Oversigning (capacity 25, everyone welcome! maybe)

[BB73]

The solution is simple if the NCAA wants one. I believe Bo Schembechler proposed something like this many years ago.

When an LOI is signed, it would count as one of the 25 scholarships for that year. It cannot be reused until 4 years later, unless the player graduates. Also, only 85 LOIs can be received within any 4-year period.

Since the schools can only receive 25 LOIs in a given year, if the players don't qualify academically, that becomes the school's problem, and oversigning isn't an option to remedy the player not qualifying.

Colleges would need to recruit players that belong in college, not just football players who have a chance at qualifying.

Of course, with the provision that the scholarship can be re-used if the player graduates, I can see some schools managing to graduate a bunch of guys in 3 years. But the 25 and 85 LOI limits would prevent that from being exploited very much.

To me, this seemingly addresses most of the issues with oversigning. The major reason for the 85/25 limits was to stop schools from stocking up on players that wouldn't all see the field, benefiting the athletes and resulting in more parity among college teams.

If a guy plays football in a given season, and is on scholarship, he has to be counted as one of the 25/85. No academic scholarships should be allowed to stock extra football players. If a guy gets a legitimate medical hardship, he can stay on scholarship, but his LOI can't be freed up until the 4-year clock is up (or he graduates). It's just tough luck, but it's not another loophole to stash guys that aren't great players so they can be replaced with another warm body.

Some will say that this would harm guys that are marginal qualifiers. I think that more of them will end up at Sun Belt schools instead of the SEC, many of whose members would be forced to be more selective under the revised 85/25 LOI rules. That would also improve parity. Thus, I don't expect SEC Commissioner Mike Slive to support this proposal.

The intent of the original rules was to limit the number of players each team could take - those rules are being circumvented. Applying the limits to LOIs, rather than the way certain teams are allowed to exploit them, would restore the original intent of the scholarship limitations.

 

[Tlangs]

The solution is simple if the NCAA wants one. I believe Bo Schembechler proposed something like this many years ago.

When an LOI is signed, it would count as one of the 25 scholarships for that year. It cannot be reused until 4 years later, unless the player graduates. Also, only 85 LOIs can be received within any 4-year period.

Since the schools can only receive 25 LOIs in a given year, if the players don't qualify academically, that becomes the school's problem, and oversigning isn't an option to remedy the player not qualifying.

Colleges would need to recruit players that belong in college, not just football players who have a chance at qualifying.

Of course, with the provision that the scholarship can be re-used if the player graduates, I can see some schools managing to graduate a bunch of guys in 3 years. But the 25 and 85 LOI limits would prevent that from being exploited very much.

To me, this seemingly addresses most of the issues with oversigning. The major reason for the 85/25 limits was to stop schools from stocking up on players that wouldn't all see the field, benefiting the athletes and resulting in more parity among college teams.

If a guy plays football in a given season, and is on scholarship, he has to be counted as one of the 25/85. No academic scholarships should be allowed to stock extra football players. If a guy gets a legitimate medical hardship, he can stay on scholarship, but his LOI can't be freed up until the 4-year clock is up (or he graduates). It's just tough luck, but it's not another loophole to stash guys that aren't great players so they can be replaced with another warm body.

Some will say that this would harm guys that are marginal qualifiers. I think that more of them will end up at Sun Belt schools instead of the SEC, many of whose members would be forced to be more selective under the revised 85/25 LOI rules. That would also improve parity. Thus, I don't expect SEC Commissioner Mike Slive to support this proposal.

The intent of the original rules was to limit the number of players each team could take - those rules are being circumvented. Applying the limits to LOIs, rather than the way certain teams are allowed to exploit them, would restore the original intent of the scholarship limitations.

I like it. except the LOI should be freed up if a player is drafted into the NFL or a documented career ending injury.

 

[OSU_D/]

I like it. except the LOI should be freed up if a player is drafted into the NFL or a documented career ending injury.

Agreed! Bo didn't have to deal too much with losing players early.

I would like a hard cap of 85 with exceptions for medical reasons and NFL entry; my other solution is a 95 schollie hardcap in a 4 year period with no exceptions and only 85 scholership players on a roster at one time.

The exeption for medical reasons should go through a 3rd party verification process - no more of this Alabama "not good enough to play and minor injury = medical scholarship."

 

[BigWoof31]

Agreed! Bo didn't have to deal too much with losing players early.

I would like a hard cap of 85 with exceptions for medical reasons and NFL entry; my other solution is a 95 schollie hardcap in a 4 year period with no exceptions and only 85 scholership players on a roster at one time.

The exeption for medical reasons should go through a 3rd party verification process - no more of this Alabama "not good enough to play and minor injury = medical scholarship."

I would also like a clause inserted to allow the team to release a player and gain back the scholarship for criminal activity, drug abuse or academic misconduct.

 

[jwinslow]

I don't think teams should get the scholarship back for off field trouble. That will only accelerate the "kicked off for one minor off field issue" loophole for cutting dead weight.

I vote to give medical hardship scholarships to upperclassmen walk-ons.

 

[OSU_D/]

I don't think teams should get the scholarship back for off field trouble. That will only accelerate the "kicked off for one minor off field issue" loophole for cutting dead weight.

I vote to give medical hardship scholarships to upperclassmen walk-ons.

Exactly. I could see Saban, Miles, Spurrier, Nutt, Petrino all using that loophole. It's your fault if you recruit a bunch of kids that have drug and criminal issues under you.

I don't mean to be heartless in that last statement; I am all for 2nd (and some 3rd) chances as people don't always make the greatest decisions in college so long as we aren't talking murder, rape, etc.

 

[BigWoof31]

Exactly. I could see Saban, Miles, Spurrier, Nutt, Petrino all using that loophole. It's your fault if you recruit a bunch of kids that have drug and criminal issues under you.

I don't mean to be heartless in that last statement; I am all for 2nd (and some 3rd) chances as people don't always make the greatest decisions in college so long as we aren't talking murder, rape, etc.

To be clear - Ohio State would then be forced to forfeit the final years of Duron Carter's scholarship, even though he wasn't able to keep himself eligible and it wasn't the fault of the program/support staff?

I disagree with this because it provides absolutely zero leway for new coaching staffs to "Clean House" of problems created by the former staff. If the new coach is trying to remove the [Mark May]-heads recruited by the former coach (Muschamp, William) shouldn't he be given the opportunity to start by removing the trouble makers?

 

[jwinslow]

If "in trouble" lets you recoup the scholarship, then you can now dump the vast majority of players despite new oversigning and scholarship limitations.

Cut them for underage drinking. It would be too easy.

 

[Tlangs]

To be clear - Ohio State would then be forced to forfeit the final years of Duron Carter's scholarship, even though he wasn't able to keep himself eligible and it wasn't the fault of the program/support staff?

Yes, OSU should lose that scholarship for 3 years or until he enrolls in another D1 school. whichever is quicker.

 

[Jaxbuck]

I don't think teams should get the scholarship back for off field trouble. That will only accelerate the "kicked off for one minor off field issue" loophole for cutting dead weight.

I vote to give medical hardship scholarships to upperclassmen walk-ons.

I agree.

The graduate them in 4 years part though will accelerate academic improprieties. "I'm stuck with him for 4 years, by God he's staying eligible" etc etc etc

Bottom line is at some point you accept some people are going to try and game any system and just try to single them out and police it well.

I'd gladly take the hit for a Duron Carter if we could have Bo's system in place.

 

[jwinslow]

The graduate them in 4 years part though will accelerate academic improprieties. "I'm stuck with him for 4 years, by God he's staying eligible" etc etc etc

Well they're doing that already, so I don't really think that would change much.

I'd gladly take the hit for a Duron Carter if we could have Bo's system in place.

Yup.

 

[Gatorubet]

The solution is simple if the NCAA wants one. I believe Bo Schembechler proposed something like this many years ago.

When an LOI is signed, it would count as one of the 25 scholarships for that year. It cannot be reused until 4 years later, unless the player graduates. Also, only 85 LOIs can be received within any 4-year period.

Since the schools can only receive 25 LOIs in a given year, if the players don't qualify academically, that becomes the school's problem, and oversigning isn't an option to remedy the player not qualifying.

Colleges would need to recruit players that belong in college, not just football players who have a chance at qualifying.

Of course, with the provision that the scholarship can be re-used if the player graduates, I can see some schools managing to graduate a bunch of guys in 3 years. But the 25 and 85 LOI limits would prevent that from being exploited very much.

To me, this seemingly addresses most of the issues with oversigning. The major reason for the 85/25 limits was to stop schools from stocking up on players that wouldn't all see the field, benefiting the athletes and resulting in more parity among college teams.

If a guy plays football in a given season, and is on scholarship, he has to be counted as one of the 25/85. No academic scholarships should be allowed to stock extra football players. If a guy gets a legitimate medical hardship, he can stay on scholarship, but his LOI can't be freed up until the 4-year clock is up (or he graduates). It's just tough luck, but it's not another loophole to stash guys that aren't great players so they can be replaced with another warm body.

Some will say that this would harm guys that are marginal qualifiers. I think that more of them will end up at Sun Belt schools instead of the SEC, many of whose members would be forced to be more selective under the revised 85/25 LOI rules. That would also improve parity. Thus, I don't expect SEC Commissioner Mike Slive to support this proposal.

The intent of the original rules was to limit the number of players each team could take - those rules are being circumvented. Applying the limits to LOIs, rather than the way certain teams are allowed to exploit them, would restore the original intent of the scholarship limitations.

Bucket of fail.

To start with, the LOI does not mean they will actually enroll, actually qualify, actually stay in school, not withdraw, not quit, not go pro, or not get hurt.

The better rule would be to tighten up the relatively isolated misuse of gray shirts and red shirts. It would be simple to require written notification to the players of the possibility of not being included in the signing class 90 days before LOI day, and that a written promise by the program within 90 days that they are "in" has to be honored. If you do not meet notification rules, or oversign over your number after written notification that X number of players are accepted, you get a three scholly reduction for every violation over your number, and the oversigned kid has to wait a year to play, even though he counts against your total number immediately, and even though slots might open up later.

Make standard as part of the admission process an athlete's wavier of medical history confidentiality in favor of the conference, and let the conference review all red shirts outside of the conference team average, with triple scholly restrictions for any player found to be improperly let go.

If a few guys cheat in a gray area, you do not need to change the whole process, just the tighten the relatively small number of loopholes and punish the one who misuse the rules.

 

[jwinslow]

Make standard as part of the admission process an athlete's wavier of medical history confidentiality in favor of the conference, and let the conference review all red shirts outside of the conference team average, with triple scholly restrictions for any player found to be improperly let go.

That doesn't really fix the problem, though. Most jettisoned "medical casualties" have a true injury, they are just using that as an out when rehab (or playing through it) is a possibility, much like a coach who kicks out the benchwarmer for smoking weed when a starter would get 1-3 chances to redeem himself.

Give the scholarship to an upperclassmen walkon (perhaps a junior would be best). That way you can't bring in scholarship caliber kids as grayshirts/walkons with the expectation of benefitting from one of Saban's plentiful medical departures.

The school would recoup the scholarship in two years, help out an extra student athlete, but be unable to use that method to get mulligans on non-producing backups.

 

[Jaxbuck]

If a few guys cheat in a gray area, you do not need to change the whole process, just the tighten the relatively small number of loopholes and punish the one who misuse the rules.

for if you do, shouldn't you put the entire fraternity on trial?.............

 

[Gatorubet]

That doesn't really fix the problem, though. Most jettisoned "medical casualties" have a true injury, they are just using that as an out when rehab (or playing through it) is a possibility, much like a coach who kicks out the benchwarmer for smoking weed when a starter would get 1-3 chances to redeem himself.

Give the scholarship to an upperclassmen walkon (perhaps a junior would be best). That way you can't bring in scholarship caliber kids as grayshirts/walkons with the expectation of benefitting from one of Saban's plentiful medical departures.

The school would recoup the scholarship in two years, help out an extra student athlete, but be unable to use that method to get mulligans on non-producing backups.

OK. Then say that you have no more than one or two redshirts a year, and that number is the max whether you have a string of injuries or not. Simple, non-work aroundable.