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tBBC Fans Interact: Ohio State Versus Sparty
WVaBuckeye via our good friends at Buckeye Battle Cry
Visit their fantastic blog and read the full article (and so much more) here
Taking some time to let things diffuse and enjoy the week approaching the Rivalry game with TTUN may be just what the doctor ordered. We assembled a good group of fans this week to say their piece and to be brutally honest! Huge thank you to Trish @tf0620, Ryan @BuckeyeEmpire, @TheBuckeyeNinja and Justin @Jus10Dam.
New at tBBC: Recap: Sparty stuns Buckeyes 17-14 https://t.co/zL6SHf39sN
— The BBC (@The_BBC) November 22, 2015
After the loss, there’s been a lot of social media reaction to the “cause”. What are your thoughts on the loss and what caused it? What are your thoughts on Ezekiel Elliott’s comments after the game?
@tf0620 – This season we are missing some key positions mostly at WR, with most of last season’s WR corp in the NFL or hurt. We are missing the deep threat; we have Thomas the only true WR. Braxton and Marshall are filling in but its not enough, and a few other WRs that are just not ready yet,
We need the deep threat to open up the running game. If we are unable to get the passing game started then we end up stuck.
Elliott has the right to express himself. He was upset over the loss and emotional, he said what he said. It’s no secret this was his last year, but some things need to be kept in house. I don’t think he would have said what he did about leaving if we would have won that game. Now the media will be all over it, we will hear his words repeated during every game, we are Ohio State with us that happens, Teams are now preparing for Elliott, he is no longer an unknown, last year’s National Championship showed the world what Elliott can do,
@BuckeyeEmpire – Most of the backlash on social media geared towards what caused the loss is the play calling. I would tend to agree with that, along with a few other key points beyond just whose hands the ball actually ends up in. The first thing is that it is clear the offensive line has regressed from last season.
2 things can happen here: 1. Rally as a team & play their best football. 2. Play to get season over with I think it'll be #1
— Beat_ichiganE_pire (@BuckeyeEmpire) November 22, 2015
We saw this level of play the week prior, as well as many other poor performances this season. It’s become very apparent that there is either some sort of communication disconnect among them on assignments, or that Warinner simply can’t juggle the duties of a co-offensive coordinator with those involved in developing the offensive line.
Tim Beck is not the play caller anyone thought he was, he is actually worse. He did nothing at Nebraska to show that he was capable of using the weapons this offense has in the correct manner, and he has proved that most people’s worry about the hire were correct. Surely, everyone knows the main issue was the lack of touches Elliot had after the first scoring drive.
While this is important, he’s also not doing Elliott any favors on the plays where he does actually carry the ball. Last season we saw more motion in one game than I believe we have seen all season. It seemed that every play Marshall or Wilson would be in motion to at least create the idea in the defense’s mind that a jet sweep may happen. Or possibly an option off a play fake using the motion man as the pitch man.
But now the offense is so bland with formation and motion that defenses don’t have to worry about any of it. They can read simple keys and come up to make the play. The idea of Herman’s offense last season was to get the defense to hesitate or lean the wrong direction for just a millisecond, and that causes creases for Elliott to make huge runs.
My thoughts on Elliot’s comments are simple; he was right, the timing could have been better but it has become apparent that needed to be said.
@TheBuckeyeNinja – 1) Our expectations were shaped by the last 3 games last season. That was the most incredible run I’ve ever seen from Ohio State football in my lifetime and chances are, it’s more incredible than anything I will see in the future.
It’s hard to keep that in perspective day in and day out. If you’d frozen me in carbonite the night before the B1G Championship game and then thawed me and immediately asked my expectations for this team this season, 10-1 going into the Game would’ve done me quite nicely.
The team did not look like world beaters through most of the 2014 season. Although the offense was significantly better, the defense wasn’t nearly as good as it’s been (sometimes by necessity) this year.
2) The biggest differences from last season to this one have been the loss of Devin Smith, the departure of Tom Herman, and the promotion of Warinner/hiring of Tim Beck. In my opinion, the biggest negatives this season have been play-calling and offensive line play.
It’s not unreasonable to ascribe the problems we’ve seen to Warinner not having the time to coach up the line as in the past and having the architect of the Taylor Martinez Experience come on board.
3) Having said that, I wonder if Beck is being blamed a little more than he should be. It’s gotten a little crazy at this point.
I thought they were amazing and I am still 100% on Team Zeke. Through the last couple seasons everyone’s talked about how Elliott is a team leader and statements from people like Joey Bosa afterwards (“He said what a lot of us were thinking”) kind of back that up.
Was it the appropriate time and place? Not according to the standard sports media “rules” all the talking heads seem to live their lives by. But I think most of the national sports media are a bunch of idiots anyway.
Personally I think the timing those comments were if anything later than they could’ve been. Urban Meyer has said that he’s going to be more involved in the play-calling (although I could’ve sworn he addressed this earlier in the season to little effect) and maybe that doesn’t happen without Zeke starting the conversation.
Also the idea of a guy’s draft stock falling for speaking his mind is ridiculous when you consider the kinds of things NFL teams regularly minimize or ignore in order to find the best talent. Zeke’ll be jusssssst fine.
As an aside it’s kind of funny that some people who have been all “If you don’t support the team 100% you can just (expletives) root for someone else” in response to some of our criticism finally coming on board and in some cases leading the bandwagon.
Some people have admitted that they were looking through scarlet-colored glasses earlier in the year but a lot of others just put their Fire Tim hats on and pretended they haven’t been mocking a chunk of the fanbase for two months. Better late than never I guess.
@Jus10Dam – After having time to fall back into the realm of reality, my thoughts are simply this; you won’t like Zeke when he’s angry. Feed the beast and put your players in a better position to succeed. To elaborate a little further, the play calling has been down right despicable all season. It’s my firm belief that this play calling always victimized Cardale Jones, as well.
He and J.T. made several plays with their arms and their legs last season, yet it seems that whichever one of the offensive coordinators are calling the plays this season is reluctant to see either of them succeed.
When you have arguably the best running back in the nation and he only sees two carries in the most crucial portion of the game, that’s just someone getting consumed in the game and out thinking themselves.
In this game you have to run your horse to set up the passing game, the reverses, the swing passes, and the play action passes. You don’t run your running back to set up a designed run for your quarterback. As dynamic as J.T. Barrett has shown us he can be, the likes of Ezekiel Elliott, Braxton Miller, Michael Thomas, Jalin Marshall, and Curtis Samuel only to name a few have the ability to electrify a crowd and set the field on fire with their athleticism.
My point is this; let your quarterback use the intangibles that got him to his current position, those being his leadership and his impeccable decision making. If during the course of distributing a running lane opens for the quarterback, by all means, get all you can get. Until then quit with the high number of designed quarterback runs.
The Silver Bullets played a pretty good game overall and put the Buckeyes offense in good positions to score. What are your thoughts on the scoring drives by MSU and were they outmanned or out coached?
@tf0620 – When your Defense is on the field all game and the Offense can not put together a run then the Defense becomes tired. Those 3 offside calls on Bosa didn’t help matters. I do not think were out-manned or out coached on the defensive side of the ball
@BuckeyeEmpire – Overall the defense played very well, especially considering they were on the field for over 38 minutes. The big issue is that we continue to struggle late in games against a running QB threat. Most of that yardage I conceded to the fact that we really didn’t have any time to prepare for that offense, as everyone expected Cook to start. MSU did a great job hiding that, and all things considered I think they played about as well as possible
@TheBuckeyeNinja – I think Sparty got a gift on their first TD drive and may not have scored their TD without the “completion” after their receiver ran for ten yards out of bounds before reestablishing himself back in. Still, bad calls happen (and in college football they happen A LOT) and the Bullets had chances to stop MSU after that play.
Exactly. Can't blame the D for being tired after on the field for 40 minutes https://t.co/2eAixrvtRo
— Buckeye Ninja (@TheBuckeyeNinja) November 22, 2015
The final scoring drives I can’t blame the defense for at all. They were on the field for what seemed like the entire second half and they had to be exhausted. In other words, I blame the offensive ineptitude for the defense’s failures.
@Jus10Dam – This Buckeye defense has been a mainstay all season long, coming up with plays when they need to happen and getting the ball back to our offense. With that said, this defensive unit held the number nine team in the country to 17 points, a tie ballgame until the diminishing seconds of the game. There were a few lapses on defense that cost the Buckeyes but it was mostly a bend and don’t break scenario.
Here’s the hard one but be honest. Grade this teams overall performance and where did the breakdown really occur?
@tf0620 – I give us a B on Defense. they kept us in the game and the Offense gets a Big ol’ F. The weather was a problem, but the lack of a passing game killed us and MSU was ready for the running game .
@BuckeyeEmpire – My honest grade for this game is a D+. The defense was a B+ for their efforts, but not an A due to the final drive and lack of preparation in case Cook didn’t start. The special teams got an A on great coverage and despite the one shanked punt, everything else was stellar. The offense gets an F with the worst performance most Buckeye fans have ever witnessed.
Coaching gets a F. There were no halftime adjustments made and it’s clear there is a rift in the staff on what the offense needs to look like. The lack of a decision on QB early in the season has really come back to bite this team late and it’s painful to watch for the players involved.
Even Urban got involved in curious coaching decisions by not appropriately using his timeouts (and saving one for this week, apparently) to force MSU to have to kick off after their game winning field goal. As we’ve seen this season plenty of games have ended on crazy plays, and Ohio State had a chance to at least force MSU to kick off. Even if they kick it out of bounds you can have Cardale come in and throw the ball 70 yards for the final play.
@TheBuckeyeNinja – This has to be broken out:
Offense: F——
Dead horse beaten. I’d have graded a Z if that was a thing. Just completely terrible, one drive excluded, from the beginning to the end. It was like a horror movie using the worst days of the Freshman Braxton-Joe Bauserman era as its inspiration.
Losing today kinda screwed
ichigan which is another bright side.
— Buckeye Ninja (@TheBuckeyeNinja) November 22, 2015
Defense: C
See above. For the most part they were great. Holding Sparty to 17 points is usually a pretty good sign that the team will win. Even though I don’t blame them hardly at all, they just didn’t get the job done when they really had to.
Special Teams: B+
Aussie for president.
@Jus10Dam – At the end of the day, these guys played hard and they stuck together trying to pull out the victory. They fell a tad short this time, but make no mistake about it, this Buckeye team is a force. I’m sure there will be plenty of people who will be waiting to disagree but I give this team a B+ for their heart and determination to let Urban Meyer and his staff to lead them down a path to victory.
Sure, there is plenty of room for improvement in different areas, but these Buckeyes had a game plan and seemed to carry it out, it just so happens this time it fell a tiny bit short.
What does this team need to do to bounce back in rivalry week and what is your score prediction.
@tf0620 – The team will be ready, this is The Game. They are pretty angry that they let themselves and everyone else down last weekend, yet they still have a lot to play for. I might be worried if I were the other team. This is one game I never give a score prediction on, because you can throw everything you think you know out the window because anything can happen …
@BuckeyeEmpire – In order to bounce back and beat TTUN this team needs to realize that they should still be continuing to play for each other. This will be the final game for many members of the team against the Wolverines, and although a shot at another national title looks to be completely out of reach, they will forever remember another set of gold pants. I think as long as Urban is calling the plays the Buckeyes can pull this out. It’ll be a low scoring game.
Buckeyes 20 – TTUN – 17
@TheBuckeyeNinja – I think in some ways this loss could prove to be a blessing in disguise for the team’s prospects this weekend. Had they beaten Sparty changes might have been backburnered; instead this could be a wake-up call for some folks. The Buckeyes being an underdog according to Vegas might finally allow Urban to use some of that “No one believes in you!” motivation we always hear about.
On the other hand…it’s very possible that the problems with the offense may be too much to fix in just seven days. Let’s not forget the defensive embarrassments of 2013 weren’t actually addressed until the following offseason and had the B1G championship and Orange Bowl gone differently perhaps wouldn’t have been addressed at all. (Remember the whole “Did we win?” BS during the season when people were questioning the defense? Pepperidge Farm remembers.)
On the OTHER hand (back to the first hand, I guess) Muck Fichigan.
21-17 Buckeyes.
@Jus10Dam – In closing, it is an injustice to this team that a loss so late in the season had to happen to bring the troubled play calling to the forefront. Moving forward, the Buckeye faithful hope to see improvement much like they have with the development of Luke Fickell.
The post tBBC Fans Interact: Ohio State Versus Sparty appeared first on The Buckeye Battle Cry: Ohio State News and Commentary.
Continue reading...
WVaBuckeye via our good friends at Buckeye Battle Cry
Visit their fantastic blog and read the full article (and so much more) here
Taking some time to let things diffuse and enjoy the week approaching the Rivalry game with TTUN may be just what the doctor ordered. We assembled a good group of fans this week to say their piece and to be brutally honest! Huge thank you to Trish @tf0620, Ryan @BuckeyeEmpire, @TheBuckeyeNinja and Justin @Jus10Dam.
New at tBBC: Recap: Sparty stuns Buckeyes 17-14 https://t.co/zL6SHf39sN
— The BBC (@The_BBC) November 22, 2015
After the loss, there’s been a lot of social media reaction to the “cause”. What are your thoughts on the loss and what caused it? What are your thoughts on Ezekiel Elliott’s comments after the game?
@tf0620 – This season we are missing some key positions mostly at WR, with most of last season’s WR corp in the NFL or hurt. We are missing the deep threat; we have Thomas the only true WR. Braxton and Marshall are filling in but its not enough, and a few other WRs that are just not ready yet,
We need the deep threat to open up the running game. If we are unable to get the passing game started then we end up stuck.
Elliott has the right to express himself. He was upset over the loss and emotional, he said what he said. It’s no secret this was his last year, but some things need to be kept in house. I don’t think he would have said what he did about leaving if we would have won that game. Now the media will be all over it, we will hear his words repeated during every game, we are Ohio State with us that happens, Teams are now preparing for Elliott, he is no longer an unknown, last year’s National Championship showed the world what Elliott can do,
@BuckeyeEmpire – Most of the backlash on social media geared towards what caused the loss is the play calling. I would tend to agree with that, along with a few other key points beyond just whose hands the ball actually ends up in. The first thing is that it is clear the offensive line has regressed from last season.
2 things can happen here: 1. Rally as a team & play their best football. 2. Play to get season over with I think it'll be #1
— Beat_ichiganE_pire (@BuckeyeEmpire) November 22, 2015
We saw this level of play the week prior, as well as many other poor performances this season. It’s become very apparent that there is either some sort of communication disconnect among them on assignments, or that Warinner simply can’t juggle the duties of a co-offensive coordinator with those involved in developing the offensive line.
Tim Beck is not the play caller anyone thought he was, he is actually worse. He did nothing at Nebraska to show that he was capable of using the weapons this offense has in the correct manner, and he has proved that most people’s worry about the hire were correct. Surely, everyone knows the main issue was the lack of touches Elliot had after the first scoring drive.
While this is important, he’s also not doing Elliott any favors on the plays where he does actually carry the ball. Last season we saw more motion in one game than I believe we have seen all season. It seemed that every play Marshall or Wilson would be in motion to at least create the idea in the defense’s mind that a jet sweep may happen. Or possibly an option off a play fake using the motion man as the pitch man.
But now the offense is so bland with formation and motion that defenses don’t have to worry about any of it. They can read simple keys and come up to make the play. The idea of Herman’s offense last season was to get the defense to hesitate or lean the wrong direction for just a millisecond, and that causes creases for Elliott to make huge runs.
My thoughts on Elliot’s comments are simple; he was right, the timing could have been better but it has become apparent that needed to be said.
@TheBuckeyeNinja – 1) Our expectations were shaped by the last 3 games last season. That was the most incredible run I’ve ever seen from Ohio State football in my lifetime and chances are, it’s more incredible than anything I will see in the future.
It’s hard to keep that in perspective day in and day out. If you’d frozen me in carbonite the night before the B1G Championship game and then thawed me and immediately asked my expectations for this team this season, 10-1 going into the Game would’ve done me quite nicely.
The team did not look like world beaters through most of the 2014 season. Although the offense was significantly better, the defense wasn’t nearly as good as it’s been (sometimes by necessity) this year.
2) The biggest differences from last season to this one have been the loss of Devin Smith, the departure of Tom Herman, and the promotion of Warinner/hiring of Tim Beck. In my opinion, the biggest negatives this season have been play-calling and offensive line play.
It’s not unreasonable to ascribe the problems we’ve seen to Warinner not having the time to coach up the line as in the past and having the architect of the Taylor Martinez Experience come on board.
3) Having said that, I wonder if Beck is being blamed a little more than he should be. It’s gotten a little crazy at this point.
I thought they were amazing and I am still 100% on Team Zeke. Through the last couple seasons everyone’s talked about how Elliott is a team leader and statements from people like Joey Bosa afterwards (“He said what a lot of us were thinking”) kind of back that up.
Was it the appropriate time and place? Not according to the standard sports media “rules” all the talking heads seem to live their lives by. But I think most of the national sports media are a bunch of idiots anyway.
Personally I think the timing those comments were if anything later than they could’ve been. Urban Meyer has said that he’s going to be more involved in the play-calling (although I could’ve sworn he addressed this earlier in the season to little effect) and maybe that doesn’t happen without Zeke starting the conversation.
Also the idea of a guy’s draft stock falling for speaking his mind is ridiculous when you consider the kinds of things NFL teams regularly minimize or ignore in order to find the best talent. Zeke’ll be jusssssst fine.
As an aside it’s kind of funny that some people who have been all “If you don’t support the team 100% you can just (expletives) root for someone else” in response to some of our criticism finally coming on board and in some cases leading the bandwagon.
Some people have admitted that they were looking through scarlet-colored glasses earlier in the year but a lot of others just put their Fire Tim hats on and pretended they haven’t been mocking a chunk of the fanbase for two months. Better late than never I guess.
@Jus10Dam – After having time to fall back into the realm of reality, my thoughts are simply this; you won’t like Zeke when he’s angry. Feed the beast and put your players in a better position to succeed. To elaborate a little further, the play calling has been down right despicable all season. It’s my firm belief that this play calling always victimized Cardale Jones, as well.
He and J.T. made several plays with their arms and their legs last season, yet it seems that whichever one of the offensive coordinators are calling the plays this season is reluctant to see either of them succeed.
When you have arguably the best running back in the nation and he only sees two carries in the most crucial portion of the game, that’s just someone getting consumed in the game and out thinking themselves.
In this game you have to run your horse to set up the passing game, the reverses, the swing passes, and the play action passes. You don’t run your running back to set up a designed run for your quarterback. As dynamic as J.T. Barrett has shown us he can be, the likes of Ezekiel Elliott, Braxton Miller, Michael Thomas, Jalin Marshall, and Curtis Samuel only to name a few have the ability to electrify a crowd and set the field on fire with their athleticism.
My point is this; let your quarterback use the intangibles that got him to his current position, those being his leadership and his impeccable decision making. If during the course of distributing a running lane opens for the quarterback, by all means, get all you can get. Until then quit with the high number of designed quarterback runs.
The Silver Bullets played a pretty good game overall and put the Buckeyes offense in good positions to score. What are your thoughts on the scoring drives by MSU and were they outmanned or out coached?
@tf0620 – When your Defense is on the field all game and the Offense can not put together a run then the Defense becomes tired. Those 3 offside calls on Bosa didn’t help matters. I do not think were out-manned or out coached on the defensive side of the ball
@BuckeyeEmpire – Overall the defense played very well, especially considering they were on the field for over 38 minutes. The big issue is that we continue to struggle late in games against a running QB threat. Most of that yardage I conceded to the fact that we really didn’t have any time to prepare for that offense, as everyone expected Cook to start. MSU did a great job hiding that, and all things considered I think they played about as well as possible
@TheBuckeyeNinja – I think Sparty got a gift on their first TD drive and may not have scored their TD without the “completion” after their receiver ran for ten yards out of bounds before reestablishing himself back in. Still, bad calls happen (and in college football they happen A LOT) and the Bullets had chances to stop MSU after that play.
Exactly. Can't blame the D for being tired after on the field for 40 minutes https://t.co/2eAixrvtRo
— Buckeye Ninja (@TheBuckeyeNinja) November 22, 2015
The final scoring drives I can’t blame the defense for at all. They were on the field for what seemed like the entire second half and they had to be exhausted. In other words, I blame the offensive ineptitude for the defense’s failures.
@Jus10Dam – This Buckeye defense has been a mainstay all season long, coming up with plays when they need to happen and getting the ball back to our offense. With that said, this defensive unit held the number nine team in the country to 17 points, a tie ballgame until the diminishing seconds of the game. There were a few lapses on defense that cost the Buckeyes but it was mostly a bend and don’t break scenario.
Here’s the hard one but be honest. Grade this teams overall performance and where did the breakdown really occur?
@tf0620 – I give us a B on Defense. they kept us in the game and the Offense gets a Big ol’ F. The weather was a problem, but the lack of a passing game killed us and MSU was ready for the running game .
@BuckeyeEmpire – My honest grade for this game is a D+. The defense was a B+ for their efforts, but not an A due to the final drive and lack of preparation in case Cook didn’t start. The special teams got an A on great coverage and despite the one shanked punt, everything else was stellar. The offense gets an F with the worst performance most Buckeye fans have ever witnessed.
Coaching gets a F. There were no halftime adjustments made and it’s clear there is a rift in the staff on what the offense needs to look like. The lack of a decision on QB early in the season has really come back to bite this team late and it’s painful to watch for the players involved.
Even Urban got involved in curious coaching decisions by not appropriately using his timeouts (and saving one for this week, apparently) to force MSU to have to kick off after their game winning field goal. As we’ve seen this season plenty of games have ended on crazy plays, and Ohio State had a chance to at least force MSU to kick off. Even if they kick it out of bounds you can have Cardale come in and throw the ball 70 yards for the final play.
@TheBuckeyeNinja – This has to be broken out:
Offense: F——
Dead horse beaten. I’d have graded a Z if that was a thing. Just completely terrible, one drive excluded, from the beginning to the end. It was like a horror movie using the worst days of the Freshman Braxton-Joe Bauserman era as its inspiration.
Losing today kinda screwed
ichigan which is another bright side.— Buckeye Ninja (@TheBuckeyeNinja) November 22, 2015
Defense: C
See above. For the most part they were great. Holding Sparty to 17 points is usually a pretty good sign that the team will win. Even though I don’t blame them hardly at all, they just didn’t get the job done when they really had to.
Special Teams: B+
Aussie for president.
@Jus10Dam – At the end of the day, these guys played hard and they stuck together trying to pull out the victory. They fell a tad short this time, but make no mistake about it, this Buckeye team is a force. I’m sure there will be plenty of people who will be waiting to disagree but I give this team a B+ for their heart and determination to let Urban Meyer and his staff to lead them down a path to victory.
Sure, there is plenty of room for improvement in different areas, but these Buckeyes had a game plan and seemed to carry it out, it just so happens this time it fell a tiny bit short.
What does this team need to do to bounce back in rivalry week and what is your score prediction.
@tf0620 – The team will be ready, this is The Game. They are pretty angry that they let themselves and everyone else down last weekend, yet they still have a lot to play for. I might be worried if I were the other team. This is one game I never give a score prediction on, because you can throw everything you think you know out the window because anything can happen …
@BuckeyeEmpire – In order to bounce back and beat TTUN this team needs to realize that they should still be continuing to play for each other. This will be the final game for many members of the team against the Wolverines, and although a shot at another national title looks to be completely out of reach, they will forever remember another set of gold pants. I think as long as Urban is calling the plays the Buckeyes can pull this out. It’ll be a low scoring game.
Buckeyes 20 – TTUN – 17
@TheBuckeyeNinja – I think in some ways this loss could prove to be a blessing in disguise for the team’s prospects this weekend. Had they beaten Sparty changes might have been backburnered; instead this could be a wake-up call for some folks. The Buckeyes being an underdog according to Vegas might finally allow Urban to use some of that “No one believes in you!” motivation we always hear about.
On the other hand…it’s very possible that the problems with the offense may be too much to fix in just seven days. Let’s not forget the defensive embarrassments of 2013 weren’t actually addressed until the following offseason and had the B1G championship and Orange Bowl gone differently perhaps wouldn’t have been addressed at all. (Remember the whole “Did we win?” BS during the season when people were questioning the defense? Pepperidge Farm remembers.)
On the OTHER hand (back to the first hand, I guess) Muck Fichigan.
21-17 Buckeyes.
@Jus10Dam – In closing, it is an injustice to this team that a loss so late in the season had to happen to bring the troubled play calling to the forefront. Moving forward, the Buckeye faithful hope to see improvement much like they have with the development of Luke Fickell.
The post tBBC Fans Interact: Ohio State Versus Sparty appeared first on The Buckeye Battle Cry: Ohio State News and Commentary.
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