west Virginia #1 - Recruiting Officially Irrelevant

[BuckeyeBlitz04]

Let them be #1, so Ohio State can smoke them in the NC game! WV is O-v-e-r R-a-t-e-d! Who do they play, seriously ppl? ESPN is comparing Pat White to Vince Young; Troy is closer to Vince than Pat is, simple and plain. What do you think? Realistically?

 

[OSUBuckeye4Life]

I can't agree. Given, with the way rankings work based on last years records I would be surprised not to see them in the top 5, but it is bogus.

IMO the Georgia game was Air Force versus OSU. A good program that simply didn't take it seriously.

Whether you are correct or not about them taking it seriously it is of no consequence, you can't hold that against WVU.

WVU did what they were supposed to do, therefor they deserve a Top 5 ranking based off of the personel they are bringing back and the success of last year.

....and for everyone making the schedule arguement, Ohio State didn't beat the two toughest teams we played, you could even go out on a limb [if you wanted] and say that WVU has the best win between the two with Georgia. So if WVU doesn't deserve it, why does OSU?

 

[Thump]

How long until Rich Rodriguez is the hot coaching commodity for NFL teams.

I have no idea if the NFL is a goal of his but I can see him being the next Kirk Ferentz type hot commodity.

I also wonder if he'd ever leave West Virginia for a primo D1 program?

 

[OSUBuckeye4Life]

How long until Rich Rodriguez is the hot coaching commodity for NFL teams.

I have no idea if the NFL is a goal of his but I can see him being the next Kirk Ferentz type hot commodity.

I also wonder if he'd ever leave West Virginia for a primo D1 program?

Doubt it. He passed on a few bigger programs to come ot WVU. He played for Don N. @ WVU and he grew up not to far from there.

 

[lane]

THIS is soo obvious it's silly! THIS is ESPiN digging for angry 'Buckeye Nation' fan emails in what is one of the slowest CFB times of the year. Unfortunately, THIS is exactly what it (ESPiN) will get & Forde will make us (and a few other schools) the butt of another full page piece of hooey! Not that it truly matters, but we're the reason the big TURD that is 'ESPiN' keeps chugging along.

Just sayin', see THIS for what THIS is!

Lane
:osu:

 

[BB73]

They needed a mistake by Big East referees (admitted publicly) to make that big comeback against Louisville.

But after White and Slaton settled in, their last 5 games were a solid run, although Georgia was the only quality opponent.

I think ranking them in the top 5 is legitimate. But that's based on expectations of wins and losses because of their schedule. Most voters wouldn't expect West Virginia to beat LSU or Florida. But they do expect them to end up with fewer losses next year.

But I'm so far onto the W. Va. bandwagon I'm moving to Morgantown to open up a used couch store. They're going to need a lot more of them this year.

 

[Oh8ch]

I did have a second theme when I started this thread that has gotten lost.

Individual star rankings are suspect at best. But I have always felt that when you take them in te aggregate they mean something. Those schools that consistently land players in the top 25 at their positions consistently rank near the top of the polls. It is a pretty strong correlation.

That is what impresses me a about Iowa under Ferentz or Wisky under Alvarez. Washington St from 2001 through 2003 is a classic example. Their classes were unranked nationally and near the bottom of the PAC 10 every year. Yet they went 30-8 in a legit conference.

It takes the unexpected emergence of a couple of great skill players (like White and Slaton). But it also takes very good coaching and player development across the board.

So in that regard I give all the credit in the world to Rich Rodriquez and his program.

All that said I have NEVER seen a team that did not have highly recruited athletes make a serious statement that they were the NC. And it isn't the BCS or the media that are screwing them out of the opportunity. There is always one or more major programs with superior athletes who have played stronger schedules and made very strong cases that they are the best.

After years of watching the BYUs and Idaho States of the world run the table, whine that they were relegated to a lesser bowl, then get exposed, I am not ready to crown WVU just yet.

If that sounds like I am saying these lesser programs - programs that do not recruit top caliber athletes - by definition are never candidates for the NC, that is not quite true. But the NC - or even a slot in the NC game - should not be awarded based on schedule quirks. These teams need to do two things: 1) schedule at least one significant non-conference game and win it, and 2) win virtually all of their conference games convincingly.

I better stop now before I make a case for an expanded playoff - which I adamantly oppose.


West-by-God Virginnie - the only state where Pumpkin is a verb.

 

[crazybuckfan40]

Whether you are correct or not about them taking it seriously it is of no consequence, you can't hold that against WVU.

WVU did what they were supposed to do, therefor they deserve a Top 5 ranking based off of the personel they are bringing back and the success of last year.

....and for everyone making the schedule arguement, Ohio State didn't beat the two toughest teams we played, you could even go out on a limb [if you wanted] and say that WVU has the best win between the two with Georgia. So if WVU doesn't deserve it, why does OSU?

Hey reverse the roles and see what you get. We run through the big east like we were playing high school football. Then in non conference we could beat Wofford by 70 and East Carolina by 50. Then we would of got Va Tech at home. I think we win that one by 10.

Put WVU up against Texas(L), Iowa(closegame), PSU(L), MSU(closegame), Minny(L), scUM(L)

They could of had anywhere up to 5 loses. They are not an elite team. They just played in a shitty conference where it was easy to look like and elite team. Then as I said in my last post they met a UGA team that wasnt emotionally in the game the first half.

 

[barlow1802]

Who do they play, seriously ppl?

that will work to their advantage and that was one of the reason purdue was ranked so high last year.

Im personally glad we arnt number one, i dont want to be top 5. I would be happy with 8. Its cool going wire to wire #1 but i honestly could give a flying f where we are in espn preseason polls on january 21st.

Does anyone seriously take espn as a credible source anymore?

 

[OSUBuckeye4Life]

Hey reverse the roles and see what you get. We run through the big east like we were playing high school football. Then in non conference we could beat Wofford by 70 and East Carolina by 50. Then we would of got Va Tech at home. I think we win that one by 10.

Put WVU up against Texas(L), Iowa(closegame), PSU(L), MSU(closegame), Minny(L), scUM(L)

They could of had anywhere up to 5 loses. They are not an elite team. They just played in a shitty conference where it was easy to look like and elite team. Then as I said in my last post they met a UGA team that wasnt emotionally in the game the first half.

....and that is all speculation. I'll go with what has happened instead of guessing.

I'm sure before the Sugar Bowl you would have put Georgia (L) and you see what happened there.

Let's look at facts.....they won every game but 1. They beat quality teams like Louisville and Georgia. They got better and better as the year went on [I'm sure directly related to White/Slaton getting more experience]. They return both of those players.

Let's look at speculation........they could have had 5 loses in the Big 10. Georgia wasn't "in" the game the first half.....etc.etc.

Of course you can think what you want though....

 

[crazybuckfan40]

....and that is all speculation. I'll go with what has happened instead of guessing.

I'm sure before the Sugar Bowl you would have put Georgia (L) and you see what happened there.

Let's look at facts.....they won every game but 1. They beat quality teams like Louisville and Georgia. They got better and better as the year went on [I'm sure directly related to White/Slaton getting more experience]. They return both of those players.

Let's look at speculation........they could have had 5 loses in the Big 10. Georgia wasn't "in" the game the first half.....etc.etc.

Of course you can think what you want though....

Ok, a good team does not give up a 28 pt. lead. They were up 28-0 and then UGA thought ok we might try and win, and sure enough they came all the way back, and if it wouldnt of been for that suprise fake punt, I think they would of lost the game. I know you probably watched most of the bowls games and in the games where teams are supposed to just roll, they usally end up being closer than expected. Why b/c of emotion.

As you said they had two quality wins. Louisville and UGA. I have explained UGA and as BB73 pointed out they needed a blown call just to make that comeback on Louisville. One of their next toughest games was Rutgers. They lost to freakin' Illinois.

My only thing is, that I get sick of the media hyping these stupid ass teams from the Big East up. Last year it was Louisville(who one of the guys on the ABC set picked to go to the national title game), and the year b4 it was WVU(who Corso picked to go to the national title game.)

Much like people thought Purdue had this great shot last year, only b/c of their weak ass schedule.

I don't know if this is a good comparison, but I will try. In Ohio high school football you have NorthEast ohio which is usually the most dominant. There are about 10 schools that could easily come out there and make it to state each year. Then you have the SouthEast who has some decent teams, but not on par with NorthEast so they bring a team to state, who isnt even as good as the teams that say lost in the first round or maybe didnt make the playoffs b/c they had a tougher schedule.

I honestly think for this reason, that they either need to put SOS in the BCS, Have a playoff, or make teams like that schedule some good teams or tell them they are getting left out.

Will you be humming this same tune if WVU wins all their games next year, we lose 1 to say Texas and they make the NC instead of us. No, b/c they don't have a single team on their schedule that could stay on the field with us or Texas. Get what I am saying.

I guess my main pt. will be that I am not necessairly harping on WVU and the talent, but more on the fact of the easy road that some teams have to get to the big time. Some teams have to ride a bike, and some get picked up for a limo ride.

 

[OSUBuckeye4Life]

Ok, a good team does not give up a 28 pt. lead. They were up 28-0 and then UGA thought ok we might try and win, and sure enough they came all the way back, and if it wouldnt of been for that suprise fake punt, I think they would of lost the game. I know you probably watched most of the bowls games and in the games where teams are supposed to just roll, they usally end up being closer than expected. Why b/c of emotion.

As you said they had two quality wins. Louisville and UGA. I have explained UGA and as BB73 pointed out they needed a blown call just to make that comeback on Louisville. One of their next toughest games was Rutgers. They lost to freakin' Illinois.

My only thing is, that I get sick of the media hyping these stupid ass teams from the Big East up. Last year it was Louisville(who one of the guys on the ABC set picked to go to the national title game), and the year b4 it was WVU(who Corso picked to go to the national title game.)

Much like people thought Purdue had this great shot last year, only b/c of their weak ass schedule.

I don't know if this is a good comparison, but I will try. In Ohio high school football you have NorthEast ohio which is usually the most dominant. There are about 10 schools that could easily come out there and make it to state each year. Then you have the SouthEast who has some decent teams, but not on par with NorthEast so they bring a team to state, who isnt even as good as the teams that say lost in the first round or maybe didnt make the playoffs b/c they had a tougher schedule.

I honestly think for this reason, that they either need to put SOS in the BCS, Have a playoff, or make teams like that schedule some good teams or tell them they are getting left out.

Will you be humming this same tune if WVU wins all their games next year, we lose 1 to say Texas and they make the NC instead of us. No, b/c they don't have a single team on their schedule that could stay on the field with us or Texas. Get what I am saying.

I guess my main pt. will be that I am not necessairly harping on WVU and the talent, but more on the fact of the easy road that some teams have to get to the big time. Some teams have to ride a bike, and some get picked up for a limo ride.

I disagree....a good team finds a way to win. A good team holds on to the lead. A good team WINS.

Not trying to be an @$$ about it but it's nothing but excuses as to why WVU beat the teams they beat [according to what I'm reading] and that is BS. Bottom line is they won....they deserve the credit for that.

You are also acting as if I think they should be #1, which I have already said I dont, but they do DESERVE a top 5 or so spot. Based off of what they have done and who they bring back they deserve it....that is all I was saying.

Lastly, it's more complicated than "if WVU is undefeated and OSU's only loss is Texas....." You have to take into account the rest of the games, how highly regarded those wins are for both teams, margain of victory, how much the team grew over the course of the season, etc. I dont think WVU has the ovious bias that ND does and will be ranked in accordance to what they show on the field, as should Ohio State.

 

[sandgk]

Oh8ch - early in the thread you asked WTF am I missing.

Well - what about some historical perspective?

How good was Pat Forde's crystal ball LAST season?

Some snippets -

Wisconsin was not on the radar. They finished ranked.

For what it's worth, other Big 10 teams meriting mention, Forde had Michigan ranked No. 3, Iowa No. 7 and Ohio State No. 12 entering last season, while Purdue made his "others to watch" list.

Sure let's watch Purdon't go nowhere fast :tongue2:

Perhaps he meant Ohio State #3 and the rest is a vicious misprint and editing error.

Now that was in January 2005 - perhaps matters improved by say June of 2005? After all the scrimmages are done, and you have a better view on the teams depth charts.

2005 Pre-Season
ESPN.com (Pat Forde)
1. USC

2. Michigan 3. Texas 4. Tennessee 5. Iowa 6. Virginia Tech 7. Ohio State 8. Florida 9. Miami (Fla.) 10. Louisville 11. LSU 12. Florida State 13. Virginia Tech 14. Georgia 15. Boise State 16. Texas Tech 17. Auburn 18. Texas A&M 19. Fresno State 20. Arizona State 21. Bowling Green 22. Cal 23. Pittsburgh 24. Iowa State 25. Wyoming

Oh rats - surely not another total miss by Forde the all knowing. Did any of those rankings actually hit the spot, nope.
I am forced to conclude that the only polls worth a damn are the gut feelings I have and (for the most part) CFN's pre-season projections - issued in August / September.

 

[BB73]

Oh rats - surely not another total miss by Forde the all knowing. Did any of those rankings actually hit the spot, nope.
I am forced to conclude that the only polls worth a damn are the gut feelings I have and (for the most part) CFN's pre-season projections - issued in August / September.

Did he really have Va. Tech at 6th and at 13th?

 

[crazybuckfan40]

I disagree....a good team finds a way to win. A good team holds on to the lead. A good team WINS.

Not trying to be an @$$ about it but it's nothing but excuses as to why WVU beat the teams they beat [according to what I'm reading] and that is BS. Bottom line is they won....they deserve the credit for that.

You are also acting as if I think they should be #1, which I have already said I dont, but they do DESERVE a top 5 or so spot. Based off of what they have done and who they bring back they deserve it....that is all I was saying.

Lastly, it's more complicated than "if WVU is undefeated and OSU's only loss is Texas....." You have to take into account the rest of the games, how highly regarded those wins are for both teams, margain of victory, how much the team grew over the course of the season, etc. I dont think WVU has the ovious bias that ND does and will be ranked in accordance to what they show on the field, as should Ohio State.

A good team doesnt go up 28 and just hold on. They might give up a score or two but they don't let the other team right back in the game.

I am not saying dont give WVU credit for wins, but you have to look at the opponents b4 giving them credit.

Louisville isnt ranked if they play in a different conference.

It is not a combination, but just a concept. There is no way WVU deserves to play in a NC if they go undefeated and beat up on the big East and we lose one game to a top 10 team early in the season at their place. I don't care how the rest of the games went. I would feel the same way about a team in the SEC or maybe the ACC too. If Florida lost to say a top 10 team early and then win out, I would take them over WVU.

I guess we are going to agree to disagree, b/c I hate it when people ranks teams on the fact that their schedule sucks. Much like Purdon't this year.

They had no business being as high as they were, people were even saying they were going to win the big ten.:!