, Casual itself wasn't bad...all we had to do was go around base doing odd taskings like policing up areas and assisting with food prep and cleaning dishes the chow halls. It was menial, but not bad. Still, we'd have a couple impatient knuckleheads who'd want to get out of Casual so bad that they'd agree to waive their enlistment contract when that SP would come around, and have to spend the rest of their 4-6 year enlistment as a cop instead of what they wanted. Each time I was asked, I told him thanks but no thanks. I had to stick it out for six weeks in Casual (basic training itself was only six weeks long), so at the time it seemed an eternity, but I ended up getting to go to radio comm maintenance tech school and got into the career field that I wanted and eventually got to go overseas. You cannot believe how glad I am to this very day I didn't just "take the paycheck", or in that case, take the lesser job, just to have one.
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I'm no going to quote everything you said, but players want to play against the best at the best level. I feel that you strike while the iron is hot, and its not set that Baker will have a better year next year, I doubt he falls out of the top 3 rounds, from film and when you get him tested in combines. He did look lost at times and over pursued, and can very well do the same thing next year. I think his sights have been on the pros all year and that affected his play some.
And as far as being able to haggle for jobs, me haggling at a job interview is irrelevant, since I'm not in a job industry where I could face major injury in a split second. One of Bakers favorite players(from his words not mine) is ryan shazier, I'm sure watching that MNF game showed how short this game can be. Its nice to say come back and raise your draft stock, or leave and prove you're ready. I'm sure Cardale wished that he left after 2014 instead of "raising his draft stock". but I guess our discussion is moot until after the season is over and the testing begins. He can always come back and earn a degree but playing against the best in the world for a once in a lifetime paycheck doesn't come by often
 
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Whatever the reason for the distraction or lack of execution, it's not likely to get better after coming back for another season. We're also not talking about Parris Campbell here who is a big unknown in terms of his draft stock. Baker has top-20 talent and measurables. He had top-30 production two years ago. Someone will take him by the late second round on potential alone.
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
It is stupid when he could go from making $800,000 a year (with much less guaranteed) to $2-6M a year (with a lot, if not most, guaranteed). In case you're unaware, there are insurance policies designed specifically for this scenario which are at no/little cost to the kid upfront. Now, if he grades about at early- to mid-second round, then maybe make the jump, but if he's graded at third round or later his best choice is to get the insurance and build himself into a higher draft pick. This ain't selfishness on my part, but rather what's most likely best for Jerome.

This will give you an idea of the salary disparities between rounds: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/draft/
Click to expand...
The insurance payouts are notoriously unreliable for actual injuries, and they absolutely do not pay out if he struggles next year and slides further.
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
Wasn't Ebnoics...southern drawl. But thanks for jumping to conclusions.
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Because that fits well when discussing Yankee school with almost no drawl on the team.

Like pnuts'viewpoint in my mouth .

I think Jerome should go because I don't know if his head is in the right place and I'm not sure another year would be healthy for either side. If he balls out again next month vs usc, his stock will be fine
 
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Jones has been slowed by injury, for sure, but the guy's ceiling is a mile high. I would expect him to go through the eval process, and I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a glowing review. And if that happens, he's gone.
 
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buckeyesin07 said:
Jones has been slowed by injury, for sure, but the guy's ceiling is a mile high. I would expect him to go through the eval process, and I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a glowing review. And if that happens, he's gone.
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I think he comes back because his season has been a slight disappointment. He hasn't been a known commodity like Baker and is quite undersized for NFL DTs. Crazier things have happened and he may say "screw it, I'm ready" and leave. But I just see him returning for another year. And that would be a great for this DL
 
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