Urban in the Sugar Bowl

[cincibuck]

OK, He won, the Bucks won. I'm not a football coach. He must have done something special to win this game, but I'm wondering what happened at certain points in the game, so here are some questions I offer to my fellow BPers - not to knock Urban, but to try and understand the W,W,W,W, &W.

1. 1st and goal on the two, first and goal on the one, and the Bucks never leave the shotgun, go empty backfield on at least four of the plays. Score only 6 points. Why not at least one or two attempts with Cardale under center? Is this a part of the playbook that was taken out when JT went down?

2. Two touchdown lead, under 4 minutes to play, I understand a young DB tries to jump the route and gets burned for 30 plus yards and 'Bama scores quickly. That happens at all levels, but I'm not so sure why the Bucks didn't get the time out called to set the defense. Does Luke have the authority to call that on his own?

3. Get the ball back at near the 50, less than 2 minutes on the clock, up seven and you go for a deep pass???????? What was Herman thinking? Why would Urban not step in and cancel it? Incredibly risky call that put the whole game on the line.

4. Has anyone seen an explanation of what happened around the 1 minute mark, short pass to receiver, catches ball, takes one or two steps and gets hammered by two DBs, ball drops out and is picked up by Buckeyes. No one seems to know if the ball is caught. Ball is marked where the receiver caught it, play is not reviewed, Alabama allowed to go to hurry up. Was the play accidentally blown dead?

 

[LordJeffBuck]

 

[Bill Lucas]

3) Meyer said that was his call. They had 11 men on the line of scrimmage.

4) Should have been reviewed. Was either incomplete or a fumble and neither was called. Blame it on the guy in the booth and the fact that Alabama was in hurry up (for them because their version of hurry up sucks) mode. It still worked out ok because the clock kept running.

 

[Jaxbuck]

OK, He won, the Bucks won. I'm not a football coach. He must have done something special to win this game, but I'm wondering what happened at certain points in the game, so here are some questions I offer to my fellow BPers - not to knock Urban, but to try and understand the W,W,W,W, &W.

1. 1st and goal on the two, first and goal on the one, and the Bucks never leave the shotgun, go empty backfield on at least four of the plays. Score only 6 points. Why not at least one or two attempts with Cardale under center? Is this a part of the playbook that was taken out when JT went down?

2. Two touchdown lead, under 4 minutes to play, I understand a young DB tries to jump the route and gets burned for 30 plus yards and 'Bama scores quickly. That happens at all levels, but I'm not so sure why the Bucks didn't get the time out called to set the defense. Does Luke have the authority to call that on his own?

3. Get the ball back at near the 50, less than 2 minutes on the clock, up seven and you go for a deep pass???????? What was Herman thinking? Why would Urban not step in and cancel it? Incredibly risky call that put the whole game on the line.

4. Has anyone seen an explanation of what happened around the 1 minute mark, short pass to receiver, catches ball, takes one or two steps and gets hammered by two DBs, ball drops out and is picked up by Buckeyes. No one seems to know if the ball is caught. Ball is marked where the receiver caught it, play is not reviewed, Alabama allowed to go to hurry up. Was the play accidentally blown dead?

1. I have no problem with it. It is their offense and bringing Bama in tight to pound a yard is playing to their (Bama's) strength. If that was the one where Cardale dropped the shotgun snap then it was an easy TD if he stays focused and catches the ball.

2. No idea, probably human error but I'd be shocked to see assist coaches calling TO's in the last minutes of games instead of the HC.

 

[buchtelgrad04]

OK, He won, the Bucks won. I'm not a football coach. He must have done something special to win this game, but I'm wondering what happened at certain points in the game, so here are some questions I offer to my fellow BPers - not to knock Urban, but to try and understand the W,W,W,W, &W.

1. 1st and goal on the two, first and goal on the one, and the Bucks never leave the shotgun, go empty backfield on at least four of the plays. Score only 6 points. Why not at least one or two attempts with Cardale under center? Is this a part of the playbook that was taken out when JT went down?

2. Two touchdown lead, under 4 minutes to play, I understand a young DB tries to jump the route and gets burned for 30 plus yards and 'Bama scores quickly. That happens at all levels, but I'm not so sure why the Bucks didn't get the time out called to set the defense. Does Luke have the authority to call that on his own?

3. Get the ball back at near the 50, less than 2 minutes on the clock, up seven and you go for a deep pass???????? What was Herman thinking? Why would Urban not step in and cancel it? Incredibly risky call that put the whole game on the line.

4. Has anyone seen an explanation of what happened around the 1 minute mark, short pass to receiver, catches ball, takes one or two steps and gets hammered by two DBs, ball drops out and is picked up by Buckeyes. No one seems to know if the ball is caught. Ball is marked where the receiver caught it, play is not reviewed, Alabama allowed to go to hurry up. Was the play accidentally blown dead?

2. Vonn Bell attempted to call a TO, as was a coach on the sideline (can't remember who, yet) but was not noticed by ref.

4. The ballcarrier was down. He had his legs taken out from him and hit the ground forcefully with his upper-body, causing the ball to pop out. It wasn't a fumble.

 

[UpNorth_Buckeye]

OK, He won, the Bucks won. I'm not a football coach. He must have done something special to win this game, but I'm wondering what happened at certain points in the game, so here are some questions I offer to my fellow BPers - not to knock Urban, but to try and understand the W,W,W,W, &W.

1. 1st and goal on the two, first and goal on the one, and the Bucks never leave the shotgun, go empty backfield on at least four of the plays. Score only 6 points. Why not at least one or two attempts with Cardale under center? Is this a part of the playbook that was taken out when JT went down?

2. Two touchdown lead, under 4 minutes to play, I understand a young DB tries to jump the route and gets burned for 30 plus yards and 'Bama scores quickly. That happens at all levels, but I'm not so sure why the Bucks didn't get the time out called to set the defense. Does Luke have the authority to call that on his own?

3. Get the ball back at near the 50, less than 2 minutes on the clock, up seven and you go for a deep pass???????? What was Herman thinking? Why would Urban not step in and cancel it? Incredibly risky call that put the whole game on the line.

4. Has anyone seen an explanation of what happened around the 1 minute mark, short pass to receiver, catches ball, takes one or two steps and gets hammered by two DBs, ball drops out and is picked up by Buckeyes. No one seems to know if the ball is caught. Ball is marked where the receiver caught it, play is not reviewed, Alabama allowed to go to hurry up. Was the play accidentally blown dead?

For #1, this may have been something they implemented, or practiced harder, for Oregon due to the lack of success in the Sugar Bowl. Because there was 2 or 3 times they did exactly that in the NCG. I think Cardale said in an interview afterwards that they've always had that in their repertoire, but maybe they focused on it more during the week leading up to Oregon.

 

[jwinslow]

For #1, this may have been something they implemented, or practiced harder, for Oregon due to the lack of success in the Sugar Bowl. Because there was 2 or 3 times they did exactly that in the NCG. I think Cardale said in an interview afterwards that they've always had that in their repertoire, but maybe they focused on it more during the week leading up to Oregon.

It's also a lot easier to pound it right at Oregon. Not that I'm fond of the pure shotgun look in short yardage.

 

[woofermazing]

For #1, this may have been something they implemented, or practiced harder, for Oregon due to the lack of success in the Sugar Bowl. Because there was 2 or 3 times they did exactly that in the NCG. I think Cardale said in an interview afterwards that they've always had that in their repertoire, but maybe they focused on it more during the week leading up to Oregon.

Yup, it took a while for the coaching staff to figure out how to be successful in the red zone with Barrett. They were still figuring out what Cardale does best going into the playoffs.


On #3 I'd say Urban was playing to win vs. playing not to lose. I would choose the latter, the percentages in favor of Alabama drop considerably with every second lost, and the chance of hitting that play is not great unless a defender makes a mistake. But then again, they had Amari Cooper.

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

2. Vonn Bell attempted to call a TO, as was a coach on the sideline (can't remember who, yet) but was not noticed by ref.

4. The ballcarrier was down. He had his legs taken out from him and hit the ground forcefully with his upper-body, causing the ball to pop out. It wasn't a fumble.

I will confirm. For the longest time I thought we got Illinois 2007ed there....but I finally saw a replay during one of my rewatches that showed the WR was down in bounds before the ball came out.

 

[charlohiottean]

3. I also remember Urban saying that play was his call during a post-game interview, and that he was partly trying to give Evan a reward opp. for all he'd done.

 

[Zander42]

#1 Urban knew that the 'bama players would be overconfident because of the media on their jocks for the previous weeks and, well 'BAMA!!' If the Buckeyes went ahead early, that might shatter that overconfidence. Getting down 21-6 early was exactly what he wanted to have happen. Before Bama knew they were in a fight, it was already over. I think the end result proves this.

 

[jwinslow]

I will confirm. For the longest time I thought we got Illinois 2007ed there....but I finally saw a replay during one of my rewatches that showed the WR was down in bounds before the ball came out.

I'm not sure how anyone felt robbed of a fumble. That was a generous reception call (instead of incomplete) that helped burn up some of the precious seconds that urban handed over on a platter with the terrible deep ball call to Spencer.

 

[cincibuck]

The dropped pass just seemed to be a critical play at a critical moment. I don't think anyone knew what actually happened and no call for review didn't help. My take at the time was that one of the refs had accidentally blown the play dead negating the fumble and recovery. That the ref facing the play (and furthest from the only camera angle shown that I recall) saw the knee hit and then the ball pop out is certainly plausible.

Calling for the pass play still strikes me as about the only dumb thing I've seen Urban do.

 

[jwinslow]

Calling for the pass play still strikes me as about the only dumb thing I've seen Urban do.

Especially given how bad Spencer is at hauling in 50/50 balls.

 

[Zurp]

Calling for the pass play still strikes me as about the only dumb thing I've seen Urban do.

Agreed. On the one hand, you have a chance to go up 2 scores, without taking much time off the clock (which was around 1:30, if I remember correctly). On the other hand, you might give the other team a free time out. Since they have 2 more to spend, they can stop the clock after 2nd and 3rd downs, meaning you really don't take much time, if any. The third thing that can happen (and second bad thing, per Woody Hayes), is you've given the other team the ball back via a figurative punt, AND they keep both of their time outs. I think that IF you're going to throw that deep pass (which I would choose to not do), you make them spend their time outs first. Throw it on third down.

Edit - I'm still against the decision to throw the ball, but JW makes a good point.

As for your other items:
1. I don't recall Ohio State going under center at all the entire season up to that point - except maybe Cardale did in garbage time against Kent State. (Not counting burning the clock at the end of a half or game.) The shotgun is Ohio State's playbook. I've gotten used to it. I can't say that I agree with it, but if it gets my team to 38-3 in 3 seasons, then I'll take it with a smile.
2. Can assistants call time outs? I didn't think so. I'd hate to think any old jerk on the side lines can call time outs. Can the opposing team's ballboy call time outs?
4. Seems like a couple guys have confirmed the ball was down. I figured at the time that that would be the best deal for Ohio State. If the replay booth checks it out, you stop the game to let Alabama set up for the next play, with a slight chance Ohio State gets the ball, but also a chance that they call incomplete and the clock doesn't start, yet. Make Alabama hurry up. (Of course, the best deal is if they actually rule it a fumble. But I was just hoping that they'd keep the clock rolling at that point.)