Ohio State at Connecticut, noon, CBS, 12/12/15

[DZ83CK]

This is why folks saying this should be a hot seat year are comletely misguided. It wasn't long ago when even Izzo had several strings of garbage teams and fans wanted Izzo gone. One year they BARELY made the tournament by the skin of their teeth. Coach K had a string of mediocre to bad teams with several embarrassing exits. And that's at THE blue blood school. I just think Ohio State fans are completely unable to wrap their heads around the fact that this isn't a basketball school. I also think the frustrating thing about this current slide is that you can't tell if it's just a temporary blip ala Coach K at Duke or Izzo at MSU or if it's a permanent slide like Rick Barnes. At a blue blood you can just say "Fuck it" and fire the guy knowing you'll have coaches lined up. At a second tier school like OSU though? You risk potentially setting your program back to the pre-Thad days when a tournament birth was something you got on your knees and thanked God for.

OSU is "second tier"? Sorry, I don't agree whatsoever. You only need 5 guys to play at a time in college basketball, all the best teams rely on about 7 players, and the blue bloods routinely lose their best players to the draft so that serves to level the playing field at times. The talent pool is as huge and rich as ever, it is a sport where parity is very real and most any coach can build a winning program. They have a top-25 quality basketball program historically - and that was pre-Matta - if you are the coach at OSU and you don't have them in the top-25 at some point over a 4 or 5 year span, you probably deserve to be fired. I say that because I take issue with your patronizing views of OSU hoops, not because I want Matta fired.

A great coach can be extremely successful at OSU, don't forget O'Brien had 4 straight tournament appearances, and OSU has been among the last 16 teams in the tournament at least once every decade since it started in the 1930s. The coaches who made tournament appearances distant memories at OSU got canned, and deservedly so. Let's be honest, Matta is a good coach, but Izzo he is not. MSU and Wisconsin aren't any easier of places to coach compared to OSU, their coaches both have clearly pushed ahead of Matta over the last few years.

Izzo has never had "several strings of garbage teams" - they are notable for their consistency at making the F4 at least once every five years and have made the tourney every year for closing in on 20 seasons, and obviously Coach K's teams always make the tourney and almost always get very good seeds. You seem to believe some tourney teams are garbage teams, just not any of the ones Matta has had, because he's at lowly OSU, right? Suggesting fans wanted Izzo gone from MSU is ludicrous, and a red herring. Your inconsistent standards are a joke. Matta is a good coach, but he has been lackluster at finding talented prospects that aren't obvious stars, and lately his teams have not performed up to the level he had the program at before.

 

[Systems_id]

And what tier would you put OSU basketball in? Certainly not in the league of Kansas, Duke, UNC, UK, etc.

 

[daddyphatsacs]

Matta has given us spoiled fans probably the best 10 years this program has ever seen, and certainly the best stretch of time as a basketball program since the early 60s.

Like it or not, this is not Kentucky or Duke or UNC or Kansas....this is not a blue blood program. Sure the last couple years aren't quite what we're accustomed too, hence why I said spoiled fans.

I think Matta has earned the right to try to correct the issue. I do think we owe it to him, since he's not only been hugely successful while also graduating his players at a much improved rate AND his players have more or less stayed out of major trouble, to be patient and let it play out.

This. Thad Matta has earned the right to straighten things out. The guy has win 5 regular season Big Ten titles in over a decade. Enough said.

 

[Bestbuck36]

I just cant bring myself to say anything bad about Coach Matta. I love the guy and he's been an incredible Buckeye. I don't think he's over but he needs a shakeup in his assistants. He needs a real offensive mind to come aboard and teach these guys to actually play basketball, not out-athlete teams. They don't have a floor leader at all right now and that can be brushed off as youth but I just don't see any guys out there with fire in their bellies so to speak. There does seem to be a lack of confidence or spark or something but I'm not sure how it gets fixed as things are.

 

[Mike80]

It's meaningless and entirely subjective, but when it comes to college basketball, Ohio State is (and likely will be barring a true dynasty ala Dook/UNC/etc) a tier (or 2) below the basketball elite on a historical scale.

It means basically nothing going forward (and seems silly to worry about otherwise in my IMO). It is what it is....with the notable exception of a somewhat rare (pre-Matta) run in NCAAs, Ohio State has been basically irrelevant on the NCAA basketball scene from the early 60s until 2005/2006.

 

[Mike80]

This is why folks saying this should be a hot seat year are completely misguided. It wasn't long ago when even Izzo had several strings of garbage teams and fans wanted Izzo gone. One year they BARELY made the tournament by the skin of their teeth. Coach K had a string of mediocre to bad teams with several embarrassing exits. And that's at THE blue blood school. I just think Ohio State fans are completely unable to wrap their heads around the fact that this isn't a basketball school. I also think the frustrating thing about this current slide is that you can't tell if it's just a temporary blip ala Coach K at Duke or Izzo at MSU or if it's a permanent slide like Rick Barnes. At a blue blood you can just say "Fuck it" and fire the guy knowing you'll have coaches lined up. At a second tier school like OSU though? You risk potentially setting your program back to the pre-Thad days when a tournament birth was something you got on your knees and thanked God for.

I agree - especially the bolded part. Matta's success has spoiled people.

 

[Systems_id]

It's meaningless and entirely subjective, but when it comes to college basketball, Ohio State is (and likely will be barring a true dynasty ala Dook/UNC/etc) a tier (or 2) below the basketball elite on a historical scale.

It means basically nothing going forward (and seems silly to worry about otherwise in my IMO). It is what it is....with the notable exception of a somewhat rare (pre-Matta) run in NCAAs, Ohio State has been basically irrelevant on the NCAA basketball scene from the early 60s until 2005/2006.

Even IF Matta somehow won multiple NCs it probably wouldn't elevate the program to blue blood status. See Florida for proof. Billy Donavon won back-to-back NCs and still couldn't truly elevate Florida beyond tier 2 status. I don't think fans really fans care enough about basketball sadly. Not to the extent of football.

 

[RB07OSU]

Just watched this game on my DVR...this is going to be a really, really long year. This is about the sloppiest basketball I have ever watched. Not really just Ohio State basketball, but any basketball at the college level. And my perspective is using a Game 1 standard despite knowing this team is almost a month in. But on the plus side, I see nothing but improvement on the horizon. Thad tends to get some cohesion by the end of the year and I see talent, it is just raw and extremely disjointed right now.

In all reality, we maybe make the tournament this year but I really doubt it. We just need to chalk it up as a rebuilding year and try to develop some experience for the next year or so. If we recruit decent, I think we could be good in the next 1-2 years. There is enough talent and effort to be a good core at some point, it just won't be this year. Until then, we just need to take this team as it is and try to get good experience so we can build up for the 2016 season.

 

[CFPBuckeye]

You only need 5 guys to play at a time in college basketball, all the best teams rely on about 7 players, and the blue bloods routinely lose their best players to the draft so that serves to level the playing field at times.

I actually think that the one-and-done rule is the worst possible scenario for OSU. True, the blue bloods routinely lose their best guys to the draft, usually after one year. That then leads to the most talented graduating high school seniors flocking to those same schools to replace the guys who were lost to the draft. If you could jump straight to the pros, the most elite players would go pro instead of going to school and the talent pool left for colleges to choose from would be a little more even. If you had to stay in school for more than one year, then each year, some really talented prospects might choose to go to schools other than the blue bloods to get playing time instead of sitting behind last years elite signees that still have another year left to play.

 

[Hetuck]

Even IF Matta somehow won multiple NCs it probably wouldn't elevate the program to blue blood status. See Florida for proof. Billy Donavon won back-to-back NCs and still couldn't truly elevate Florida beyond tier 2 status. I don't think fans really fans care enough about basketball sadly. Not to the extent of football.

I must have missed the post(s) where anyone ever suggested that OSU should be a blue blood program. I think everyone would be perfectly happy with the kind of success Florida had winning two national championships without earning the coveted moniker "blue blood."

It is perfectly acceptable, imo, to hold a coach accountable to the standards he himself has set. Call him a victim of his own success if you want. What I saw yesterday made me long for the Jim O'Brien era. I'm all for giving Matta time to correct things, but not forever. The clock is ticking. This year's team is hot garbage and I have a hard time believing a Marc Loving-led Buckeye team is ever going to be a contender. If the Bucks don't look like they can compete for a B1G title in 2017-2018, I'll expect a change.

 

[Hetuck]

And what tier would you put OSU basketball in? Certainly not in the league of Kansas, Duke, UNC, UK, etc.

Where would you put Michigan and Wisconsin?

 

[Systems_id]

I must have missed the post(s) where anyone ever suggested that OSU should be a blue blood program. I think everyone would be perfectly happy with the kind of success Florida had winning two national championships without earning the coveted moniker "blue blood."

It is perfectly acceptable, imo, to hold a coach accountable to the standards he himself has set. Call him a victim of his own success if you want. What I saw yesterday made me long for the Jim O'Brien era. I'm all for giving Matta time to correct things, but not forever. The clock is ticking. This year's team is hot garbage and I have a hard time believing a Marc Loving-led Buckeye team is ever going to be a contender. If the Bucks don't look like they can compete for a B1G title in 2017-2018, I'll expect a change.

Not on this board, mind you, but I've heard plenty of people wondering why OSU isn't reloading like Kansas, UNC, etc.

If you seriously longed for the Jim O'Brien era then...I don't know what to tell you. Ass beatings like this were ROUTINE when he was coaching as well as losses to horrible teams.

 

[Systems_id]

Where would you put Michigan and Wisconsin?

The same tier? I'm not sure what your point is though.

 

[Steve19]

Where would you put Michigan and Wisconsin?

Given a free choice, I think at least half the board is going with this option...

 

[Mike80]

Even IF Matta somehow won multiple NCs it probably wouldn't elevate the program to blue blood status. See Florida for proof. Billy Donavon won back-to-back NCs and still couldn't truly elevate Florida beyond tier 2 status. I don't think fans really fans care enough about basketball sadly. Not to the extent of football.

Pretty much...