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QB progression

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SCBuck

Offensive Coordinator
The debate between buckeye fans over the last few weeks' offense, seems to be boiling down to JT's offense vs. TS execution. I have never played QB at any level. I came across this quote from BN$
One criticism of Smith is that he does not seem to go through his progressions. He looks for his primary receiver – which is usually a short or intermediate route – and if he’s not open, Smith usually looks to run. That might be one reason why there has not been more deep passes so far this season.
“I just try and execute the game plan that we have to the best of my abilities,” Smith said. “I’m sure if you talk to any quarterback around – unless it’s a design play call to go deep first – it goes in a progression of short, mid-range, to deep. That’s the way routes usually are.”
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I've never heard a QB say that. I began wondering. Is this how every QB is taught, or is this what JT teaches?
Could this be why we see so many short passes?
Can anybody out there enlighten me?
PLEASE ADVISE. Thanks
 
I was under the impression that each pass play has a designated receiver that is supposed to get the ball. If that player is not open, the QB is supposed to go through his progressions. Which may in fact be "short, mid-range, then long" but I have no clue.
 
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SIMV is correct. Almost every single pass play has a primary receiver. If that receiver is covered, then there are secondary routes. Whether it is short, medium, then deep depends on who the primary guy is (as far as how deep his route is, what the coverage is, which side of the field, etc.). I don't think anyone can honestly say that the progressions are always short to deep.
 
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FKAGobucks877 said:
SIMV is correct. Almost every single pass play has a primary receiver. If that receiver is covered, then there are secondary routes. Whether it is short, medium, then deep depends on who the primary guy is (as far as how deep his route is, what the coverage is, which side of the field, etc.). I don't think anyone can honestly say that the progressions are always short to deep.
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agreed. it is probably a safe bet that the majority of the time the progressions run short to deep simply because deep routes take longer to run. however, there are certainly plays where the primary routes are mid-deep and the short route is the safety valve.

that being said, regardless of what the progression breakdown is, smith really doesnt look to his 2nd and 3rd options much.
 
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All pass plays start with a primary reciever and usually have several other recievers who set up secondary routes. Most secondary routes are short to mid range like comebacks, drags, etc. I think it's funny how some people talk about "progressions" as if the QB sits back and says nope hes not open, how bout #2, nope hes not open, how bout #3. The QB has to make a split second decision because most decent D's will have players in his face within 3 to 4 seconds of the snap. The key to any pass play is being able to figure out what coverage a team is in presnap. Most of the time if you can do that as a QB there is a good chance you know what WR will be open ahead of time, for example deep posts against a cover 2 or curls or outs against a soft cover 3. One thing I have noticed is that once in awhile Troy needs to trust his WR's and just go deep for the sake of stretching the D. We really need to send Hamby down the middle of the field as opposed to those 5 yard drags. He has the size to go over the top against a lot of LB's plus it would help our running game immensly if we could actually get those LB's to bite a little on PA, which they're not doing. Hopefully we see some steps forward this weekend.

:oh: GO BUCKS!!!:io:
 
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GiNn AnD ToNiC said:
All pass plays start with a primary reciever and usually have several other recievers who set up secondary routes. Most secondary routes are short to mid range like comebacks, drags, etc. I think it's funny how some people talk about "progressions" as if the QB sits back and says nope hes not open, how bout #2, nope hes not open, how bout #3. The QB has to make a split second decision because most decent D's will have players in his face within 3 to 4 seconds of the snap. The key to any pass play is being able to figure out what coverage a team is in presnap. Most of the time if you can do that as a QB there is a good chance you know what WR will be open ahead of time, for example deep posts against a cover 2 or curls or outs against a soft cover 3. One thing I have noticed is that once in awhile Troy needs to trust his WR's and just go deep for the sake of stretching the D. We really need to send Hamby down the middle of the field as opposed to those 5 yard drags. He has the size to go over the top against a lot of LB's plus it would help our running game immensly if we could actually get those LB's to bite a little on PA, which they're not doing. Hopefully we see some steps forward this weekend.
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Actually you are wrong. Progressions do start with one receiver and go through the rest. Because an offense puts a premium on putting recievers into the pattern during a passing play, there should always be someone open. Forcing the ball (throwing into coverage) on offense destroys the offensive scheme. Not only does it tend to result in turnovers, but the receivers in the later progressions (often the TE and RBs) are less likely to runout their patterns. The quickest way for a QB to get pulled from the starting position is for them to start forcing the ball into coverage rather than throwing underneath or to uncovered receivers. When we have passing trees that start short and end long (due to QB decisions) there is no out. It seemed to me against SDSU that Troy was starting short, then looking downfield.
 
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Mr. I is right. There are always progressions. There is always a primary receiver, and at least one, but usually multiple secondary receivers. Which of those secondary receivers becomes the second option may depend on coverage, and that coverage may well be up to the QB to read, but the order of the "checkdown" receivers is still determined ahead of time, in practice. As for the rest, the main reason you usually see a RB in the flat or just past the LOS is because he is the "bailout" guy, in case the QB is pressured and doesn't have time to make the read.
 
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Something that was discussed in one of the interminable offense/QB threads on this site was the complaint, "Why does Troy take off and run instead of waiting for a receiver to come open?"

I'd been thinking about this, noting that Krenzel always had the green light to pick up yards with his feet, and not remembering ever hearing Tressel say that a QB didn't stay in the pocket long enough. Then this gem pops up in todays quotes and notes:

Smith's toughness leads Tressel to believe that he can hold up under the hitting he will not doubt take as a quarterback who is likely to tuck the ball and run. Tressel said that he will not discourage Smith from carry the ball, and for good reason.

"We have research all the way back through Craig that when we step up and run on a pass play, it's our leading rush per play," said Tressel.

"It's in the neighborhood of 10 yards per rush. We don't have any runs that average ten yards. I think Craig his last year had upwards of 55 step-ups we call them for nearly ten yards per carry. We always encourage those, not discourage them."
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Those "tuck-and-runs" or step-ups are coached as a part of this offense. I guess that kind of fits into the whole progressions topic -- it's something to consider as a factor when wondering why the deep routes aren't being utilized.
 
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The primary receiver depends on the pre-snap read, however, with masked coverages, that primary receiver can change quickly. Also, the QB is reading various keys in play...for instance, we run a version of a read pass with the SE running a "cadillac" 12-14 yard crossing route, the TE settles in the LB gap, and the FL runs a post. The QB reads the safety to see if he bites up on the Cadillac...if he does, he hits the post, if not..he goes to the Cadillac...and if they are both covered or pressure is on, drop it off to the TE. Progressions vary according to coverage and play.

Other than that, you guys are right on.
 
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osugrad21 said:
The primary receiver depends on the pre-snap read, however, with masked coverages, that primary receiver can change quickly. Also, the QB is reading various keys in play...for instance, we run a version of a read pass with the SE running a "cadillac" 12-14 yard crossing route, the TE settles in the LB gap, and the FL runs a post. The QB reads the safety to see if he bites up on the Cadillac...if he does, he hits the post, if not..he goes to the Cadillac...and if they are both covered or pressure is on, drop it off to the TE. Progressions vary according to coverage and play.

Other than that, you guys are right on.
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Exactly. Pre-snap reads are huge, and many of the (post-snap) QB reads come from the safeties to the play side. As OG21 said, if a defense is cloaking their defense to try to trick the QB into thinking a different coverage, the pre-snap could change a few times. However, once the ball is snapped those safeties will tell all like a drunk chick.
 
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osugrad21 said:
The primary receiver depends on the pre-snap read, however, with masked coverages, that primary receiver can change quickly. Also, the QB is reading various keys in play...for instance, we run a version of a read pass with the SE running a "cadillac" 12-14 yard crossing route, the TE settles in the LB gap, and the FL runs a post. The QB reads the safety to see if he bites up on the Cadillac...if he does, he hits the post, if not..he goes to the Cadillac...and if they are both covered or pressure is on, drop it off to the TE. Progressions vary according to coverage and play.

Other than that, you guys are right on.
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Dude, just because you can apply my knowledge to real life football and convert it into a specific example doesn't make your post any more correct than mine. All you did is regurgitate what I said. Twice. Of course, you made it sound a hell of a lot better...damn this cold medicine!! :lol:
 
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Gentleman.....all of that stuff is great. But the problem is, Smith can't read or get through his progressions, so what does it all matter? That was quite evident last week, and I have seen this going back to last season. And now, opponents know this and will be prepared. SDST made asjustments at half and held Smith in check running, thus holding our offense to 2 FG. (defense gets TD for the fumble at one yd line). And this against a poor defense. What is going to happen against an average or better defense?
 
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