2008 ACC Discussion

[Fungo Squiggly]

The ACC's best team is on par with the 3rd/4th best of the b12 and SEC, imo.

There's little evidence to suggest otherwise, and a good deal of evidence to show that they can't hang with the top dogs around the nation.

And on the same note, I'd venture that the ACC's 8th/9th best team is on par with the SEC/B12's 6th/7th.

 

[HailToMichigan]

The ACC's best team is on par with the 3rd/4th best of the b12 and SEC, imo.

On the other hand, so is the ACC's 8th best team.

Wake beat Ole Miss, after all. Maryland clobbered Cal. Both were 8-4 and 4th in their conferences. Northwestern too (9-3 though)....and Duke, the ACC's worst, came thisclose to beating them. Nebraska was 8-4, 2nd in their division, and got beat by an ACC team.

Who has Alabama beaten?

Clemson?

The SEC is a barbell conference this year. Their top teams can beat nearly any team from a BCS conference and their bottom teams could lose to nearly any team from a BCS conference. I don't really think that makes a better conference than one like the ACC, which has about 7 or 8 "best teams", all of which would be third or fourth best in most other conferences. I'd rather be rooting for a team in the ACC, where all the games are meaningful and the conference isn't decided or even predictable until the games are over, than a team in the SEC where you're just praying for the juggernaut to have a bad day.

 

[jwinslow]

Wake beat Ole Miss, after all. Maryland clobbered Cal. Both were 8-4 and 4th in their conferences. Northwestern too (9-3 though)....and Duke, the ACC's worst, came thisclose to beating them. Nebraska was 8-4, 2nd in their division, and got beat by an ACC team.

I don't think any of those squads really support the prestige and alleged strength of the conferences, though. Northwestern is a blemish on the b10's prestige right now (not of their doing, but by their ranking). Being 2nd in the b12 north is like coming in second in the big east. Same with 4th in the pac-10.

The ACC might have the most depth of dangerous but mediocre teams, but it's hard to go so far as to say they're the best conference period.

 

[GaTechBuckeye]

Clemson?

....Clemson is 5th best in the Atlantic Division. To put that into perspective, that's as impressive as Alabama beating Baylor in terms of conference standing.

 

[jwinslow]

So where is the evidence that they are the best?

 

[GaTechBuckeye]

It will be played out on the field. Unlikely, but theres a good chance the ACC will be favored in all 10 matchups. Will going 10-0 in bowl games change your view of our conference?

 

[jwinslow]

Winning when favored is doing what is expected and not nearly as impressive. Going 10-0 isn't going to happen, but with these matchups, it would only prove their consistent, not great.

Your #1 team is facing the big east's champ.
Your #2 team is facing reeling LSU, who have already been established as no good by the pro-ACC arguments.
Your #3 team is facing Nebraska, who fortunately avoided Texas & Oklahoma State and only finished with 4 losses.
Your #4 team is facing Wisconsin, who barely avoided a home loss to Cal Poly and are a poor man's version of LSU 08.

None of those wins are going to earn much respect.

Wins like B10 #1 vs USC, #2 vs NC-snubbed Texas, etc... those are wins to help change perceptions. If Penn State were playing Georgia, that would be a nice win, but convince no one. America doesn't even acknowledge that the SEC has played anyone in the b10 besides OSU.

 

[GaTechBuckeye]

So where is the evidence that they are the best?

ACC In the NFL Draft

With Virginia's Chris Long and Boston College's Matt Ryan being chosen second and third in this year's NFL Draft, the Atlantic Coast Conference becomes the first Conference in the nation to have two of its student-athletes chosen among the top four picks in the NFL Draft for three consecutive years.

4-0 against the Big 12
6-4 against the SEC
Apparently those two conferences are untouchable.

Tied for the most wins against BCS Top 25 teams.

The ACC has the highest percentage of teams in college football history with a winning record.

The ACC has sent the most teams to bowl games in history...and were really close to sending an 11th.

That would be the entire Big 10 if that were to happen.

 

[HailToMichigan]

I don't think any of those squads really support the prestige and alleged strength of the conferences, though. Northwestern is a blemish on the b10's prestige right now (not of their doing, but by their ranking). Being 2nd in the b12 north is like coming in second in the big east. Same with 4th in the pac-10.

The ACC might have the most depth of dangerous but mediocre teams, but it's hard to go so far as to say they're the best conference period.

Best, no. Deepest, yes. Easily. "Better" is pretty subjective but tends to encompass both "deepest" and "has the best teams". The ACC lacks the latter but locks down the former, which to me is proof enough that at the very least, when people used to try and lump the ACC in with the Big East and the MWC, they were horribly off target.

Based on those two conditions, the Big 12 is undeniably the "best" this year. But an ACC/Big Ten football Challenge, or an ACC/SEC challenge, I think would be quite close if you matched up 1 to 1, 2 to 2, and so on. And I don't believe the Pac-10 stacks up to any of those three.

Clemson is 5th best in the Atlantic Division. To put that into perspective, that's as impressive as Alabama beating Baylor in terms of conference standing.

That's obviously misleading, especially when we're (or at least, I'm) pointing out the depth of the ACC as compared to all the other conferences. You're comparing a team that was 4-4 in a division of 4-4 and 5-3 teams, to a team that was 2-6 in a division of 7-1 teams.

 

[jwinslow]

ACC In the NFL Draft

Wonderful. Since when has NC State been winning with their elite talent?

4-0 against the Big 12
6-4 against the SEC
Apparently those two conferences are untouchable.

And this particular barometer has been shown to be incredibly misleading, and you know this.

Tied for the most wins against BCS Top 25 teams.

Where is the win that says 'man, that is a great conference'?

The ACC has the highest percentage of teams in college football history with a winning record.

Perhaps you can cuddle up with some of HTM's relatives and talk about how great Fritz Crisler was too. Irrelevant to the topic at hand - how good the ACC is now.

The ACC has sent the most teams to bowl games in history...and were really close to sending an 11th.

And the woeful 2007 Big Ten conference had 10 bowl eligible teams.

That would be the entire Big 10 if that were to happen.

We have 11 teams in our conference, buckeye.

 

[GaTechBuckeye]

That's obviously misleading, especially when we're (or at least, I'm) pointing out the depth of the ACC as compared to all the other conferences. You're comparing a team that was 4-4 in a division of 4-4 and 5-3 teams, to a team that was 2-6 in a division of 7-1 teams.[/QUOTE]

I did that on purpose :) Regardless of win - loss conference records Clemson was the 5th best team in the division. If Alabama is so good for beating Clemson...why isnt Georgia Tech?

 

[jwinslow]

Best, no. Deepest, yes. Easily. "Better" is pretty subjective but tends to encompass both "deepest" and "has the best teams". The ACC lacks the latter but locks down the former, which to me is proof enough that at the very least, when people used to try and lump the ACC in with the Big East and the MWC, they were horribly off target.

Based on those two conditions, the Big 12 is undeniably the "best" this year. But an ACC/Big Ten football Challenge, or an ACC/SEC challenge, I think would be quite close if you matched up 1 to 1, 2 to 2, and so on. And I don't believe the Pac-10 stacks up to any of those three.

I can agree to this. I would liken it to a year where the b10 has a lot of scrappy, tough ballclubs but simply lack the flash and greatness of a UNC, Duke. It may be much tougher than advertised to get through the big ten, but that doesn't make them equal, let alone superior, to the heavyweight conferences. There are often exceptions to this rule in the b10, I'm simply speaking on average.

 

[jwinslow]

I did that on purpose :) Regardless of win - loss conference records Clemson was the 5th best team in the division.

Just like you're throwing out the statistic that blows up your comparison... the W-L records that greatly differentiate between the two.

If Alabama is so good for beating Clemson...why isnt Georgia Tech?

Because they didn't stop playing football after Clemson, and certainly weren't labeled a juggernaut simply upon those achievements.

 

[GaTechBuckeye]

Wonderful. Since when has NC State been winning with their elite talent?

And this particular barometer has been shown to be incredibly misleading, and you know this.Where is the win that says 'man, that is a great conference'?

Where is any conference's win that says 'man, that is a great conference?
You're downtalking the Big East champ so I guess you're ignoring Oklahomas impressive win over them. The only other impressive non conference win all season has been USC over us (and you better believe we're going to make that right next year).

Perhaps you can cuddle up with some of HTM's relatives and talk about how great Fritz Crisler was too.Irrelevant to the topic at hand - how good the ACC is now.

How is this irrelevant? This Years ACC did something no other conference ever has.

And the woeful 2007 Big Ten conference had 10 bowl eligible teams.

We have 11 teams in our conference, buckeye.

I know there are 11 teams in our conference dude. Thanks for the reminder on last years big ten. If someone should understand how difficult that is to achieve, it should be you.

Don't forget - I bleed scarlet. If the ACC is number 1, you better believe I'm arguing the Big Ten is 2.

 

[matt_thatsme]

How can you say that Florida is not impressive? I absolutely hate the Gators, with a passion, but I have tons of respect for them. I watched them live earlier this year and they look even more impressive in person than they do on tv.
You are correct in saying that Alabama has not beaten anyone except for Clemson who was the preseason ACC favorite.
Georgia Tech is the only team in the ACC that would stand a chance against the top 3 in the SEC or top 4 in the Big 12.

The ACC is a competitive conference within itself. No way is it the best conference in college football. Like the other guy said when they have a game or two that shows the nation something ie. taking down Florida, Texas, Okla, USC, Ohio St. etc then I will be impressed.

The only thing that I has been established is that:

1. The ACC provided two players in the top 3 of the draft last year....USC had 7 players drafted in the first two rounds alone last year.

2. The bottom half of the ACC is probably better than the bottom half of any other conference.

3. If you want a fact that really shows the conference elites just look at the BCS bowl games where the only ACC team is Va. Tech which only got in due to a bowl tie in.
Big 12 --> 2 teams
Big 10 --> 2 teams
SEC --> 2 teams
Big East --> 1 team
ACC --> 1 team
PAC 10 -- > 1 team
MWC --> 1 team

I bleed scarlet & gray too, but c'mon the Big 10 isn't the 2nd best conference either, don't let your bias blind you.