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Red Zone Wah-wah

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BuckeyeNation27;650296; said:
1. I never said the defense should get credit for everything.
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Bullshit. You specifically said, "I would like to think we didn't just drop the ball on the ground....so you have to give credit to the opponents D for fumbles."

BuckeyeNation27;650296; said:
A fumble is a defensive stop because the play before the fumble something happened where the defense prevented us from scoring.
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So, if Ginn rips off a 78-yard run from our 20 to the opponents' 2, and on the subsequent play Wells muffs a perfectly-placed pitchout and the ball is recovered by the defense, it's a "defensive stop" in your mind because although Wells botched the pitch and the recovery was solely because of his miscue, the defense on the previous play "held" Ginn to a 78-yard gain. :roll1:

In the books, it's a defensive stop...in reality, it's us shooting ourselves in the foot. That's the whole point...if you fail, or refuse, to grasp this simplest of concepts, then there's no use talking anymore.
 
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CleveBucks;650223; said:
We better modify our defensive red zone staistics. MSU would've had 1st and goal at the 2 except for a silly holding penalty, they ended up with nothing.

PSU had 4th and 6 inches before an unforced false start. They got 3 instead of 7.
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I never said we should change the stats. I said that the our offensive red zone stats didn't reflect why we didn't score those seven times. You, too, are right in that our defensive stats don't exactly reflect why the opposition didn't score. Again, I never said that stats were wrong...
 
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Thump;650518; said:
That's it, time for a vMud wrestling match to settle this dispute.
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Only you would want to watch two guys mud-wrestle...

hoe-moe.gif
 
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MililaniBuckeye said:
Bullshit. You specifically said, "I would like to think we didn't just drop the ball on the ground....so you have to give credit to the opponents D for fumbles."


So, if Ginn rips off a 78-yard run from our 20 to the opponents' 2, and on the subsequent play Wells muffs a perfectly-placed pitchout and the ball is recovered by the defense, it's a "defensive stop" in your mind because although Wells botched the pitch and the recovery was solely because of his miscue, the defense on the previous play "held" Ginn to a 78-yard gain. :roll1:

In the books, it's a defensive stop...in reality, it's us shooting ourselves in the foot. That's the whole point...if you fail, or refuse, to grasp this simplest of concepts, then there's no use talking anymore.
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1. That doesn't mean the defense should get credit for everything.
2. Now you're catching on.
 
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BuckeyeNation27;650881; said:
1. That doesn't mean the defense should get credit for everything.
2. Now you're catching on.
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1. If you're admitting that the defense should not get credit for an offense's blunder, now you're catching on...
2. Uh, my whole point--from the beginning--was that there'e a difference between the stats and reality. I've "caught on" from the beginning.

Damn, it never gets old being right...
 
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MililaniBuckeye;651066; said:
I never argued either way, but did address it in post #17 above. You know exactly what my point was, and yet you jump in just to argue...
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I honestly missed that post (I read your celebratory post here, saw the msu ?, and didn't check past page 1 for a reply). Personally, I think a defense gets credit for stopping an offense. There are a variety of excuses for the offensive execution, some more reasonable than others, but how many plays involve great execution from everyone on the field anyway?

I'm not a big fan of the 'yeah but if X didn't happen' argument, whether it helps our 'red zone possession' stats or 'run D' stats. I'd love to see the fireworks if NDChief tried an argument like that during an OSU-ND game thread.
 
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