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U.S. Men's National Soccer (Official Thread)

Alright, I have some free time and have been soccer immersed lately (as I seem to be always anymore) and I thought I would talk a little while we aren't all screaming at the TV and explain my exasperation with folks (sorry @Bestbuck36 ) kind of going really off the deep end about how this qualifying session is supposed to work.

@AuTX Buckeye this isn't a defense of Berhalter, though, I think he's mostly doing the right things. But, this will swing that way in tone because well, he's the coach and he did the stuff that we're going to talk about, and I really don't think he did anything "wrong" per se in the last 3 matches... could he have done some righter stuff? Maybe, but that's probably out of scope here.

So, lets talk about qualifying in the Ocho.

The first thing to remember is, if we're getting into conspiracy theories, if you're not Mexico or the US, you might think that everything is stacked against you and you have one shot for one spot (and the play in).

You would be correct.

The (common) 3 matches in 7 days(ish) format is plainly set up to reward teams with depth. For Panama's trouble using their main guys in all 3 matches, they ended up getting run off by Canada in their 3rd match in that cycle.... now, I have no idea honestly if they have other good options, but I doubt it.

So, lets pause there.

Now, I know you're asking, so AKAK, if the depth teams have the advantage, why are we looking like we are throwing in the towel on the road in Panama.

Here's who WASN'T available in Panama that night:

Jordan Morris
Aaron Long
John Brooks
Christian Pulisic
Gio Reyna
Weston McKennie
Antonee Robinson

And Zach Steffan...

Now, with the exception of Jordan Morris (who I would posit would be getting wing minutes ahead of Arriola and depending on the Lineup - Tim Weah), the rest of those guy would probably on the field in a "one match you have to win scenario" - I guess we can argue about Aaron Long, but, my sense is that's the dude Berhalter wants back there with Brooks the most often. There are more dinged up dudes that may or may not have got called in but that's a different discussion.

So, where there was once depth, there is now 3rd stringers, and remember its not just injuries its partly Protocols about travel to Panama and getting players back to their club teams on time, etc.

More about this Panama thing and the game schedule, this isn't play a game in Dallas on Thursday, Portland on Sunday and Columbus on Wednesday. Its Panama.

So, in addition to the travel restrictions taking players away, this is Concacaf on the road, to a remote (sometimes) location... and it not just a shitty field with asshole ball kids. You have to bring all your own food, water, etc so they don't poison you, they might be blaring music at your hotel if you're dumb enough to stay overnight there, all that shit. Also, they might decide to go Honduras and foul the fuck out of you all night, and you're always in danger of running into a ref that DGAF.

Well, why not start the rest of your starters and see how it goes? Well, this isn't football, you only get 5 subs. And if you start guys with the intention of pulling them early, see above and you get the fuck fouled out of you, etc, etc. So, your best intentions might be to get Adams and Dest out of there in one piece, that can go the wrong way in a hurry.

Couple all that with the fact that these guys are for the most part really young still. The obvious "why aren't they playing guys" from that day being (to me) Aaronson, Dest, and Pepi are 21, 21, and 18. And veteran guys can manage their output and recovery a little bit better sometimes, so I think its another thing its smart to be aware of.

So, what does this all mean? It means you have to prioritize matches in these 3 game groups. And the games you have to prioritize are home games, especially with the away game being the middle one. Does it suck they lost to Panama? Yeah. Should some of those guys not played like zombies? Yep. Was the lineup questionable? Maybe but it was more about Busio and starting Yedlin and those sorts of things.

Does it also suck that our depth at some spots is really thin? Yeah, I mean, obviously there's no replacement for Tyler Adams basically at all... and for my part I'm not sure really who the 9 and 10 are, which doesn't really help, and is sort of important to score consistently. (None of this is to say that missing Pulisic, Reyna and Brooks don't hurt, they ARE our best players but at least the guys who come in for them, can, for a match, do a pretty good job - and for the record, I was hoping some of the Nations Cup/Gold cup diversity of players thing would end up helping maybe identify/develop some alternatives)

That all said, I think the plan to try to win both the home games (and they ultimately needed all hands on deck against the Ticos for the whole match) was the right one, and at Panama I think Berhalter was hoping to have a draw, then bring in the subs to try to win, and obviously it didn't turn out that way.

Anyway, I expect it to be all (available) hands on deck for Mexico then Jamaica. (But they're still short with Gio, Brooks, Dest out etc, and Tuchel kinda sending up a warning shot on Pulisics usage)

Curious to see how El Tri plays it, they get both matches away and have to play in Edmonton on the 16th. I assume Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier will be waiting for them there. (in case you were wondering, the high temp there is supposed to be 37 and the low 13 according to the 7 day forecast, so, good luck with that)
 
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@AKAK i’m gonna stay quite about Berhie until after they’ve qualified or get eliminated. I just don’t FEEL (yes its a gut feeling nothing i can proof outside of them not qualifying) he’s the right guy for THESE players. To me this feels like a bad marriage where the players are better fit for another formation/tactics than what Berhie runs/comfortable with. I’d not know … just gonna hope they qualify then i’ll move the goal post to hate on Berhie a little more :)
 
Upvote 0
@AKAK i’m gonna stay quite about Berhie until after they’ve qualified or get eliminated. I just don’t FEEL (yes its a gut feeling nothing i can proof outside of them not qualifying) he’s the right guy for THESE players. To me this feels like a bad marriage where the players are better fit for another formation/tactics than what Berhie runs/comfortable with. I’d not know … just gonna hope they qualify then i’ll move the goal post to hate on Berhie a little more :)

This is a fair but different conversation than "why does this lineup suck and shit is hitting the fan in panama"

My personal opinion is that 4-3-3 is indeed the right formation for this group. Especially now that he's put the "system" tactics on the back burner (there are always wrinkles, and he wrinkle is always going to be to have that one outside back be a flex wingback and then get one of the MF's really high on the attack, it just is what it is)*

Is he the right guy for a bunch of 18-23 year olds... that one I'm much less convinced about. I think the Panama thing went the wrong way in part because Berhalter probably has a tendency to project his own maturity/soccer IQ on some of these guys when they're kinda struggling with core concepts and he's emphasizing more complex things. (make no mistake, the dude is a soccer NERD, doesn't make him a great teacher) and I think he felt Acosta, Zardes and LLetget would be able to impact the game more than they did from a keep the structure in place kind of perspective... and I think with Bello, Moore, Weah, etc, it was just too many guys not comfortable with the plan and each other. I forget who the CB's were, but... yeah, Not Brooks.

But again, you only get so much time with them. So, is it Berhalters fault that he had to go so deep in the pool after no COVID games... I dunno.

I'm also not super convinced that he's playing everyone in their most useful position.

I will say that I don't think there's any evidence he's prioritized MLS players over european ones at all, and in fact is prioritizing european based developmental guys over some domestic dudes who might have been better suited for that last 3 matches... but, you need to develop dudes too, especially the dudes you think have the highest ceilings.
 
Upvote 0
Alright, I have some free time and have been soccer immersed lately (as I seem to be always anymore) and I thought I would talk a little while we aren't all screaming at the TV and explain my exasperation with folks (sorry @Bestbuck36 ) kind of going really off the deep end about how this qualifying session is supposed to work.

@AuTX Buckeye this isn't a defense of Berhalter, though, I think he's mostly doing the right things. But, this will swing that way in tone because well, he's the coach and he did the stuff that we're going to talk about, and I really don't think he did anything "wrong" per se in the last 3 matches... could he have done some righter stuff? Maybe, but that's probably out of scope here.

So, lets talk about qualifying in the Ocho.

The first thing to remember is, if we're getting into conspiracy theories, if you're not Mexico or the US, you might think that everything is stacked against you and you have one shot for one spot (and the play in).

You would be correct.

The (common) 3 matches in 7 days(ish) format is plainly set up to reward teams with depth. For Panama's trouble using their main guys in all 3 matches, they ended up getting run off by Canada in their 3rd match in that cycle.... now, I have no idea honestly if they have other good options, but I doubt it.

So, lets pause there.

Now, I know you're asking, so AKAK, if the depth teams have the advantage, why are we looking like we are throwing in the towel on the road in Panama.

Here's who WASN'T available in Panama that night:

Jordan Morris
Aaron Long
John Brooks
Christian Pulisic
Gio Reyna
Weston McKennie
Antonee Robinson

And Zach Steffan...

Now, with the exception of Jordan Morris (who I would posit would be getting wing minutes ahead of Arriola and depending on the Lineup - Tim Weah), the rest of those guy would probably on the field in a "one match you have to win scenario" - I guess we can argue about Aaron Long, but, my sense is that's the dude Berhalter wants back there with Brooks the most often. There are more dinged up dudes that may or may not have got called in but that's a different discussion.

So, where there was once depth, there is now 3rd stringers, and remember its not just injuries its partly Protocols about travel to Panama and getting players back to their club teams on time, etc.

More about this Panama thing and the game schedule, this isn't play a game in Dallas on Thursday, Portland on Sunday and Columbus on Wednesday. Its Panama.

So, in addition to the travel restrictions taking players away, this is Concacaf on the road, to a remote (sometimes) location... and it not just a shitty field with asshole ball kids. You have to bring all your own food, water, etc so they don't poison you, they might be blaring music at your hotel if you're dumb enough to stay overnight there, all that shit. Also, they might decide to go Honduras and foul the fuck out of you all night, and you're always in danger of running into a ref that DGAF.

Well, why not start the rest of your starters and see how it goes? Well, this isn't football, you only get 5 subs. And if you start guys with the intention of pulling them early, see above and you get the fuck fouled out of you, etc, etc. So, your best intentions might be to get Adams and Dest out of there in one piece, that can go the wrong way in a hurry.

Couple all that with the fact that these guys are for the most part really young still. The obvious "why aren't they playing guys" from that day being (to me) Aaronson, Dest, and Pepi are 21, 21, and 18. And veteran guys can manage their output and recovery a little bit better sometimes, so I think its another thing its smart to be aware of.

So, what does this all mean? It means you have to prioritize matches in these 3 game groups. And the games you have to prioritize are home games, especially with the away game being the middle one. Does it suck they lost to Panama? Yeah. Should some of those guys not played like zombies? Yep. Was the lineup questionable? Maybe but it was more about Busio and starting Yedlin and those sorts of things.

Does it also suck that our depth at some spots is really thin? Yeah, I mean, obviously there's no replacement for Tyler Adams basically at all... and for my part I'm not sure really who the 9 and 10 are, which doesn't really help, and is sort of important to score consistently. (None of this is to say that missing Pulisic, Reyna and Brooks don't hurt, they ARE our best players but at least the guys who come in for them, can, for a match, do a pretty good job - and for the record, I was hoping some of the Nations Cup/Gold cup diversity of players thing would end up helping maybe identify/develop some alternatives)

That all said, I think the plan to try to win both the home games (and they ultimately needed all hands on deck against the Ticos for the whole match) was the right one, and at Panama I think Berhalter was hoping to have a draw, then bring in the subs to try to win, and obviously it didn't turn out that way.

Anyway, I expect it to be all (available) hands on deck for Mexico then Jamaica. (But they're still short with Gio, Brooks, Dest out etc, and Tuchel kinda sending up a warning shot on Pulisics usage)

Curious to see how El Tri plays it, they get both matches away and have to play in Edmonton on the 16th. I assume Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier will be waiting for them there. (in case you were wondering, the high temp there is supposed to be 37 and the low 13 according to the 7 day forecast, so, good luck with that)

Cheers!
 
Upvote 0
@AKAK i’m gonna stay quite about Berhie until after they’ve qualified or get eliminated. I just don’t FEEL (yes its a gut feeling nothing i can proof outside of them not qualifying) he’s the right guy for THESE players. To me this feels like a bad marriage where the players are better fit for another formation/tactics than what Berhie runs/comfortable with. I’d not know … just gonna hope they qualify then i’ll move the goal post to hate on Berhie a little more :)

Well, hopefully you get to move the goalposts into the world cup and out of the group rounds.. (I feel like this core group is trending toward being pretty good in '26 anyway, and by the time they're in their mid and late 20's I think the coach will matter much less... )
 
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