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Professor Claims Students Taking Notes Infringe on His Copyright

Odd statements by the Professor's lawyer:
But if a professor's lectures are copyrighted, aren't students already infringing just by taking the notes in the first place?
Yes, Sullivan answers, student notes do infringe, but they are protected infringement.
"That's absolutely fair use," Sullivan said.

If it is fair use by his lawyers admission then the students note taking does not constitute infringement.

This is aside from the more central issue, which is whether the re-sale of packaged notes constitutes infringement of copyright, or, if indeed a lecture series can be copyrighted in the manner of a book.

As for the Cliff's Notes issue, if that was skirting copyright law, wouldn't one of the large Academic publishers such as Prentice-Hall have been breathing down their neck?
 
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Sorry, but I think the professor likely wins this one.

"Fair use" refers to a provision of copyright law that enables a student to photocopy parts of books or journals for own use purposes. This generally is interpreted as a chapter of a book not exceeding 10% and one article per issue of a journal.

International copyright law prescribes how one can use copyrighted materials, even if one attributes the source of material. Because governments worldwide are interested in furthering education, international copyright law allows the "fair use" of materials in the limited way noted above. The law protects even the organization of material. To use an example, a local public speaker who is well known, attended a Tony Robbins (i.e., Personal Power guru) lecture in California and then returned to his home country and used the headers from the lecture notes to organize and write a book. The book contained original text throughout but Robbins argued that it constituted plagiarism and a copyright violation because it used his headers and was closely patterned after the lecture. After a one-hour meeting with their lawyers, the publisher immediately yanked the books off-shelf and destroyed them.

The professor's lawyer is arguing that the content of a lecture is provided as part of what a student pays to receive. In consideration for payment of tuition fees, students are enabled to attend lectures, receive all class materials, and to make notes in the classroom. These days, it is not uncommon for some professors to make additional coursepacks available that the professor has put considerable work into, so that students can concentrate better on class discussion and avoid note-taking. In universities where this is above and beyond expectations, professors often are told that they may only do this if they sell the notes at their own risk. So, a good teacher who wants to help students can find herself in exactly the place this professor seems to be.

Students pay their fees and buy books to receive content and are licensed to take notes in class to help them master the materials. Fair use use of copyrighted materials does not allow students to then pass notes on to a third party who has not purchased paid tuition fees, purchased the prescribed text, or met the other conditions of the offer.

The professor's argument is that a third party is paying students to take notes and share course materials so that these can be repackaged and sold at a lower price to students than the original notes. This robs the professor of an income stream that she is due in respect of having developed notes.

Now, if the university has a policy that notes are free to students, then another issue is at play here. Perhaps this professor is inflating the price of notes above the cost of reproduction and the prescribed text, which violates university policy, I don't know.

But as someone who's written a university text or two, let me say that I have seen diagrams and figures stolen from my books being used by others locally and in foreign countries without my permission. More likely than not, I have seen my work being passed off as if it were the original work of others. Let me also say that I have taken action immediately to stop this every time, beginning with the person's University President or Dean.

It isn't only students who try to steal your intellectual property for unlicensed use or to pass off as their own.

I have caught students and executive education program attendees trying to access my hard drive to download its contents during coffee breaks and lunch breaks. I have found electronically generated figures and tables from my books being used by executives as if they had developed the intellectual content on their own.

I even had the occasion to be in the audience once when one of these thieves was trying (badly) to pass off one of my concepts as his own. So, during question and answer time, I took him back to the slide and said that I understood that the content was developed by Professor Steve19. He had the stupidity to say that he and Steve19 were close friends who worked together on the idea; then he apologized for forgetting to note that Professor Steve19 also had something to do with the work. His life changed forever when I identified myself and placed on record we had never met and that he had nothing to do with the idea he had just presented as his own before all of his colleagues at the conference.

So, I am not so sure we should jump on the professor on this one. It sounds like a sleazy business that whispers to students that they can avoid lectures, buying the book, and buying the course pack "and still get an A in the course if you buy our notes." I might add that for this reason, I never use the same cases to illustrate the same concepts and never ask the same questions twice.
 
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Copyright (especially fair use) has become a really muddy and frustrating issue in the last ten years or so. Heck, professors are more and more limited as to what they can include in their PowerPoint presentations, especially when uploading them to WebCT/Blackboard/etc. I think this is sad. I think I would have a problem with the selling of class notes if this included full podcasted lectures or actual PowerPoint slides sold without the prof's permission, but I don't think class notes should fall under the professor's copyright. It will be interesting to see how this lawsuit plays out. Not too long ago some students sued TurnItIn.com, the antiplagiarism service, for using their papers to detect plagiarism cases. (Once you submit a paper to TurnItIn.com, that paper is then saved and used as part of their database.) The students' lawsuit was dismissed.

Creative Commons was started as a sort of backlash against the restrictive nature of copyright, and I applaud the efforts of CC to promote open creative works. And I love what OpenCourseWare is doing to bring the classroom to the rest of the world. But there again, OCW has to carefully evaluate the classroom materials posted. Most publishers say posting their copyrighted works (articles assigned as readings) is a no-no. This is too bad. It seems like open education works to promote the works of professors, but many educators don't see it this way. They're too worried about people stealing their work.
 
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Steve19;1133464; said:
Sorry, but I think the professor likely wins this one.

"Fair use" refers to a provision of copyright law that enables a student to photocopy parts of books or journals for own use purposes. This generally is interpreted as a chapter of a book not exceeding 10% and one article per issue of a journal.

International copyright law prescribes how one can use copyrighted materials, even if one attributes the source of material. Because governments worldwide are interested in furthering education, international copyright law allows the "fair use" of materials in the limited way noted above. The law protects even the organization of material. To use an example, a local public speaker who is well known, attended a Tony Robbins (i.e., Personal Power guru) lecture in California and then returned to his home country and used the headers from the lecture notes to organize and write a book. The book contained original text throughout but Robbins argued that it constituted plagiarism and a copyright violation because it used his headers and was closely patterned after the lecture. After a one-hour meeting with their lawyers, the publisher immediately yanked the books off-shelf and destroyed them.

The professor's lawyer is arguing that the content of a lecture is provided as part of what a student pays to receive. In consideration for payment of tuition fees, students are enabled to attend lectures, receive all class materials, and to make notes in the classroom. These days, it is not uncommon for some professors to make additional coursepacks available that the professor has put considerable work into, so that students can concentrate better on class discussion and avoid note-taking. In universities where this is above and beyond expectations, professors often are told that they may only do this if they sell the notes at their own risk. So, a good teacher who wants to help students can find herself in exactly the place this professor seems to be.

Students pay their fees and buy books to receive content and are licensed to take notes in class to help them master the materials. Fair use use of copyrighted materials does not allow students to then pass notes on to a third party who has not purchased paid tuition fees, purchased the prescribed text, or met the other conditions of the offer.

The professor's argument is that a third party is paying students to take notes and share course materials so that these can be repackaged and sold at a lower price to students than the original notes. This robs the professor of an income stream that she is due in respect of having developed notes.

Now, if the university has a policy that notes are free to students, then another issue is at play here. Perhaps this professor is inflating the price of notes above the cost of reproduction and the prescribed text, which violates university policy, I don't know.

But as someone who's written a university text or two, let me say that I have seen diagrams and figures stolen from my books being used by others locally and in foreign countries without my permission. More likely than not, I have seen my work being passed off as if it were the original work of others. Let me also say that I have taken action immediately to stop this every time, beginning with the person's University President or Dean.

It isn't only students who try to steal your intellectual property for unlicensed use or to pass off as their own.

I have caught students and executive education program attendees trying to access my hard drive to download its contents during coffee breaks and lunch breaks. I have found electronically generated figures and tables from my books being used by executives as if they had developed the intellectual content on their own.

I even had the occasion to be in the audience once when one of these thieves was trying (badly) to pass off one of my concepts as his own. So, during question and answer time, I took him back to the slide and said that I understood that the content was developed by Professor Steve19. He had the stupidity to say that he and Steve19 were close friends who worked together on the idea; then he apologized for forgetting to note that Professor Steve19 also had something to do with the work. His life changed forever when I identified myself and placed on record we had never met and that he had nothing to do with the idea he had just presented as his own before all of his colleagues at the conference.

So, I am not so sure we should jump on the professor on this one. It sounds like a sleazy business that whispers to students that they can avoid lectures, buying the book, and buying the course pack "and still get an A in the course if you buy our notes." I might add that for this reason, I never use the same cases to illustrate the same concepts and never ask the same questions twice.

Excellent, excellent post.
 
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I remember we had students in our classes at tOSU (both grad and undergrad) all the time who were working for some outfit or the other that retyped and packaged class notes that the prof hadn't made available in course packs. At the time I don't recall anybody making a big deal about it, though I understand Steve's points as well.

OSUsushichic;1133491; said:
And I love what OpenCourseWare is doing to bring the classroom to the rest of the world. But there again, OCW has to carefully evaluate the classroom materials posted. Most publishers say posting their copyrighted works (articles assigned as readings) is a no-no. This is too bad. It seems like open education works to promote the works of professors, but many educators don't see it this way. They're too worried about people stealing their work.

MIT's Open CourseWare absolutely ROCKS! :bow:
 
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shetuck;1133674; said:
I remember we had students in our classes at tOSU (both grad and undergrad) all the time who were working for some outfit or the other that retyped and packaged class notes that the prof hadn't made available in course packs. At the time I don't recall anybody making a big deal about it, though I understand Steve's points as well.

MIT's Open CourseWare absolutely ROCKS! :bow:

It does rock. I just hope it gets some funding when the initial grant runs out. It's expensive to operate, which seems to be the big concern right now.

Another point about the copyright issue. After reading a bit more about it, the professor turned all his copyright over to his publisher (as is the case in most contracts), and so the publisher is the one who is suing, not the professor. I can't stand when publishers do this, and I work for one! Professors need to be better educated about how they can retain at least some rights to their work.
 
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OSUsushichic;1133702; said:
It does rock. I just hope it gets some funding when the initial grant runs out. It's expensive to operate, which seems to be the big concern right now.

Will they leave the site and existing content up even if the grant's not renewed?

Do you know what it costs to run/operate? How much of the expenditure goes toward covering copyright and intellectual property provisions?
 
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shetuck;1133705; said:
Will they leave the site and existing content up even if the grant's not renewed?

Do you know what it costs to run/operate? How much of the expenditure goes toward covering copyright and intellectual property provisions?

I'm not sure about what happens to the content if the grant isn't renewed. The Hewlett/Mellon grants were $11 million, and others have donated as well (Google, etc.), but I don't know what the total figure is. MIT has devoted a lot of staff (admins, production, intellectual property and publication teams) and resources to this project. They even have OCW liaisons in most of the academic departments to help professors post their materials on the site.

Unfortunately, OCW has abandon most of it's efforts to post copyrighted materials. Many publishers are asking too much $$ in permissions, and it's simply not even worth trying. However, as evil as Elsevier can be, they did announce recently that they would offer free content to OCW for about 2,000 journals. That is promising.
 
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OSUsushichic;1133715; said:
I'm not sure about what happens to the content if the grant isn't renewed. The Hewlett/Mellon grants were $11 million, and others have donated as well (Google, etc.), but I don't know what the total figure is. MIT has devoted a lot of staff (admins, production, intellectual property and publication teams) and resources to this project. They even have OCW liaisons in most of the academic departments to help professors post their materials on the site.

Unfortunately, OCW has abandon most of it's efforts to post copyrighted materials. Many publishers are asking too much $$ in permissions, and it's simply not even worth trying. However, as evil as Elsevier can be, they did announce recently that they would offer free content to OCW for about 2,000 journals. That is promising.

Well I hope it gets straightened out before the material becomes elligible for inclusion on Project Gutenberg... :biggrin:

EDIT: That's not a rip on PG which, imo, is another tremendous initiative.
 
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I just looked at the MIT courseware site, Sushi, and the content for marketing courses does not include detailed lecture notes. The various course files typically course outlines and reading lists and the content is dated from 2002-2004. Occasionally, there is a file containing four or five slides from a PowerPoint file for a lecture.

So, at least in the five courses I examined, the content on OCW is nothing like what the professor or his publisher is filing suit over. Also, in a fast-moving domain such as marketing, the content doesn't really reveal much about what is actually being learned in MIT Sloan classes.
 
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shetuck;1133674; said:
I remember we had students in our classes at tOSU (both grad and undergrad) all the time who were working for some outfit or the other that retyped and packaged class notes that the prof hadn't made available in course packs. At the time I don't recall anybody making a big deal about it, though I understand Steve's points as well.

I too remember that at OSU in the 80's and I actually used the company's services for a couple of Anthropology lectures that I missed. There wasn't a big deal made about this back in the 80's, but then again, e-books didn't exist back then either.
 
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buckiprof;1133903; said:
I too remember that at OSU in the 80's and I actually used the company's services for a couple of Anthropology lectures that I missed. There wasn't a big deal made about this back in the 80's, but then again, e-books didn't exist back then either.

Not that it makes a big difference, but I was there in the early/mid 90's. If I'm not mistaken, the companies would pay some kind of fee to the prof.
 
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Steve19;1133893; said:
I just looked at the MIT courseware site, Sushi, and the content for marketing courses does not include detailed lecture notes. The various course files typically course outlines and reading lists and the content is dated from 2002-2004. Occasionally, there is a file containing four or five slides from a PowerPoint file for a lecture.

So, at least in the five courses I examined, the content on OCW is nothing like what the professor or his publisher is filing suit over. Also, in a fast-moving domain such as marketing, the content doesn't really reveal much about what is actually being learned in MIT Sloan classes.

I wasn't implying that MIT's OCW can serve as a substitute for sitting in a classroom at Sloan or any other serious MBA course. Also, I wasn't trying to imply that MIT's OCW is legally similar to the legal case in this thread.

To be fair, though, the marketing toolbox (as taught in most serious MBA programs) appears to be the most dynamic among the core MBA disciplines - i.e. it's continually shifting, changing, and being updated / made relevant. But I suppose that's what the qualitative side of marketing is essentially about.

I've referred to MIT's OCW when I'm trying to connect dots that somehow aren't connected in my own head. I also use it when I'm trying to quickly get a sense of the "vernacular" in some field or the other. I don't try and use it as a substitute for actually sitting in a classroom and learning the theory and/or application from a knowledge-area expert.
 
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