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Transgendered decathlete (formerly known as Bruce) Caitlyn Jenner

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Why should a girl - both equipment-wise and genetically - be forced out of the girls/women's bathroom or be made to feel uncomfortable within one because some guy thinks he's a woman? Are we really going down this line of thinking for real?

No offense, that's fucking stupid. And, just to make this truly relevant to Bruce Jenner, he's still not a woman, nor is he a hero of any type.
 
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Buckeye86 said:
I don't think it's telling people how to feel.

1. You won't notice.
2. If you do notice and feel uncomfortable leave the situation or report the situation if you feel it's inappropriate.
3. You don't expose yourself to people in public restrooms. If anyone thinks you do and that's why they have a problem with this you're doing it wrong.

I don't see how that is telling anyone how to feel.
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So everyone else that feels uncomfortable with the opposite gender needs to get over it and accept it unless it's really overboard.

Is it a peep show in the bathroom? Obviously not. Are people vulnerable and in a state of undress that they do not wish to be in front of the opposite gender? Yes.

Are Parts Occasionally Exposed? Yes, Especially To Wandering Eyes. (my phone refuses to stop capitalizing) Would people do that? Most likely not (overwhelming percentage), any more than anyone else, but that's not really the issue. It's the possibility of being exposed and vulnerable and the concern over that being feasible.

This is being done to avoid someone feeling uncomfortable about the way they were born, yet now because of that accommodation everyone else has to redefine gender roles and boundaries for themselves as well.

People can choose to live however they want. It's when those choices force everyone else to accept those choices that it jumps the shark, especially when it imposes those changes in extremely private and sensitive areas.
 
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jwinslow said:
So everyone else that feels uncomfortable with the opposite gender needs to get over it and accept it unless it's really overboard.

Is it a peep show in the bathroom? Obviously not. Are people vulnerable and in a state of undress that they do not wish to be in front of the opposite gender? Yes.

Are Parts Occasionally Exposed? Yes, Especially To Wandering Eyes. (my phone refuses to stop capitalizing) Would people do that? Most likely not (overwhelming percentage), any more than anyone else, but that's not really the issue. It's the possibility of being exposed and vulnerable and the concern over that being feasible.

This is being done to avoid someone feeling uncomfortable about the way they were born, yet now because of that accommodation everyone else has to redefine gender roles and boundaries for themselves as well.

People can choose to live however they want. It's when those choices force everyone else to accept those choices that it jumps the shark, especially when it imposes those changes in extremely private and sensitive areas.
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Being vaguely aware something exists does not equal forced acceptance.

How is the "forced acceptance" of gay marriage going for everyone? Any major life changes to report?

The answer to that is nothing has changed, just like it will be for this restroom issue no matter how dramatic you and others want to be about it.
 
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Muck said:
Quite simply that is not true. Some who try to use it to score political points likely fit that description, but the medical research is solid and has nothing to do with feelings.
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Love is a feeling not a choice.
Marriage is a feeling and an eternal commitment until it doesn't feel so good.
Gender is rapidly becoming a feeling, and one that some claim that kids cannot make until they mature.
Morality and ethics are defined by personal perspectives, feelings and judgments.
God is a feeling and a false one.

And yes, 86 has revved me up quite a bit, though I do feel pretty strongly about much of society placing feelings at the apex of their reality and judgment.

I'm not claiming there are not underlying causes or that we understand this area very well (we understand very little about the brain at all). I'm claiming that feeling like a different demographic does not make someone that other demographic. It makes their perspective based over there.
 
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Muck said:
Saying 'a boy has no business in a girls bathroom' over and over again is not going to make the situation fit your world view. That's not at all what we're talking about.
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It's not "my" world view, but the view of the vast majority. If it weren't then we would've had gender-neutral restrooms from day one, not, wouldn't we?

Muck said:
The research is showing more and more that gender dysphoria is a biological condition. Attempts to 'cure' it (ie force the individual to accept their birth sex) using psychotherapy don't work. When it comes to prepubescent children it's even more complicated as it appears to be harder to diagnose (not all children who display symptoms appear to actually exhibit the condition after they reach puberty).
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Then if it's a biological condition, then eventually there will be a medical treatment for it. Until then, the vast majority should not have to conform to the desires/needs of someone well outside the norm.

Muck said:
Do I think legislated bathroom reassignment for those who suffer gender dysphoria is the correct answer? Not really, but I sure as hell don't see a reason to make their lives more hellish by calling them disturbed and treating them like outcasts.
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JFC. How is making a boy use the boys room hellish? As for "disturbed", if someone can't figure out what gender they are, then yeah, I'd say the kid is disturbed. I'm not saying treat them like outcasts, just make them use the correct latrine facilities like everyone else. Pretty fucking simple really. If any kids pick on a "gender confused" kid, then they should be dealt with accordingly.

Not even going to bother with the rest. Boys simply don't belong in the girls restrooms.
 
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Buckeye86 said:
Being vaguely aware something exists does not equal forced acceptance.

How is the "forced acceptance" of gay marriage going for everyone? Any major life changes to report?

The answer to that is nothing has changed, just like it will be for this restroom issue no matter how dramatic you and others want to be about it.
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Maybe you could just post my responses for me and save some time, since you clearly aren't actually interested in hearing what I have to say given the nonsense you just shoved into my mouth about gay marriage.
 
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I'll still refer back to the Southpark on this topic. A great commentary on not shaming people struggling with this issue, but also a (possibly unintentional) side commentary on the confusion it caused for others during a confusion tween age for young adolescents that are confused about their sexuality, identity and weird new feelings.

I don't know what the solution is either and it is a very real thing to deal with. I see free reign bathrooms as making the issue a lot more complex, unless you're going to abolish urinals. if everyone had stalls, that might be different.

Are women comfortable using coed bathrooms with men? Not transgender men who feel like women , but any men including heterosexuals, because I think at some point you'd have to abolish the distinction all together.
 
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Buckeye86 said:
Women's restrooms only have stalls, and any women who wanted to use a men's restroom would only be using stalls.
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Is that a rule? What if the stalls are full and nature calls?

I think at some point you have to just lift all restrictions if you're going to mix up the bathrooms, which leads to other issues.
 
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jwinslow said:
Love is a feeling not a choice.
Marriage is a feeling and an eternal commitment until it doesn't feel so good.
Gender is rapidly becoming a feeling, and one that some claim that kids cannot make until they mature.
Morality and ethics are defined by personal perspectives, feelings and judgments.
God is a feeling and a false one.

And yes, 86 has revved me up quite a bit, though I do feel pretty strongly about much of society placing feelings at the apex of their reality and judgment.

I'm not claiming there are not underlying causes or that we understand this area very well (we understand very little about the brain at all). I'm claiming that feeling like a different demographic does not make someone that other demographic. It makes their perspective based over there.
Click to expand...

Love & gender are biochemistry.
Marriage is a legal contract.
Morality is primarily a product of culture.

We know quite a bit about the brain and are learning more every day, and what we've learned doesn't conform to your world view. Oh well.

I don't really give a damn about how revved up you are. Your issues with trying to reconcile what we know with your religious beliefs are your own problem. Just understand that every time this topic comes up I watch you become the modern equivalent of the guy climbing up on a cotton bale & quoting Colossians/Ephesians.
 
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Muck said:
Love & gender are biochemistry.
Marriage is a legal contract.
Morality is primarily a product of culture.
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Well, holy fucking shit, we agree on all three points...

Muck said:
We know quite a bit about the brain and are learning more every day, and what we've learned doesn't conform to your world view. Oh well.
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Also agree with our learning more and more about the brain, but enlighten us on just what you think jwins' world view is and how it contradicts recent findings on the workings of the brain...

Muck said:
I don't really give a damn about how revved up you are. Your issues with trying to reconcile what we know with your religious beliefs are your own problem. Just understand that every time this topic comes up I watch you become the modern equivalent of the guy climbing up on a cotton bale & quoting Colossians/Ephesians.
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I'm agnostic, so I don't follow jwins' sphere of belief, but again enlighten us with "what we know" and how it conflicts with his religious beliefs...
 
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