QB/WR Terrelle Pryor ('10 Rose, '11 Sugar MVP)

[super_mario]

Then look at other schools recruiting him. ND never has running QBs. If they are telling him he has a good chance of beating out Claussen anytime soon, then that's not super true. Same with Michigan and Mallett.

IMO the depth chart at Michigan would actually be favorable to a guy like Terrelle Pryor. His #1 overall ranking by Rivals is based on his athletic ability and potential, not on what he is as a QB right now. Pryor is not a good enough passer IMO, to play as a freshman. Realistically he's going to have to redshirt. If Vince Young- the player that Pryor gets compared to all the time and who was a much better passer at the same stage than Pryor, had to take a redshirt, then Pryor will have to take one as well. Especially since Pryor's got it in his mind that he can play QB and basketball.

In terms of UM's depth chart, Mallett isn't redshirting. He's the #2 QB on the depth chart in 2007. If Mallett is as good as everybody thinks, very real possibility he could be three and done. The NFL will be knocking on his door. The NFL still drafts on physical ability and potential. Jemarcus Russell just went #1 overall despite not really having an incredible college career. He was OKAY in college, and had a good college career but nothing that special IMO. Russell went #1 overall because he was 6'6, 260 and could throw the ball 90 yards and through a brickwall IMO.

 

[sandgk]

From the film I've viewed, he is an average passer. The film on him isn't the best quality - a lot of ground level shots that don't really give you the best view of how an entire play develops - so it may not reveal the whole picture, but I've never seen a lot of zip on his passes. His most impressive passes are deep lobs that are jump ball situations. He is not a polished passer, whatsoever IMO.

Sounds like the knocks many put on Quinn after two years under Weis

And the stats this guy put up through the air aren't overwhelming either. He completed 92 of 163 passes for 1,732 yards, and threw for 15 touchdowns to 11 INT's. I know he's only a junior, but for all the Vince Young comparisons they aren't quite there if you ask me. Vince threw 35 TD's to 4 INT's as a senior. Physically, they compare. But developmentally? Not so sure. Again, HS statistics should be taken with a large grain of salt. But they do serve as some level of indicator.

OK - but ...

Would it be fairer to compare VY's Junior HS stats with Pryor's Junior HS stats?
Pryor as a Junior at Jeannette, 1,732 yards passing, 1,676 yards rushing and 44 total touchdowns as a junior, 29 of which came on the ground. (There is perhaps another hidden stat in there vs VY, but more on that later).
VY as Junior in HS, 78-135 for 1309 yards and 16 TDs, 760 yds on the ground, 14 rush TDs. Not shabby, but not like record setting Senior year.
Looks like Pryor wins Junior head-to-head scoring production vs VY.
Link - VY Junior Stats in Texas bio

OK, now what about the hidden stat I hinted at earlier? Well, consider this: Young had a better supporting cast around him at James Madison High in Houston than Pryor has at Jeannette. This may explain why Young did not have to account for so many scores on the ground as a Junior, and had a better receiving corps around him as a Senior (the year you chose to pit against Pryor's apparently woeful 15 TD passing production ). Plus, at the halfway point of his Senior season Young was "only" on a pace to net around 1700 yards.

The huge last games helped boost that number.

So, Pryor is a very rare athlete,
....
He's definitely a high upside talent, with work that needs to be done.

Based on VY's Junior High School statistics one could say very much the same thing about him. Looks like the Pryor to Young comparative is a good one in my view, except we do not know yet whether Pryor will be better than VY, as good or not in college.

 

[HBGCrusader]

FYI, those 11 INT's are on the defensive side of the ball, TP plays Safety too.

 

[osugrad21]

FYI, those 11 INT's are on the defensive side of the ball, TP plays Safety too.

...and looked pretty darn good

 

[sandgk]

FYI, those 11 INT's are on the defensive side of the ball, TP plays Safety too.

Actually though that is tremendously funny as written, truth is he did give up 11 INTs. Here are his stats prior to the championship game, in which he sent one final INT into the opposition's hands in a 28-29 loss.

Passing Terrelle Pryor

Comp. 87 Att. 155 Int. 10 Yds. 1,627 TDs 14

 

[craigblitz]

I am not familiar with the school VY played for but I know the competition Jennette is not that great so comparing stats might not be the best comparison.

Muck, you also you asked why I excluded Ohio State from schools that might be a best fit. I do not see Pryor and Smith as the same type of QB. In fact I do not think it is a good comparison at all. I can not think of any QB at Ohio State that could be compared to Pryor.

In regards to Pryor on defense, he plays as a Rover it appears to me. It is obvious he is a ridiculous athlete and he is allowed to roam freely on defense. In the championship game I watched him doing so cost a couple of touchdowns.

Regardless, he is a top flight athlete who any program would love to have!

 

[IrishCalves]

sandgk:

First, I did note the difference between Jr and Sr years, if you read carefully. Only reason I used those two is because I couldn't dig up VY's junior stats on my own. So for that, thank you. I really would have preferred to compare Jr stats, but for me it was difficult to find.

Second, if you're going to go with the supporting cast argument for VY, you could also build a case for stiffer competition. More often than not, Texas produces better talent and competition than Pennsylvania. So while VY had better guys on his squad, you could also easily argue that he went up against better athletes as well.

But honestly, if you're the #1 athlete/QB in the country, does it really matter how good the guys are you're playing with or against?

I didn't rip into Pryor, call him woeful, or say he's a terrible prospect at all. If you think thats what I was getting at, you're mistaken. I think you're trying to read into the critical elements too much, if you ask me. Buckeye fans will look at the positives - I get that. Any fan that looks at the #1 prospect in the nation, and has a shot at him is prone to drink the cool aid. All I'm pointing out is, there is more than one indicator to suggest that he's got a ways to go as far as developing as a passer. He's still raw, and he's not a "perfect" football player yet. Thats all I'm saying. We'll just have to wait 'til his senior year to see what improvements he has made.

 

[LordJeffBuck]

Great discussion so far. This thread is a perfect example of why BP is the premier forum for Buckeye recruiting and discussion.

RE: Vince vs. Terrelle - I have said many times that it is really unfair to compare a high school junior (Terrelle) with a legend of college football (Vince). It makes for interesting conversation, but Vince has already proved himself at the highest level that college football has to offer (and is continuing his success in the NFL), and Terrelle hasn't even suited up for a college team yet. Terrelle Pryor has great upside potential, but Vince Young is a futue CFB Hall of Famer.

 

[HotMic]

sandgk:

First, I did note the difference between Jr and Sr years, if you read carefully. Only reason I used those two is because I couldn't dig up VY's junior stats on my own. So for that, thank you. I really would have preferred to compare Jr stats, but for me it was difficult to find.

Second, if you're going to go with the supporting cast argument for VY, you could also build a case for stiffer competition. More often than not, Texas produces better talent and competition than Pennsylvania. So while VY had better guys on his squad, you could also easily argue that he went up against better athletes as well.

But honestly, if you're the #1 athlete/QB in the country, does it really matter how good the guys are you're playing with or against?

I didn't rip into Pryor, call him woeful, or say he's a terrible prospect at all. If you think thats what I was getting at, you're mistaken. I think you're trying to read into the critical elements too much, if you ask me. Buckeye fans will look at the positives - I get that. Any fan that looks at the #1 prospect in the nation, and has a shot at him is prone to drink the cool aid. All I'm pointing out is, there is more than one indicator to suggest that he's got a ways to go as far as developing as a passer. He's still raw, and he's not a "perfect" football player yet. Thats all I'm saying. We'll just have to wait 'til his senior year to see what improvements he has made.

Good stuff. It will be interesting to see how much improvement Pryor make from his junior year to his senior year. All that said, someone with his athletic ability more than makes up for what he lacks in passing ability (at least for now IMO). Now that isn't going to cover him forever...there have been a ton of guys with great athletic ability that never panned out on the field. Despite how good the teams he plays are, you can't deny the superior athletic ability that this kid brings to the table.

 

[sandgk]

IrishCalves - I didn't think you were getting at a "woeful" descriptive, I was simply pointing up the comparison. After all, that wink sign post the "woeful" phrase was there for a reason. I think we both agree that putting junior stats vs. junior stats is a fairer comparison. Glad I could find those, because unless you knew they were on the Young bio page, a straightforward Google search might make it seem they had fallen from the face of the earth. I remember them being cited by a 'Horn fan in a Troy vs. Young comparison leading up to TX vs. tOSU so knew where to look.

You have a very fair point about relative strength of competition, and Madison does play stronger competition than Jeannette, but that also means the supporting cast at Jeannette is thinner. Hence the good performance at safety for Pryor last year.

 

[IrishCalves]

IrishCalves - I didn't think you were getting at a "woeful" descriptive, I was simply pointing up the comparison. After all, that wink sign post the "woeful" phrase was there for a reason. I think we both agree that putting junior stats vs. junior stats is a fairer comparison. Glad I could find those, because unless you knew they were on the Young bio page, a straightforward Google search might make it seem they had fallen from the face of the earth. I remember them being cited by a 'Horn fan in a Troy vs. Young comparison leading up to TX vs. tOSU so knew where to look.

You have a very fair point about relative strength of competition, and Madison does play stronger competition than Jeannette, but that also means the supporting cast at Jeannette is thinner. Hence the good performance at safety for Pryor last year.

Nice give and take. This is why I should start talking to my ND lads who rip on your fan base too much.

 

[Napoleonbuck]

I think Pryor's "rawness" is often overstated. From the video I've seen, he's not going to throw the ball like some of the premier pocket passers in the nation, but there's no doubt that he has a good arm. He's accurate if given the right situation. I think it would be interesting to see how many of those interceptions were thrown on the run with Pryor trying to create something out of nothing. I'd guess that at least half would fall into that catergory. I don't recally seeing anything wrong with his mechanics.

Pryor's development as a quarterback will be incredibly similar to any other QB. He'll have to learn to run a more complex offense, he'll have to learn patience in the pocket(which Troy didn't really master until the tail end of his junior year and VY didn't master until his junior year). Is he raw? Yeah, but I don't see anything in his throwing motion that would need to be messed with. It's basically just him adjusting to the learning curve of college football.

 

[BuckeyeKilla]

It's worth noting that Vince played on a GREAT team with a much better receiving corp than anything Pryor has.

 

[cheetah]

The local recrruiting experts think that Pryor isn't so raw either. They say he needs some work but that's only because he has never really concentrated on being a college football QB yet. They feel he is smart and once he gets the right training it won't be long before he becomes more than just a highly athletic QB.

 

[RB07OSU]

I think he is throwing motion is fluid, he has a quick release, he has good to great arm strength, and appears to have great pocket presence. It ultimately comes down to is he a good QB and not just a great athlete? VY was always a great athlete but wasn't a great QB until the couple of games leading up to the Texas vs. Michigan game his junior year. Same with Troy Smith and the OSU vs. Michigan game RS sophmore year (quick side note...notice something in common? ) But the fact is that the great athletes are limited in their play in even college football at the QB position...you have to be a great QB also. So does he win games when they are on the line? Does he put the time in the film room like a VY or TS? Is he smart about ball control? Is he a good field general? These are all questions that simply can't be answered until he steps out on the field after a couple years of experience. You don't see that on film or truly know from an interview. All we can say now is that he is a great athlete that has the potential to be a Vince Young based on his HS play and athleticism, but we will have to wait to see if he does have the intangibles of a Vince Young to become a great QB and not just a great athlete.