2009 TSUN arguments, shenanigans (not football)

[NFBuck]

Actually, it was something like "Our LBs can run step-for-step with Ginn". Crack-induced stupidity nonetheless...

One of those pre-Rose Bowl Oregon yahoos reminded me a lot of old xray...xray was on his own plain, but that Oregon guy was something special.

 

[Jim Schwartz]

Ouch

 

[scooter1369]

Lone, lovelorn wolverine baffles scientists

Wolverine in California caught dry humping a tree. A real wolverine.

 

[3074326]

Ouch

And West Virginia is a top 10 basketball team and a top 25 football team. Hilarious.

 

[Oh8ch]

Wolverine in California caught dry humping a tree. A real wolverine.

Can you still question that Barwis can get them to do extraordinary things?

 

[cincibuck]

Lone, lovelorn wolverine baffles scientists

Wolverine in California caught dry humping a tree. A real wolverine.

1. And they eat their young.
2. One of the few animals that kills for the fun of it.

Great find.

PS, hope it wasn't a horse chestnut tree.

 

[kritz76]

Ouch

i was kinda partial to this one ...

 

[sepia5]

Lone, lovelorn wolverine baffles scientists

Wolverine in California caught dry humping a tree. A real wolverine.

I'd love to hear the Google searches you were running when you discovered this.

 

[localyokel]

I'd love to hear the Google searches you were running when you discovered this.

Dating out of your species?

 

[Jim Schwartz]

Bp gives gbw a hard time for their excuses, and rightfully so. Many are starting to lose their patence with rr, though the head honcho at gbw still fosters an environment of excuses and righteous martyrdom for only non-cheaters.

I wanted to tip my cap to a few who have called out the bs excuses all along.

MichiganManKraz wrote: Keep on playin that tune, guys.* It's a weak one at best.

Great, once again touching on a familiar topic. *What, people were too board ot argue whether he ran off Mallet or not?


I would say though that if you're going to argue the whole "bare cupboard" theory, you can't in turn argue the whole "he can do more with less" and "he'll develop players" argument, right?

All of this is weak and just a matter of chasing squirrels endlessly.*


Excuses everywhere.* That's all we've got around here because that's what everyone wants to focus on. Nobody's saying we were Big Ten championship caliber and didn't achieve that end.* The reasoning of bottom- of-the-barrel talent is employed because people feel we somehow need to justify bottom-or-the-barrel performance.* One does not automatically equal the other.* And justification can often be a giant waste of time - as I feel it is on this mess anymore.


Focus on underachievement, entitlement and a lack of commitment or desire - that's the applecart that got upset after all... the mental side of things.* Top it off with a complete misunderstanding about how every team would give us their absolute best effort while we were showing the world how square pegs can't fit into round holes and now you've got more of an argument.


If you're not willing to go there, and you're committed to the talent is the primary thing that wins games argument, prove to me that we had bottom-of-the- big-ten-for-two-straight seasons talent.* Show me how the players we recruited and had in the system were beneath the Purdues, Northwesterns, Indianas, Illinois(eses)*Minnesotas and what everyone else had recruited in the big ten for 2 or 3 years straight.* That s right... you can't.* Nobody can.* Sure, we lost some talented players - as does everyone - but those players were recruited under a similar philosophy as all of the other players that were still on the team.* At best you can show how we didn't have the talent to hang with OSU and Penn State - at best.* So at worst that makes us "average".* Average talent could have gotten to .500 or better seasons against a weak Big Ten, especially if we weren't trying to stick the square pegs into round holes.* The rest is about the mental state of affairs and not protecting your defense for two straight years when they needed the opposite.*

Can't forget about injuries, either.* They were huge and affected both older and younger players and hit hard in areas that were critical.


But god I am sick of hearing the cupboard was empty as if RR walked into some hopeless situation.* Maybe it was only 2/3 full or half full - but the bigger issue was what it contained didn't "fit" his one and only plan and how that was handled is likely going to end up being the legacy RR leaves behind if he doesn't right the ship right away.

And another thread destroying these lame excuses

1) Clearly you've never had a contractor on your house.*You want the contractor to work long the pace you set. *No one, absolutely no one, thought it would take 3 years to get to a bowl. *


2) To extend your metaphor - you picked the contractor because you thought he would take your very nice house and turn it into the nicest house on the block, through a lovely extension. *Instead of adding on to your nice house, he's knocked it down. *Which would be fine but instead of building up in a year, it's now been 2 years, and it's nowhere near done. *Promises on finishing went from 2010 to 12.
*Youre running out of money, your neighbors houses are still looking better, even the puny little brother house next store.


3) If you ever had a contractor, you would know that while it's a pain to get someone else in to finish the job, you can't let that fact allow the first contractor to do a substandard job. *Bottom line - if the original contractor isn't getting the job done along the right timelines, and to date the workmanship hasn't been up to your standards, you have to replace him.


4) Tom has said repeatedly that RR's job is on the line. *Wishing it was different, projecting your feelings on brandon, seems silly. *He does have to win, whether you like it or not.


5) There are a million places to talk politics, but this shouldn't be one of them.

i am absolutely sick and tired of gettin on here and all i ever see is, "we have to win now", "it's now or never" "lose and he's done", etc..get off of it already...all RR needs to do this year is improve upon 5-7...i think of it this way, if i have a contractor building my house im not gonna be constantly on him sayin its now or never, get it down NOW!!!! i would prefer him take a lil' extra time to BUILD....brandon knows this, he's a bus. man....if you bring someone else in next year, you've got another 3 or 4 years of misery, and then....before you know it we are easily comparable to mich bb.... the 2 camps (pro RR v. anti RR) reminds me so much of dems and reps, and that that's not workin in washington...just let him be, he'll be Fine

this 77 post was the first post in the thread.

 

[Jim Schwartz]

bcdiresta wrote: Baloney. *Has he had challenges? *Yes. Are there people against him? *Yep. *But there about 60 to 70 coaches in the country that would trade places with him in a second to have the advantages that Michigan has. *If you think the Coach of Toledo or IL has it easier, you're deluding yourself

goblue35 wrote: You are also asking him to build that beautiful house with a screwdriver and a roll of duct tape. You gotta give him time to get his own tools to
work with.

bcdiresta wrote: Not really, if we are to judge by everything we've been told.


The Committee recommended Les Miles, which would not encompass a "rebuild." *This was turned down, but subesequent offers went out to Ferentz and then Schiano. *Again, neither suggest a "rebuild" *It was only after all of that went down that an offer went out RR.*So this whole "Dad wanted a total rebuild" seems more like wishful thinking than what actually happened.


On top of that, the tear down still has not gone up.*And it is certainly no closer to being the nicest house in the nation, let along nicer than the bungalows. *By all accounts, folks such as yourself are telling us it might take 4 years just to get a house that looks just like the bungalow we replaced (Boy, we could be 9-4, 10-3 in 2011, what a bungalow!).


But back to the OP, it's this simple - he has to win this
year. *No amount of complaining is going to change that. *And frankly, if he can't build a better house after 3 years, it's time to get a new contractor.

kjvthumper wrote: Its not dead on. There are some cracks in bc's presupposition. The contractor wasn't picked to make my very nice house into the nicest house on the block with a lovely extension. That is what some of the kids wanted but dad decided that he didn't just want the best house on the block. He wanted the best house in the country. What looked nice in the neighborhood was a simple bungalow among bungalow's. Dad decided to go all out and compete with the houses in So Cal, Texas, and Florida. This required a demolition and rebuild. There was no simple way to rebuild a bungalow into a mansion without tearing it apart. In the mean time, dad had to do this while keeping the house livable. So he knew it would take some time. In the meantime, the kids who didn't get their way have tried to sabotage dad's efforts because they didn't want a mansion through demolition. They wanted a mansion by addition because they had a sentimental attitude toward the bungalow they grew up in. So during the darkness of night, they would cut cords to the power tools of the contractor. They would put sugar in the fuel tanks of the power equipment and then complain to their neighbors that their dad is nuts for tearing up the old house and building new.* In the meantime, dad continues to do what he knows best in spite of the obstacles he has to overcome. He knows if given enough time that this house is going to be awesome. He has the blueprints and he knows the kids will come around when they finally get to see the finished product. He knows the kids are impatient and whiny, but he overlooks that and keeps working.


Now that is more like what is going on.

 

[Jim Schwartz]

This exchange started in response to bcdiersta's 2nd post ending in '5) politics [shouldn't be discussed here'

bcdiresta wrote: Really, I'm the instigator.*You took a cheap shot because someone said they liked my post, but I'm the instigator.*Okay.

Second, you constantly accuse me of trying to put words in your mouth because you simply can't defend your posts. *You said I was delusional to think that this project was about adding an extension, and not a teardown. Those were your words.*

The counterpoint is this - it's not delusional to think that. *Decision makers at the UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN thought that. *The. Committee brought it to pick a coach selected Les Miles, who would be more about like an. extension than a teardown. When Martin ignored those. recommendations, his first two. choices were ferentz and Schiano, again, more like extensions than teardowns. Thus, it is not delusional to think that way. *Sorry. *

You can keep trying to back away from you're own words (and I understand that, giving how poorly you choose them in the first place).*And to say that this is what UM wanted ignored the entire hiring process. *UM wanted other coaches first, coaches more in line with the old philosophy.

Also, Miles, Chiano and Ferentz aren't fictitious coaches, they are real coaches.*Who were offered real jobs. *Which is a counter to your point. *

cwpum wrote: you really are an instigator. *Of course I said tear down of tear downs, it was. *It's your application of my quote into
your argument that was wrong. *You use my quote, you then countered by listing all the coaches that WEREN"T hired to show it wasn't a teardown. *This was and always is about RR, not some ficticious coach that never coached here. *The whole discussion I had was about the coach that WAS hired, never about anyone that was NOT. *Like I said, nice try. *

Les Miles was NEVER even offered the job. *When UM hired RR, they knew they were getting *a coaching style and gameplan that was very different from LC, very different. *It was what they wanted.*

No one in college football thought that RR was a hire that system-wise was a fluid transition. *Piece after piece talked about Michigan entering the modern era of football, with the man who invented the modern-day spread, the man who Urban Meyer would call on for questions and answers. *

bcdiresta wrote: You didn't say "teardown of teardowns?" *How, exactly, is that wrong? *

cwpum wrote: thats alot of words u just put in my mouth, all of which were wrong, nice try.

bcdiresta wrote: I guess you were annoyed that someone actually liked my post.*Sometimes people like when others put thought into their posts.

Again, they tried to hire Miles,
Ferentz and Schiano. *None of those = teardown. *They scream,
extension. *You didn't bother to
answer that, but that's not
surprising. *Arguing points hasn't been one of your strong suits.

Second, we just finished 9-4,
beating the Gators in a bowl game. *You can criticize Carr and suggest we had fallen from our lofty perch, but calling it the tear down of tear downs is willful blindness, and per your usual, neglectful of actual facts.

third, it's amazing to me how often everyone here immediately blames the faction for RR's failures. *It's ridiculous that he's had to deal with internal factions and an instigating press. *But they didn't hire Shafer. *they didn't create the two worst
defenses in modern memory. *And they aren't the reason we lost to Toledo, or Illinois twice or Purdue twice. *tey aren't the reason why we are 1-5 versus our Big 3 rivals or have 3 wins in the BT. *Not all of that is on RR either, but to pretend that they are to blame, as you and others here do, is a joke. *They have complicated his efforts, but they are not the reason for the recent
failures.

Finally, it seems that just about
everyone agrees that it is put up or shut up time, except for a few souls. *I'm not sure what else there is to say about that, other than, if you honestly believe that he will be here next year if he goes 6-6, G-d bless

cwpum wrote: Bc u take things and form them to ur argument and they aren't accurate. If u think this project was adding an
extension, and not a teardown, I think u may be the delusional
one (since u are so fond of calling everyone that). This
was a case of the owner of a classic colonial style home
hiring one of the most respected modern architects in the world
to build him a house for the ages.

This was the teardown of teardowns, and while it was being built, weasel neighbors who dont like the new modern
architect (that was covetted by all architectural masses, even the most successful and respected who would call the architect for
counsel, throughout the industry from his peers to all who study
architecture) were sabotaging the foundation as well as
time-wasting items such as calling the city planner bc the
architect didn't have the proper permits. Then the same wasles
kaunched a smear campaign in the papers against the architect calling into question his values.

Pffft, wake up bc, of all the delusionals, u head the class.

 

[Jim Schwartz]

I just wish these dolts saved some of the excuses for my resuscitation project at ford field

I would kill for carr's winning seasons.

 

[HINYG8]

I can't keep track of all the issues up north....did the NCAA indicate when they would announced their decision/punishment regarding practice gate?

The wording, and the clear effort to single out RR in their report, make me wonder if they might get more than a love tap from the NCAA.

 

[MaliBuckeye]

I can't keep track of all the issues up north....did the NCAA indicate when they would announced their decision/punishment regarding practice gate?

The wording, and the clear effort to single out RR in their report, make me wonder if they might get more than a love tap from the NCAA.

Well, the hearing is in August, so I'm guessing that it would come mid season at the latest...

In other thoughts- Who was the last Big T1e1n coach fired mid season?