tOSU Linebackers History (Merged)

[MililaniBuckeye]

Solid argument. I admit I'm beaten; I called you out and you backed yourself up with...well...absolutely nothing. Carpenter's future draft status and/or skill level in general have absolutely no logical relation to the skill of his replacement, formally or informally.

Alright, let me hand-walk you through.

1. You have a NFL first-rounder at SLB who gets hurt on the first play of The Game.

2. You put in a true freshman to fill in.

3. Carp's talent does come into play because of his importance to the defensive scheme (pursuit speed, pass-rushing ability, etc.). If Carp was "just another linebacker" then Laurinaitis' performance would not have been that important.

4. Laurinaitis plays so well that the offenses of both Michigan and Notre Dame do not choose to attack him when he's in.

5. If Laurinaitis was the best available LB at the time of Carpenter's injury to fill in at SLB, why wouldn't he be now?

 

[thackattack]

Laurinaitis' development over this spring and summer also needs to be considered. Just because he played average in the last two games (which I agree with whoever said it, featured a lot of nickel coverage), doesn't mean he won't grow a lot and become a beast by fall practice. The guy was a true freshman playing/starting against scUM and Notre Dame, of course he's going to learn a lot from that and improve with a full year in the system.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Tell me who is better suited (both talent and PT) out of our returners to play SLB than Laurinaitis...

 

[JXC]

Alright, let me hand-walk you through.

1. You have a NFL first-rounder at SLB who gets hurt on the first play of The Game.

2. You put in a true freshman to fill in.

3. Carp's talent does come into play because of his importance to the defensive scheme (pursuit speed, pass-rushing ability, etc.). If Carp was "just another linebacker" then Laurinaitis' performance would not have been that important.

4. Laurinaitis plays so well that the offenses of both Michigan and Notre Dame do not choose to attack him when he's in.

5. If Laurinaitis was the best available LB at the time of Carpenter's injury to fill in at SLB, why wouldn't he be now?

#4 is flawed...I didn't notice either team avoiding him. And I agree that since Laurinaitis filled in and was the best option during those games, that he likely still is. But how far ahead is he of everybody else? And what about the incomming recruits, they didn't have a shot to play in these games. Plus, how do we know what will happen in the spring, and in the fall. Laurinaitis could easily be taken over, because there is just so much talent there.

The fact that he gained experience in two HUGE games means a lot though...so he knows what a big game atmosphere feels like. Laurinaitis did a good job filling in for Carp, but he didn't blow me away as being as good as Carp, or amazing. Still LOTS of room to grow there.

 

[EdDantes22]

Alright, let me hand-walk you through.

1. You have a NFL first-rounder at SLB who gets hurt on the first play of The Game.

2. You put in a true freshman to fill in.

3. Carp's talent does come into play because of his importance to the defensive scheme (pursuit speed, pass-rushing ability, etc.). If Carp was "just another linebacker" then Laurinaitis' performance would not have been that important.

4. Laurinaitis plays so well that the offenses of both Michigan and Notre Dame do not choose to attack him when he's in.

5. If Laurinaitis was the best available LB at the time of Carpenter's injury to fill in at SLB, why wouldn't he be now?

Yikes. What a mess. Sure, Lauranaitis's performance was important because of who he was filling in for. We needed someone to pick up the slack. I see no evidence that he did, and that certainly doesn't mean that he played well, just because we needed him to or because it was important that he do so.

Right, they didn't attack him. Or they attacked him all day and he failed to make tackles. With your reasoning a guy who finishes with no tackles should be awarded the defensive MVP every game. They "must not have attacked him."

Also, to attack Lauranaitis, michigan and ND would have had to run the ball 10 yards out of bounds, since he was usually on the sidelines in favor of a DB.

Lastly, I agree he probably is the best now. But players progress at different paces and I was only wondering (and still wondering) whether anyone thought another LB was poised to leap over him.

 

[jwinslow]

3. Carp's talent does come into play because of his importance to the defensive scheme (pursuit speed, pass-rushing ability, etc.). If Carp was "just another linebacker" then Laurinaitis' performance would not have been that important.

Laurinaitis was used as "just another backer" and not like carp, so I'm not sure this point is valid. I see waht you're trying to say, but Laurinaitis probably would have started whether carp was used as a traditional LB or not.

It's a long time until september, and many expected Freeman to push for PT this year before the injury. I expect both to start, but its not impossible that someone could come on strong before then...

 

[thackattack]

Tell me who is better suited (both talent and PT) out of our returners to play SLB than Laurinaitis...

I dunno, what do you think about Freeman at SLB? If we had a Grant or another quick LB (Gibson, etc) to throw in at WLB, why not move Freeman to strong side and let that quick LB wreak havoc? I guess I'm not sure how suited Freeman is for SLB vs. Laurinaitis...I really don't know.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

#4 is flawed...I didn't notice either team avoiding him.

Show me where I said they "avoided" him. There's a big difference in not choosing to attack a position and "avoiding" it.

 

[Buckeye86]

Tell me who is better suited (both talent and PT) out of our returners to play SLB than Laurinaitis...

obviously he wins when it comes to playing time... but when it comes to talent it isn't nearly so clear cut which is way a lot of people are hesitant to place him as the clear cut starter at this time

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

obviously he wins when it comes to playing time... but when it comes to talent it isn't nearly so clear cut which is way a lot of people are hesitant to place him as the clear cut starter at this time

Never said he was the "clear-cut" starter. But with his big-game experience (albeit limited), the obvious belief the staff has in him, and that fact that no one else from the returning OLBs has proven to be better than him, to me that adds up to being the starter. I picked three starters (Laurinaitis, D'Andrea, and Freeman) based on their past performance and future potential, and no one has even come close to showing me that I made the wrong picks.

 

[jwinslow]

4. Laurinaitis plays so well that the offenses of both Michigan and Notre Dame do not choose to attack him when he's in.

After watching most of the michigan 1st half, Kudla was our Carpenter replacement, not Laurinaitis. He dropped into space a ton, and James was not in the game very much. Laurinaitis was often in when we expected a run, and rarely/never when it was a passing down.

He played 9 of 28 plays during the first three drives. Someone else can gladly do the rest of the homework on the other half, and the ND game (which I don't have)...

michigan first drive:
sweep thrown on animal's side (defended by everett), he was pancaked, but the other defenders took him out.
Next 4 plays he sat out.
6th play a run up the middle.
Sat out 5 plays (turnover on downs).
2 of 11 plays.


Michigan 2nd drive:
Sat out 2 plays.
3rd and short they run up the middle with him in there.
1st down run up middle, cut outside towards 33 (tackled by 51).
2nd down did not count due to holding, Henne rolled right and was looking on #33's side of the field (under serious pressure tho had to scramble out of bounds).
Sat out 2 plays before the punt.
3 of 7.

Michigan 3rd drive (after fumble):
Sat out 3 plays.
1st and 10 run up the middle with #33 in there.
Sat out 2 plays.
Throw another screen to #33's sideline, who gets locked up at the line... the other backers get there faster after the play ends.
2nd and short run up the middle with #33 on the field.
Sat out 3rd and goal.
In on 1st and goal from short.
4 of 10.

 

[Taosman]

Never said he was the "clear-cut" starter. But with his big-game experience (albeit limited), the obvious belief the staff has in him, and that fact that no one else from the returning OLBs has proven to be better than him, to me that adds up to being the starter. I picked three starters (Laurinaitis, D'Andrea, and Freeman) based on their past performance and future potential, and no one has even come close to showing me that I made the wrong picks.

I agree, 100%.
Freeman is a lock.
I'm not sure D'Andrea can handle the pounding in the middle.
Laurinaitis has an edge in experience. Some one would have to out play him. That won't be easy. A move to outside by D'Andrea could drop him to 2nd choice.
D'Andrea moving to out side would mean Kerr or Hoobler at Mike.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

After watching most of the michigan 1st half, Kudla was our Carpenter replacement, not Laurinaitis. He dropped into space a ton, and James was not in the game very much. Laurinaitis was often in when we expected a run, and rarely/never when it was a passing down.

He played 9 of 28 plays during the first three drives. Someone else can gladly do the rest of the homework on the other half, and the ND game (which I don't have)...

How could Kudla be Carp's "replacement" when he was the starting DE all year? Also, in your breakdown, Michigan flowed play his way one time (screen to his side) while he was in. I'd say that supports my contention that they didn't attack him. Lastly, your breakdown is of the first half of The Game, his first "real" playing time, and against Michigan at that. Of course he's not going to be in there full time. The next time I watch the Fiesta Bowl, I'll specifically make notes on Laurinaitis and see how mauchmore he played than he did in the early stages of The Game.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

I agree, 100%.
Freeman is a lock.
I'm not sure D'Andrea can handle the pounding in the middle.
Laurinaitis has an edge in experience. Some one would have to out play him. That won't be easy. A move to outside by D'Andrea could drop him to 2nd choice.
D'Andrea moving to out side would mean Kerr or Hoobler at Mike.

D'Andrea beat out Schlegel last year for the MLB spot, but now he can't beat out Hoobler or Kerr? D'Andrea will start at MLB.

 

[jwinslow]

How could Kudla be Carp's "replacement" when he was the starting DE all year? Also, in your breakdown, Michigan flowed play his way one time (screen to his side) while he was in. I'd say that supports my contention that they didn't attack him. Lastly, your breakdown is of the first half of The Game, his first "real" playing time, and against Michigan at that. Of course he's not going to be in there full time. The next time I watch the Fiesta Bowl, I'll specifically make notes on Laurinaitis and see how mauchmore he played than he did in the early stages of The Game.

They didn't really attack anyone, they tried to run up the middle (which is smart b/c I can't think of a time in 4 years where that worked against our D). The two sweep/screen plays thrown on Laurinaitis' side were a smart play as he was completely taken out of those two plays... fortunately the rest of our D stepped up on those plays.

You were using the lack of attacking Laurinaitis to prove that he was a stud. He was barely in the game in the first half against michigan, and I doubt it was a coincidence that he was out there when they often ran the ball (good prediction by Heacock).

I'm sure his ND experience was a better judge, but my tivo automatically recorded over it, so that wasn't available for me.