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Yankee-Killers

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Bitchandmope: "Yeah, right. I don't watch the MLB playoffs because I'm a Pirates fan."

No. You don't watch every Yankee game, or every Yankee-Red Sox game. I do. Move up here, get the YES Network, the Local News, the Local Papers, and then come & talk to me.

"But to say it was because of cumulative beanings over the years is laughable."

The beanings were a factor, dope! You know what a lot of Red Sox players said was the turning point of the Series? In Game 4 or Game 5 when they threw at Matsui's head. He got out of the way of the pitch, but after they put him on his ass, he didn't hit again for the rest of the Series. And he absolutely KILLED the Red Sox in the first 3 games.

In the last year and a half, Jeter has been hit 8 times by Boston! Eight times!

"How many of last year's Red Sox were Red Sox 5 years ago? Ortiz? Nope. Millar? Nope. Damon? Nope. Mueller? Nope. Arroyo? Nope. Schilling? Nope. Foulke? Nope. Bellhorn? Nope."

Dum-Dum. The culture in the Red Sox clubhouse has been to fear the Yankees for 86 years! Why were the '49 and '78 Red Sox afraid of the Yanks? There's no common players there!

"Now I'm supposed to believe that Piazza's decline versus Clemens is a result of the beaning."

Believe whatever you want. You have no idea what you're talking about, you're a moron, and now you're so obsessed with me that you clutch at straws (with useless Piazza lifetime stats - what that has to do with Clemens is beyond me) to try and make a point against me.

15 ABs is plenty of a sample to make a Batter vs. Pitcher Comparison. Especially if the batter is like 9 for 15 with 3 dongs against said pitcher.

sears3820: "I'm just afraid of what would transpire after the beaning, especially if it was up around the squash."

Hey, I just hope they give him a bow-tie. I don't want any pitches to hit Ortiz in the head or anything like that. And as far as afterwards, a little scuffle never hurt anybody.

bb73: "It's so easy for AL pitchers to throw at guys, since the DH keeps them from ever stepping up to the plate themselves."

This cry from National League fans is complete bullshit.

bb, those're the rules. Throwing at batters (see Ortiz example) is a MUST in baseball. AL Pitchers can't force themselves into the box after they hit someone just to prove their manhood. And besides, pitchers have nothing to fear: in the NL, if a star player gets hit, you retailate against the other team's star player, not the pitcher. That's not really a fair trade, you know? How many pitchers do you see in the NL that get hit in retailation?
 
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Sloopy45 said:
Bitchandmope: "Yeah, right. I don't watch the MLB playoffs because I'm a Pirates fan."

No. You don't watch every Yankee game, or every Yankee-Red Sox game. I do. Move up here, get the YES Network, the Local News, the Local Papers, and then come & talk to me.
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Bitchandmope, eh? They're so cute at that age.

By the way, I watched the YES Network last night. I can't believe they can't afford some better announcers, although given your propensity to whine maybe listening to them piss and moan about Matsui losing the ROTY to Berroa two years ago appeals to Yanks fans.

So your point re: beanballs over a period of years ends curses is supported by the fact that you read, presumably, the Boston Globe and New York Times.

Okie-dokie.

"But to say it was because of cumulative beanings over the years is laughable."
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The beanings were a factor, dope! You know what a lot of Red Sox players said was the turning point of the Series? In Game 4 or Game 5 when they threw at Matsui's head. He got out of the way of the pitch, but after they put him on his ass, he didn't hit again for the rest of the Series. And he absolutely KILLED the Red Sox in the first 3 games.

In the last year and a half, Jeter has been hit 8 times by Boston! Eight times!
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Dope, eh? You really need to get some thicker skin, kid.

I imagine after such a monumental collapse the Mercenaries were putting forth all sorts of excuses, but how does that support your cumulative effect theory, wherein the "curse" was changed by the Bosox adopting the Clemens-Piazza theory, over a period of time? It's bad enough you concoct a ridiculously simplified theory, you don't even apply it consistently.

"How many of last year's Red Sox were Red Sox 5 years ago? Ortiz? Nope. Millar? Nope. Damon? Nope. Mueller? Nope. Arroyo? Nope. Schilling? Nope. Foulke? Nope. Bellhorn? Nope."
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Dum-Dum. The culture in the Red Sox clubhouse has been to fear the Yankees for 86 years! Why were the '49 and '78 Red Sox afraid of the Yanks? There's no common players there!
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And, of course, you know the '49 Sox and '78 Sox were "afraid" of the Yanks because of a curse, and anyone who disputes that notion is a "dum-dum". Likewise, the Sox only overcame this decades long fear by beaning Jeter 8 times. Got it.

That's your rebuttal? I'm becoming increasingly embarrassed to have you as part of Buckeye Nation. Michigan fans must spin you around in circles just for kicks.

"Now I'm supposed to believe that Piazza's decline versus Clemens is a result of the beaning."
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Believe whatever you want. You have no idea what you're talking about, you're a moron, and now you're so obsessed with me that you clutch at straws (with useless Piazza lifetime stats - what that has to do with Clemens is beyond me) to try and make a point against me.
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It comes as no surprise that the connection of Piazza's decline versus everyone as it relates to his decline versus Clemens during the same time frame is beyond you, so I'll spell it out for you. Unfortunately, I can't use a crayon here, but maybe if I type slowly some of it might penetrate your thick skull.

Piazza has struggled versus EVERYONE since 2000, not just Clemens. I believe age/injuries, leading to decreased bat speed through the zone, have had a lot more to do with it than one fucking beaning, but God knows I'm a "moron" and you're an expert, so that can't possibly be right. After all, you've provided so much evidence, aka none, to support your enlightened view. Silly me, I actually relied on five years of statistics and history.

Congratulations! You've just been inducted into the Internet Idiot Hall of Fame, as one of stupidest SOBs I've had the pleasure to encounter. What makes you part of this exclusive club is that not only are you a collossal dipshit, you have a grossly inflated view of your own knowledge at the same time. By all means, keep talking out of your ass and never, ever, let little things like facts, history and statistics stand in your way, especially when "curses" are easily available.

What a dumbass...:roll2:
 
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MeIsADope: "I can't believe they can't afford some better announcers, although given your propensity to whine maybe listening to them piss and moan about Matsui losing the ROTY to Berroa two years ago appeals to Yanks fans."

The Yankee announcers are bad, I agree. Steinbrenner has a propensity for putting marks in his booth, so the quality of the broadcast suffers. Over the years, the Yanks have really only had two good announce teams: Rizzuto-Bill White on WPIX Channel 11, and John Sterling-Michael Kay on the radio. I believe the announcers last night were Kay & Kenny Singleton.

And BTW, Matsui did get rooked for ROY that season. Not that I care too much or that it matters, but its a fact. If Hidecki Matsui played for any other team he would've won in a landslide.

"I imagine after such a monumental collapse the Mercenaries were putting forth all sorts of excuses"

It was the Red Sox who offered that opinion, not the Yankees. Look up Matsui's stats in the Series before and after the chin music.

"That's your rebuttal? I'm becoming increasingly embarrassed to have you as part of Buckeye Nation. Michigan fans must spin you around in circles just for kicks."

Actually, my point is bean balls are A FACTOR in intimidating a team, and putting some fear in a hitter. You say they aren't.

You're clutching at straws again.

And please, I'm not a part of "Buckeye Nation," "Yankee Nation," or any other stupid term like that. I am a proud graduate of the Ohio State University, and a die-hard fan of our football program.

And actually, my rep has been to destroy scUM fans, Miami fans (back in the day), and ignorant nobodies w/ a fettish for me (like you). In fact, you're getting really buried on this thread. Are you sure you weren't crazyforthecanes back in the day? You post the same useless stats that he did .. he hated me too.

"I'm a "moron" and you're an expert, so that can't possibly be right."

Correct.

"Piazza has struggled versus EVERYONE since 2000, not just Clemens."

So its complete coincidence (old age, etc.) that he killed Clemens (and everyone else for that matter), but since the exact moment of the beaning he is out of his prime? I think you just made my point for me.

Is there any more useless drivel you want to post?
 
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B-UNIT: "The Yankees suck and all there fans are bandwagon whinning bastards!"

B-UNIT sucks and he should go back to 1st Grade to learn the appropriate uses of 'there,' 'their', & 'they're.'

Somehow I think you went to the type of school that taught you how to use 'thar.'
 
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StupidIQ=45 said:
"Piazza has struggled versus EVERYONE since 2000, not just Clemens."

So its complete coincidence (old age, etc.) that he killed Clemens (and everyone else for that matter), but since the exact moment of the beaning he is out of his prime? I think you just made my point for me.
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Right, and it has snowed since 2000, so we can trace that back to the Clemens beaning as well. Hell, I bet the Buckeyes won the national title in 2002 because Clemens beaned Mike Piazza. At least I know the sun will rise tomorrow, thanks to Clemens beaning Piazza.

There have been thousands of major leaguers whose production declined as they went from age 31 to age 36, and missed about 200 games due to injury during that time. All these years, "morons" like me thought age was catching up to them, and that their skills diminished as their bodies wore down. Turns out, it was just a "coincidence".

Alas, it took a genius like you to locate the exact moment in time that began their demise - a beaning. Not their first beaning, mind you, but a magic beaning that is the beginning of the end. Hey, since you pinpointed which beaning did Piazza in, maybe you can tell us which beaning took out some other former All Stars.

Which beaning led to Willie Mays' doom? And how about Hank Aaron, which beaning ruined him? And, of course, Mickey Mantle and Don Mattingly. Surely, a diehard Yankee fan, with such a remarkable skill, can tell us exactly when they received their magic beaning. After all, age and injuries had nothing to do with it - those are just "coincidences".
 
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IDroppedTheSoap (in the Prison Shower): "There have been thousands of major leaguers whose production declined as they went from age 31 to age 36"

I never said age wasn't A FACTOR in Piazza's decline. Again, you're so freeking desperate to dispute my point that you're ignoring what I said. I said (repeat for the 100th time) the beaning was A FACTOR, not the be-all, end-all. Was it the major reason for his decline? Probably not. But I do know this: he used to eat Clemens' lunch before the beaning & he hasn't done jack shit against Clemens since. Its a simple inference (one that you obviously can't make). Similar to the connection between lung cancer and smoking: we have no concrete medical evidence of that, but the instance of lung cancer is higher in smokers, so we can say with reasonable certainty that it does indeed cause lung cancer.

As far as Piazza's overall decline since then is concerned, there are plenty of factors: age, the position he plays, his team sucked after 2000, etc.

"Hey, since you pinpointed which beaning did Piazza in, maybe you can tell us which beaning took out some other former All Stars."

Actually, Piazza has been beamed many times in his career, but only once in his head (that time). Piazza recieved a concussion, went to the hospital, and missed a week after that pitch. I'd venture to say that's a bit different than any other beaning he's had in his career, wouldn't you?

So, to reiterate: the beaning was A FACTOR not the only factor. If you can't read this (which I'm really having my doubts about at this point), please get your wife, kids, neighbor, whoever is close to you to come to your computer and read this for you.
 
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Sloopy45 said:
And actually, my rep has been to destroy scUM fans, Miami fans (back in the day), and ignorant nobodies w/ a fettish for me (like you). In fact, you're getting really buried on this thread. Are you sure you weren't crazyforthecanes back in the day? You post the same useless stats that he did .. he hated me too.
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You're calling b-unit an idiot, but I'd proof my own posts before I say things like that because it's spelled: FETISH.

In the spirit of the National Spelling Bee, I'd like to use it in a sentence: Jeter has an A-Rod fetish.

The beanings were a factor, dope! You know what a lot of Red Sox players said was the turning point of the Series? In Game 4 or Game 5 when they threw at Matsui's head. He got out of the way of the pitch, but after they put him on his ass, he didn't hit again for the rest of the Series. And he absolutely KILLED the Red Sox in the first 3 games.

In the last year and a half, Jeter has been hit 8 times by Boston! Eight times!

How come Jeter is still the one who kills the Sox more than anyone? According to your logic he should be batting below the Mendoza Line against the Sox. And what would you point to as the downfall of A-Rod and Sheff in that same series because their bats also went silent in the last four games? I'd call it the real Red Sox team actually manifesting itself, with some character sprinkled in there.

I think the great hitters/players will not be affected by being hit, though getting hit in the head can sometimes change things (see Tony C). In this case, however, I think wear and tear for Piazza was the main factor in his slower swing, and thus lower numbers.
 
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thenumber7 said:
The beanings were a factor, dope! You know what a lot of Red Sox players said was the turning point of the Series? In Game 4 or Game 5 when they threw at Matsui's head. He got out of the way of the pitch, but after they put him on his ass, he didn't hit again for the rest of the Series. And he absolutely KILLED the Red Sox in the first 3 games.

In the last year and a half, Jeter has been hit 8 times by Boston! Eight times!

How come Jeter is still the one who kills the Sox more than anyone? According to your logic he should be batting below the Mendoza Line against the Sox. And what would you point to as the downfall of A-Rod and Sheff in that same series because their bats also went silent in the last four games? I'd call it the real Red Sox team actually manifesting itself, with some character sprinkled in there.

I think the great hitters/players will not be affected by being hit, though getting hit in the head can sometimes change things (see Tony C). In this case, however, I think wear and tear for Piazza was the main factor in his slower swing, and thus lower numbers.
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Now don't confuse Stupy by pointing out the contradictions of his own points. Besides, he's switched gears twice already in this thread, so what's another lane change in the face of evidence that shoots his argument to hell?
 
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thenumber7 said:
How come Jeter is still the one who kills the Sox more than anyone? According to your logic he should be batting below the Mendoza Line against the Sox. .
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Surprisingly Jeter is batting .219 against the Sox in that time period. Not the Mendoza, but pretty darn close. I tend to believe it's more a matter of hitting against Schilling and Pedro being the reason and not the beanings. Against this current crop of Boston pitchers he's hitting .265. His avg last year against them was a Mendoza-like .200.
 
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Brutus1 said:
Surprisingly Jeter is batting .219 against the Sox in that time period. Not the Mendoza, but pretty darn close. I tend to believe it's more a matter of hitting against Schilling and Pedro being the reason and not the beanings. Against this current crop of Boston pitchers he's hitting .265. His avg last year against them was a Mendoza-like .200.
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Meanwhile, he's batting .291 overall (.292 last year), meaning he's still hitting about .300 against the rest of the league (he's a career .314 hitter). This is what distinguishes him from the Mike Piazza example.

Jeter has been struggling against Boston; Piazza has been struggling against everyone. This is why the argument of how the Sox are pitching Jeter is affecting him makes sense, and the notion that Clemens ruined Piazza's career in 2000/01 is asinine.

A turnip can figure out why Piazza's numbers have declined - for the same reason virtually ALL players tend to decline as they approach the end of their career - age and diminishing skills, often exacerbated by injuries.
 
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