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Postseason Awards Tracker & Comments

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Thump said:
No way a reliever should ever win the Cy Young.
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Right on there, Thump. Let him win the Rolaids relief award.

You just can't compare BAA, Whip, or any stats for that matter between a starter and a closer. Starter face guys multiple times in a game and get tired as a game proceeds. Closers come in and pitch 1 inning, big deal.

Starters face the opponents best hitters at least 3 times a game, the closer faces whoever is up in the 9th inning.

Rivera only pitched 78 innings in 71 games, so basically he pitched 1 inning per appearance.

He's a great closer, but closers do not deserve the Cy Young.

I'd take a very good starter over a great closer 7 days a week.

Old man Todd Jones , who only had 16 saves the last 4 years, had 40 saves and only gave up 2 hr in 73ip. Bob Wickman :45 saves.

Rivera, while very good at what he does, is still a closer.
 
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Bucky Katt: "However, I do find it a tad ironic that you note how high Colon's ERA (3.48) was this year, not too long after arguing that Petitte should have won it in 1996 with a 3.87 ERA versus Hentgen with a 3.22."

Good point. I'm glad you brought it up.

First off, in any given season, you have to compare the candidates. Are Pettite's '96 numbers worthy of a Cy Young when there's a Pedro '00, a Santana '04, or a Gibson '68 out there? Of course not.

In 1996, Pettitte's ERA was 8th in the AL. Hentgen's 3.22 was 2nd. This was a poor year for pitching, because I believe Juan Guzman led the league with a 2.93. There were only 2 20 game winners in the AL that season: Pettitte & Hentgen, and no relievers worthy of the award. Unless you want to give it to the Great Mo, who was a set-up man at the time (that aint happenin').

To me, Pettite's extra win and better Win PCT offset Hentgen's advantage in ERA. All the other numbers are equivalent. So, the fact that Pettitte pitched on a Division winner as opposed to a guy who pitched in meaningless games all season is the difference.

Thump: "No way a reliever should ever win the Cy Young."

I disagree. A great closer is as valuable to a team as anybody.
 
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Sloopy45 said:
Good point. I'm glad you brought it up.

First off, in any given season, you have to compare the candidates. Are Pettite's '96 numbers worthy of a Cy Young when there's a Pedro '00, a Santana '04, or a Gibson '68 out there? Of course not.

In 1996, Pettitte's ERA was 8th in the AL. Hentgen's 3.22 was 2nd. This was a poor year for pitching, because I believe Juan Guzman led the league with a 2.93. There were only 2 20 game winners in the AL that season: Pettitte & Hentgen, and no relievers worthy of the award. Unless you want to give it to the Great Mo, who was a set-up man at the time (that aint happenin').

To me, Pettite's extra win and better Win PCT offset Hentgen's advantage in ERA. All the other numbers are equivalent. So, the fact that Pettitte pitched on a Division winner as opposed to a guy who pitched in meaningless games all season is the difference.
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That's pretty much what I figured in regards to relative ERA among the leaders. I have no problem at all with that answer. :)
 
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Sloopy45 said:
Thump: "Wonder what the old time pitchers like Walter Johnson would think about a relief pitcher winning the Cy Young."

Its a different time, and a different game, my man. It has evolved.
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I know but you're telling me that guys today with so much more weight training and physical conditioning are unable to go 9 innings like the pitchers of old?

Bullshit, the only reason the game is different is money and greed!

If you consider yourself a "True" baseball fan there's 2 things that you should believe, a DH shouldn't win the MVP and a reliever should NEVER win the Cy Young.

Period.
 
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I agree with you on the reliever, but the MVP is given out based offensive stats so a DH could be included.

If you're going to argue they don't play the field does that really make a difference? At least, look at some of the outfielder positions. How many times do they actually touch the ball a game? Maybe 5-8 ? Now, infielders is a different story, but of rarely touch the ball enough to get tired.

If the MVP is between a dh and a position player, like this year, and the numbers are close, then you have to go with the position player every day, even if he is a Yankee! :biggrin:
 
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Thump: "I know but you're telling me that guys today with so much more weight training and physical conditioning are unable to go 9 innings like the pitchers of old?"

Dude, there's a million factors that go into it. You watch a lot of baseball: do you think most starters can pitch an (underline) effective 9 Innings on a consistent basis nowadays?

Pitchers of old threw off higher mounds, don't throw as fast, or as much of a variety of breaking stuff (more stress on the arms), some of them (way back in Johnson's era) threw spitballs, it was the dead ball era too, and lets face it: their opposition is hitting the weight room as much as they are. Its a much tougher road to hoe in the modern day ..

"Bullshit, the only reason the game is different is money and greed!"

Agreed. Its not the only factor, but it is the biggest. But this is a story for another day.

"If you consider yourself a "True" baseball fan there's 2 things that you should believe, a DH shouldn't win the MVP and a reliever should NEVER win the Cy Young."

This statement is ridiculous. MVPs & Cy Youngs are relative, not absolutes. If a Closer has a stellar season, and no starter has a great year, then he deserves the Cy Young. Ditto for the DH and MVP.
 
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Thump said:
That's 5-8 times more than a DH does!
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And because he touches the ball 5-8 times more, that justifies him for an MVP vote over a DH? If that's the case, then let's give MVP's to 1B, pitchers or catchers because they touch the ball the most.

I'm in the minority but I'd much rather watch a dh hit than a pitcher. But, if they were abolished, I wouldn't lose any sleep either.
 
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<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=yspsctnhdln>Carpenter wins NL Cy Young Award</TD></TR><TR><TD height=7><SPACER width="1" type="block" height="1"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>By MIKE FITZPATRICK, AP Baseball Writer
November 10, 2005
NEW YORK (AP) -- Chris Carpenter of the St. Louis Cardinals won the NL Cy Young Award on Thursday, capping a satisfying comeback from shoulder surgery that jeopardized his career only a few years ago.
After going 21-5 with a 2.83 ERA, Carpenter received 19 of 32 first-place votes and finished with 132 points in balloting by the Baseball Writers' Association of America. He beat out Florida lefty Dontrelle Willis, becoming the first Cardinals pitcher to claim the honor since Bob Gibson in 1970.
Willis, who was 22-10 with a 2.63 ERA, was listed first on 11 ballots, second on 18 and third on three for 112 points. Seven-time winner Roger Clemens got the other two first-place votes and came in a distant third at age 43.
The Rocket led the majors with a 1.87 ERA, but a lack of run support from his NL champion Houston Astros limited Clemens to a 13-8 record, which surely cost him votes.
Voting for all BBWAA awards is conducted at the end of the regular season and excludes the playoffs, when Carpenter went 2-0 with a 2.14 ERA in three starts. But St. Louis was eliminated by the Astros in the NL championship series.
The right-hander began his career with Toronto and had surgery in September 2002 to repair a tear in his pitching shoulder. The Blue Jays wanted to send him back to the minors, but he refused the assignment and chose to become a free agent before signing with St. Louis.
Carpenter missed the 2003 season while rehabilitating his shoulder, and was forced to have another operation in July to remove scar tissue.
The Cardinals were determined to remain patient. But at that point, who knew if they would ever get much from him?
Finally healthy in 2004, Carpenter went 15-5 with a 3.46 ERA. But he missed the postseason because of a biceps injury, and St. Louis was swept in the World Series by Boston.
Carpenter won 13 straight decisions this year from June 14 through Sept. 8, helping the Cardinals to the best record in baseball (100-62). He threw 241 2-3 innings and struck out 213 batters.
He and Willis led the NL with seven complete games apiece. Willis had five shutouts to Carpenter's four.
Bartolo Colon of the Los Angeles Angels won the AL Cy Young Award on Tuesday. The next award to be handed out is the AL MVP on Monday.
Gibson is the only other St. Louis winner, taking the honor in 1968 and '70. Carpenter gets a $50,000 bonus for winning the award, and Clemens gets $25,000 for finishing third.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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