Game Thread (2004) Game Eight: Penn State - 10/30/04 (W, 5-3/2-3)

[kn1f3party]

A little late now, don't ya think?!? :2004:

I'm glued to the TV on Saturdays. I step away every now and again. I had the same problem with Time Warner last year--they gave me 60 bucks back after my 3rd or 4th call. I wouldn't tolerate missing a second of a game when you pay more than $100 for the package.

 

[Jaxbuck]

How much of that is running out the clock, and how much was penalties? My guess is at least 10 of those plays were 2-3 yard runs to end the half, game, or to keep ourselves out of trouble (like on 3rd and 23). Plus, lots of penalties, especially on some big gains. Without those two holding calls, that's at least a 60 yard swing. So.... that'd be almost 5 yards a play, and nobody would be complaining. Stats are great, but you have to reason them out to mean anything.

Quite the opposite, the stats will average all those things out...you can't pick and choose what "counts" and what "doesn't". Opinions aside the bottom line is thats what actually transpired today and it fits the pattern of what has happend all year. Troy Smith kneeling for a 1yd loss before the half doesn't exactly skew the numbers.

 

[cincibuck]

Today watching OSU -PSU was like watching Indiana - Northwestern in previous years. Does anyone else think this defense needs to learn how to tackle, or were they just out on the field too long again? Thank God for the early big plays.

 

[sandgk]

kn1f - agreed.
When I was living outside the automatic ABC/ESPN coverage area I had the equivalent of Time-warner's gameplan with whatever government sponsored monopoly fed cable into my living room. Always had trouble, games meant to be on never were on, games were continually interrupted by technical glitches. Blame placed on the customer by the provider. Many calls to provider got full refund and a "please don't bad mouth us and we'll give you the rest of the season (by then 5 games) for free". Oh yes, this was '98 - not a good year to lose track IMHO. Cable companies are todays communists. Screw 'em.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Sorry, those stats were unnoficial. Here is the damage from the official site:

<pre> Team Statistics (Final)
2004 Ohio State Football
Penn State vs Ohio State (Oct 30, 2004 at Columbus, Ohio)

PSU OSU

FIRST DOWNS................... 18 13
Rushing..................... 12 8
Passing..................... 5 4
Penalty..................... 1 1
NET YARDS RUSHING............. 177 143
Rushing Attempts............ 50 44
Average Per Rush............ 3.5 3.2
Yards Gained Rushing........ 218 172
Yards Lost Rushing.......... 41 29
NET YARDS PASSING............. 69 59
Completions-Attempts-Int.... 7-22-2 6-8-0
Average Per Attempt......... 3.1 7.4
Average Per Completion...... 9.9 9.8
TOTAL OFFENSE YARDS........... 246 202
Total offense plays......... 72 52
Average Gain Per Play....... 3.4 3.9
Fumbles: Number-Lost.......... 3-0 2-2
Penalties: Number-Yards....... 3-18 8-47
PUNTS-YARDS................... 6-303 4-156
Average Yards Per Punt...... 50.5 39.0
Net Yards Per Punt.......... 34.5 43.0
Inside 20................... 2 2
50+ Yards................... 2 0
Touchbacks.................. 0 0
Fair catch.................. 1 0
KICKOFFS-YARDS................ 3-165 4-251
Average Yards Per Kickoff... 55.0 62.8
Net Yards Per Kickoff....... 23.0 59.0
Touchbacks.................. 0 3
Punt returns: Number-Yards-TD. 1--16-0 3-96-1
Average Per Return.......... -16.0 32.0
Kickoff returns: Number-Yds-TD 1-15-0 3-96-0
Average Per Return.......... 15.0 32.0
Interceptions: Number-Yds-TD.. 0-0-0 2-59-1
Fumble Returns: Number-Yds-TD. 0-0-0 0-0-0
Miscellaneous Yards........... 0 0
Possession Time............... 32:44 27:16
1st Quarter................. 12:11 2:49
2nd Quarter................. 8:51 6:09
3rd Quarter................. 4:44 10:16
4th Quarter................. 6:58 8:02
Third-Down Conversions........ 8 of 18 7 of 12
Fourth-Down Conversions....... 1 of 2 0 of 0
Red-Zone Scores-Chances....... 2-2 1-1
Sacks By: Number-Yards........ 3-22 3-17
PAT Kicks..................... 1-1 3-3
Field Goals................... 1-1 0-1

</pre>

 

[Savante]

Quite the opposite, the stats will average all those things out...you can't pick and choose what "counts" and what "doesn't". Opinions aside the bottom line is thats what actually transpired today and it fits the pattern of what has happend all year. Troy Smith kneeling for a 1yd loss before the half doesn't exactly skew the numbers.

They should average that out, but we had an exceptional number of mental mistakes this week, especially on the holding. When the play should be for 20+ yards, and it ends up going -10, it does indeed factor in. I was there, so I don't know the stats, but I'd guess we had probably 60, 70 yars of offensive penalties alone. If we don't have those and Smith and Teddy's big runs count, the stats will look a lot better, I guarantee.

And yeah, it does skew the numbers. A -1 loss means that to cancel it out, you need to gain 8 yards on the next play. Sure, the average will eventually bump up if we keep rolling, and sure, a -1 loss doesn't mean that much, but again, look at the swing. What'd Ted gain, 30 yards on that run? And it was actually a net -10 yard run. If there's no holding, that one specific play bumps the average up to almost 5 yards a play.

We're not USC, but we did a nice job of moving the ball. In situations like 3rd and 23, and 1st and goal from the 1, when we have a lot more to lose with a fuckup than we do to gain, be conservative, I don't care. We moved the ball nicely most of the day, and without penalties and mental mistakes (Ted running without the ball), we'd have more points and more yards. Without Smith's fumble, I bet we get at least 3. Nuge would have made that kick without the horrible snap. On, and on, and on. We moved the ball, scored points and should have scored more. But it was a performance to be happy about, we scored bunch of points against a tough Penn State D that wasn't on the field too much. If our defense totally shut them down, and we can't grind it out, fine, but we scored twice without the O touching the ball, meaning we didn't get to wear them down. But I'm sure that even if we scored when Pittman fumbled, and Nuge hit that kick, people would still be upset. I'm not. We won a tough Big Ten game.

You can't just throw stats out there. You honestly need to look at them fairly. How many of Penn State's yards come from their late drives that we play loose so as not to give up the big play? I mean, yes, it happened, but a lot of it is circumstantial. We got penalized a LOT more than Penn State, especially on offense, so our YPP will be lower. We also moved the ball consistently, instead of having deep bombs. I'm happy with that. I'll run 3 plays for 3.6 yards a play every time, because... that's a first down. Hmm. Even with penalties and running out the clock. Excellent.

Oh, and I forgot the most important stat of all....

OHIO STATE: 21
Penn State: 10

Edit:

Average Per Attempt......... 3.1 7.4

Average Per Completion...... 9.9 9.8</pre>

That ain't bad at all.

 

[StoRMinBrutus]

Does anybody know what the Pepto Bismol and Tums stock prices are?? I am going to start Investing NOW because I am positive that the profits here in Ohio are going through the roof with how the Offense and Coach Tressl is keeping games so close. I still love the Buckeyes and have faith but My stomach still hurts.

Those penalties at critical times sure were a pisser too DAMNIT !!!

 

[brutus2002]

I agree with Savante. We had 4 first downs called back because of holding. A fumble that would have certainly been at least a FG and a blocked FG.

WE ONLY THREW THE BALL 8 TIMES. PSU knew we were gonna run it and we still had some success. To run like we did against that defense was impressive. PSU had 20 more offensive plays than we did. Believe it or not that makes a difference.

The whole second half we were ultra conservative. If you don't think this offense has improved your head is staright up your ass.

The offensive line is coming around. Hopefully we can improve every week. We will see. I like the running dimension that Troy Smith brings to the table.

 

[Jaxbuck]

You can't just throw stats out there. You honestly need to look at them fairly. How many of Penn State's yards come from their late drives that we play loose so as not to give up the big play? I mean, yes, it happened, but a lot of it is circumstantial.

Looking at them fairly is exactly what I am doing. Playing the wouldda, couddla, shoullda, if but only game is what you are doing.

It gets back to sample size and 8 games into a season is a large enough sample to draw from. I'm not going to turn this into a debate/lecture on statistical theory but trust me, todays numbers accurately reflect just how truely pathetic this offense really is.

I bring it up only as closure on a previous debate as to whether our O and PSU's O were about the same caliber. I don't think any rational human can say ours is significantly better at this point.

 

[StoRMinBrutus]

The fact that bothers me most is OSU had at best one, maybe two, effective drives and too boot they had a short field to help on that one occasion. OSU has got to get the defense off the field and start establishing some good clock eatting drives to demoralize the opposing teams defenses.
-OSU's defense has got to do better on 3rd downs.
-STOP the CRITICAL penalties too!!
I do still have faith though ... GO BUCKEYES !!! WE WON !!!

 

[Savante]

Looking at them fairly is exactly what I am doing. Playing the wouldda, couddla, shoullda, if but only game is what you are doing.

Yeah, okay. I'm RATIONALIZING the stats. I'm saying "okay, this is why this happened". There's a reason we didn't have a big offensive game -- before we even really got a drive going, we already had 14 points! We moved the ball nicely and if you can't see that , I can't help you. Our number of 3 and outs was down. We moved the ball fairly nicely. Smith throws a nice ball and he didn't even really have to. I honestly don't understand why you're so frustrated that we won a game with our defense and special teams.

Things are circumstantial. I look at WHY stats exist, you don't. That's fine. You say "look, we only got 3.8 yards per play", I say "we didn't run a ton of plays". I say "our offense was stuck at its own one for a drive". I say "many of our big plays were either on special teams, or called back because of a penalty. We moved the ball nicely and we made some plays. Unfortunately, they didn't all count. It's life, it's football. Next week, if we go out there and all the plays we make count, I bet you're in here complaining that we only scored 30, instead of 60010410240120.

It gets back to sample size and 8 games into a season is a large enough sample to draw from. I'm not going to turn this into a debate/lecture on statistical theory but trust me, todays numbers accurately reflect just how truely pathetic this offense really is.

I think that you should be happy we won solidly. I think that everyone who complains after the clear improvement our offense has is insane. Mo Hall looked great out there, so did Troy. 6/8 with two drops? No kidding. His passes are light years ahead of Zwick's at the time, and he's the perfect QB for our offense -- mobile but can throw the out. I'm so lost as to why we're unhappy about a solid victory against a tough team. Oh, and I think you should, with a young team, take each game as it comes. Improvement is clearly happening.

I bring it up only as closure on a previous debate as to whether our O and PSU's O were about the same caliber. I don't think any rational human can say ours is significantly better at this point.

Smith had one less completion than Robinson in 14 less passes. Almost the same yards per completion, but THREE TIMES his yards per attempt. Robinson is a mobile quarterback that's hard to sack, and he's also got experience at avoiding a rush that Troy doesn't. Still, we only gave up, what, 2 sacks today? We moved the ball nicely and had some good things turned back by penalties and mental mistakes. Against Iowa, we didn't even do that. It's clearly improving. I'd say Penn State's D is at least as good as Iowa's, and we consistently moved the ball and outclassed our opponent. WHAT IS SO WRONG WITH THAT? I don't understand. We beat an opponent solidly, and the game result was never in doubt, so why complain? We don't need to beat a team by 50 for a solid victory.

 

[brutus2002]

What the fuck is so hard to understand. When you have a ko return for a td and an interception for a td its 2 series that your offense doesn't get. We ran an ultra conservative offense in the second half.

look at the individual rushing numbers. Hall had 5 yards a carry on the second best defense in the B10.

Some fans just don't understand.

 

[Jaxbuck]

Jesus Christ..go back and read what started this whole fucking thread. I stated that PSU and OSU had nearly similar offenses, they both suck balls, but coming into this game PSU had a bit better passing stats. I'll concede the second part to just let this motherfucker die but there is no way you can argue the first.

I am not bitching about a W, I am not saying there was no improvement and I am not saying the running game didn't actually looked decent from time to time today. Quit trying to speak for me and focus on what I am actually saying.

Again, my original point is that OSU and PSU have nearly equally shitty offenses. After seeing Robinson as their starter I would say they are in worse shape than us.


As far as stats go, this could go on forever. You simply cant pick numbers that fit your theory and throw out what doesn't. How do we know TG runs for 30 yds if the guy doesn't hold a PSU player? How do you know TS doesn't get a pick 6 for a TD if they give us Pittmans fumble back? See what I am saying? Its too subjective, its not scientific.

I look at the numbers and see the reality of a situation if the sample size is large enough "we played conservative once we had a lead" type stuff evens out. Did we get conservative for the whole game vs Iowa as well? Whats the excuse for NCSU? How about 2nd half Marshall? Are we going to take the good as norm and make excuses for the bad forever? It just doesn't work that way. The numbers do not lie in a large enough sample size.

 

[StoRMinBrutus]

Brutus2002/Savante,
You guys know I always try to be positive when it comes to our Buckeyes and I totally understand what your saying but they didn't exactly blow anyone away on offense when they were in there. Yes they were ok but there was only 1, maybe 2 good drive in that game for Ohio State. That's cause for concern. They can't play like that against MSU, Purdue and tsun and expect the same results. I also understand when punt returns and the defense scores; that's less time for the Offense to be out there but they have to find ways when they are out there to get some more long drives somehow someway. At least more than 2.
On the flip side OSU's defense needs to step it up on preventing 1st downs at critical times when it's 3rd and long.
Does that mean I totally agree with our resident statistician Jax (j/k Jax), no, but the Offense and Defense needs to grow alot more this year and cut out those critical penalties. There were some positives though like you said. I welcome any info that would "enlighten" me though ...
Alls that matters is Ohio State WON though!!!! WooooHooooo

 

[brutus2002]

WE WERE PLAYING ONE OF THE BEST DEFENSES IN THE COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!!!! tHE ONLY SCHOOL THAT HAS SCORED THAT MANY POINTS AGAINST THEM WAS BC.


Once again we played the whole second half conservatively. We had a RB run for 5 yards a carry against that defense.

We will not face a better defense the rest of the season!!!