Who's offense was that!!??

[AnnArborBuck]

Zwick hurt his thumb?

From what I have heard, on the play first fumble play (after the Bam TD was called back) he hit his thumb on a cinci helmet. Zwick was shaking his hand quite a bit, it looked like it could have been hurt, or maybe he was just trying to shake the sweat off his hand. You would have to think that between the very hot and humid weather, and it being his first start in one of the largest stadiums in the country, he might of had some sweaty hands. I for one thought he looke pretty good.

 

[exhawg]

Here's what I saw of the QB play. Zwick looked good, but did have some mistakes that will get cleared up over the next couple games. From what I heard he never hurt his hand, and the only problem that he had was that his hand was too sweaty. The first int was because of this although he did hit his hand on a blocker so it might have affected the follow through. He said in the post-game that the ball slipped out and it went long instead of short. The second int looked like he tried to thread the needle and the ball got tipped. This is similar to the amazing pass that he threw to Bam for a big gain. That ball was almost picked but it made it through the tiniest of openings for a big gain.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Zwick needs to do a better job of protecting the ball when he runs. That fumble was unacceptable. I also don't think that they should call QB draws for him. I think he can run well when the play breaks down but I don't want to see him trying to be a RB back there. The bad CQ exchange was Mangold’s fault. I think he was having a hard time holding on to the ball as well. He never got the ball off the ground on that one. On the fumble that Zwick lost a DL got a hand on it when he was getting read to throw. That happens to every QB at some point. Was it the LSU game where the exact same thing happened and they called it an incomplete pass?<o:p></o:p>

Smith was 3-4, but 0-1 when the game was in question. He looks like a good backup, but I doubt that he would be more productive than Zwick over a whole game. By the 4<SUP>th</SUP> quarter Cincy’s D was completely worn out and couldn’t stop anything. We were running at will and the pass wasn’t any more difficult. I will give Smith props on that great pass to Holmes. That’s what we will need out of him. I would like to see Smith on the field with Zwick a couple plays a game.

 

[zincfinger]

I wish I had selected the right channel at the sports bar I was at when recording the game so I could recap Ross' first running attempts. If I remember correctly, we were -1 yard rushing at the end of the first quarter. Read that again...fuckin' -1 yard rushing. Regardless of the fact he finished with 141 yards, take that 68-yard run away and he's a 3-yard-a-run-if-lucky running back, like last year. Our OL played decently, but still needs some polish (that's expected, though, as nearly the entire line is new). The running game as a whole was a little bit better than last year's, but nowhere near "10 times better".

Like you, Mili, I was concerned with Lydell early on. But in the final analysis, I think his performance deserves more credit than you're giving him. A few points: 1) take away Lydell's 68 yd. burst and he still had nearly 4.6 ypc. That's pretty decent. 2) the O-line started the game poorly, with defenders routinely getting into the backfield quickly. When the O-line started to play somewhat respectably, whether it was due to their improvement or due to the Bearcats' withering (which I think remains to be determined), OSU was able to run the ball pretty well. 3) Most big games by a running back (and 141 yds. is a fairly big game) probably have at least one long run. While I see the logic of your argument, I don't think it's completely fair to discount the fact that he did have a 68 yard carry.

Overall, I thought the running game was improved over a a running game that was decent for the second half of last season. And I look to the O-line as the ultimate determinant of whether it will continue to be so against bigger run-stopping defenses later this season.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Here's Ross' carry-by-carry stats:

1 Qtr
rush over right tackle for 1 yard
pitch out left for 3 yards
pitch out left for 2 yards

2 Qtr
rush over right end for loss of 1 yard
rush over right tackle for 68 yards
rush up middle for 3 yards
rush over right tackle for 4 yards
rush over right end for 2 yards

3 Qtr
rush over left end for no gain
rush over right guard for 3 yards (aside from the 68-yard run, he's 9 carries for 17 yards until this point)
rush over right end for 18 yards
rush up middle for 1 yard

4 Qtr
rush over left end for 9 yards
rush over left end for 6 yards
rush up middle for 8 yards
rush over right tackle for 1 yard
rush up middle for 13 yards

He had one other big run in the game (18 yards near the end of the third quarter), and had one solid series (the drive which ended with the TD pass to Holmes, and in which he had all five of his carries for the fourth quarter for 37 yards).

These stats were taken from the play-by-play summary on the official OSU site.

 

[scooter1369]

Barry Sanders was known for his "spikes". He would carry for 4 yards, 3 yards, 5 yards, 78 yards, 3 yards, 2 yards, 6 yards, 2 yards, 50 yards....

You get the picture. Lydell will improve as the season goes. He just put up over 140 yards against a Mark Dantonio defense that is laden with seniors and experience. It should do wonders for his confidence just as his 160 yard performance did last year against Indiana.

Now that he knows there are holes to hit, maybe he'll hit them with authority like he did when he was a frosh.

I say he gets 1200-1300 yards this year and 15 TD's.

Don't take this as a comparison to Barry Sanders. This is a comparison to how stats are compiled. If you excluded long runs from every back's stats, the numbers would be very low indeed in Canton.

"If you take away his 68 yard run...." What good does that do. Hell, take away his one yard loss and his average soars. It works both ways.

 

[AKAK]

Barry Sanders was known for his "spikes". He would carry for 4 yards, 3 yards, 5 yards, 78 yards, 3 yards, 2 yards, 6 yards, 2 yards, 50 yards....

And that was the problem.. if you want to call it that... with Barry.

I'll be honest... there is on ething I want to see out of Lydell.. and that's consistency when he runs on first down... 3 to 5 yards every time would be fine then... If he can do that and then give us big chunks once in a while that's just a bonus.

Hey.... at least we're trying to run outside... that was one of those big eye openers I've been waiting for.

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

3 to 5 yards every time would be fine then

is that ALL you want?

 

[AKAK]

Yes.. that is all...

Oh my bad... this guy's name is Lydell... not Eddie.

My point is that 68 yard runs don't mean a damn thing if we spend the rest of the series' 2nd and 10....

I'll be the first to say we need to mix it up on 1st down... but we have a first year starting QB, and a senior Tailback...it might not be fair, but I'd say the Senior Tailback needs to step up.

 

[wdg01]

Well, i watched the game again....and I think the running game (Ross) actually is starting to get better. Just be be fair to Ross, here are Pittmans numbers. If you say that Ross didnt run well, then Pittman didn't either with 2 long runs really skewing the stats. Also notice who was more consistent during the 4Q against a "worn out defense".

Pittmans rushing 2Q
Rush over left guard for 5 yards
Rush over right guard for no gain

Pittmans rushing 4Q
Rush up the middle for 1 yard
Rush over right end for 21 yards
Rush over right guard for 2 yards
Rush over right tackle for -1 yards
Rush over left end for 38 yards

 

[zincfinger]

Good point, wdg - and that being said, I think Mililani has a point as well: there still is some cause for concern, particularly when we get to playing some of the bigger run-stuffing defenses in the BigTen. However, I think that the inconsistency we had in the running game - in terms of mixing a few long runs with multiple unproductive runs - was more attributable to the O-line than to the tailbacks. Specifically with Lydell, I felt that most of the times that he got stuffed, he had absolutely nowhere to go. In general, I believe that AT LEAST 50% of the credit should go to the O-line when the running game is working well, and at least 50% of the questioning should go up front when it isn't.

 

[coxew]

I like this new math where we can start picking and choosing which runs to include when breaking down a players performance. I'm not a big fan of Ross like many others but you can't exclude the 68 yard just as you can't pull out Pittman's two longer runs. These were actual plays that did happen. What do you want to see, a bunch of two and three yard runs? The Barry Sanders analogy is a good one. No one here would even think of comparing Lydell to Barry but he did lose more yards than any other RB in NFL history and is still one of the all time greats. Should the Hall of Fame voters plucked out all of his 50+ yard runs and leave him with a bunch of negatives to go with one and two yard carries?

 

[wdg01]

I'm not a big fan of Ross like many others but you can't exclude the 68 yard just as you can't pull out Pittman's two longer runs. These were actual plays that did happen

Exactly

 

[browndawgsteve]

I though Lydell did OK. Everone knows Dantonio was going to try and make the QB beat us and we all know how he is famous with his halftime adjustments. Ross did better in the second half due to the passing game(I believe no INTs until after halftime) and the fatigue of Cincy defense not because he was running any better. When we play a team that has quality depth and a good secondary, Ross is going to struggle even more. He just seems stiff to me. Did anyone think that Tony just looked fluid running the ball. He just looked comfortable back their, even on the plays he was stopped. I think Ross will have a good year, but he has to improve hitting the hole and the vision has to improve. We do not play Cincy every week. JT will play his captain and give him ample amount of chances to succeed. As of right now I like Pittman better, but I think I will wait and see how both do in the NC State game to make a final determination. Ross just seems to be stuck in the middle of the old formula and the new formula. We finally see what Tressel is trying to build on the line and lets look at the RBs Tressel is going to: Pittman, Wells, Ringer, Haw(Ok bigger, but has excellent speed), Clarett you can exclude he was a freak of nature. Seems to me they want backs that hit the sideline and go. If they are big then good, but they better have the outside speed. Yes you take a Stewart or C. Wells when they come here, but I think these other backs are the backs to get used to. Even the FBs are starting to get smaller. Joe losing weight, using Stan White as a H-back. I think 215 will be a big TB back for us from now on. 205-210 looks about right to me. Could just be me.

 

[Unizan]

I like this new math where we can start picking and choosing which runs to include when breaking down a players performance. I'm not a big fan of Ross like many others but you can't exclude the 68 yard just as you can't pull out Pittman's two longer runs. These were actual plays that did happen. What do you want to see, a bunch of two and three yard runs? The Barry Sanders analogy is a good one. No one here would even think of comparing Lydell to Barry but he did lose more yards than any other RB in NFL history and is still one of the all time greats. Should the Hall of Fame voters plucked out all of his 50+ yard runs and leave him with a bunch of negatives to go with one and two yard carries?

I agree coxew every play counts.

 

[AKAK]

Should the Hall of Fame voters plucked out all of his 50+ yard runs and leave him with a bunch of negatives to go with one and two yard carries?

No... but you can factor it in as a part of how many games his team won or lost..

Do you want a homerun hitter or an RB that keeps you out of second and long and sustains drives on the ground.

I did think Lydell did look some better, and there were clear missed assignments on some of his no gains... (The 4th and one was not his fault, obviously)

Also, to his credit, Lydell was falling forward when he got tackled for the most part too...

At least now he's hitting holes, and there are some holes to hit.... so we need to build on that.